You seem to be saying that after picking an envelope I have to go from saying that there's a probability of 0.5 that I will pick the smaller envelope to saying that the probability is unknown that I have picked the smaller envelope. — Michael
But what action does your answer entail? Switching or sticking? If you say it doesn't matter, and so you're being indifferent, isn't that the same as treating it as equally likely that the other envelope contains the larger amount as the smaller amount? And if you're treating them as equally likely then isn't it rational to switch?
If you are using the principle of indifference then criticizing people for using the principle of indifference, that is hypocritical. Either accept that as a standard starting point or don't — Jeremiah
So you think you always have a 1.25 expected gain in every case? — Jeremiah
As far as I am concerned I already found the flaw. Take it or leave it, that is your choice. — Jeremiah
Hey, if you feel lucky then switch, if you think you are close to the cap don't, feel this one out, but you are not going to be able to quantify a positive gain based on the information we have. — Jeremiah
It is also rational to want ice-cream on a hot day. You still don't know anything about the distribution. You are speculating then trying to model your speculations. — Jeremiah
Statistics is a data science and uses repeated random events to make inference about an unknown distribution. We don't have repeated random events, we have one event. Seems like a clear divide to me. You can't learn much of anything about an unknown distribution with just one event. — Jeremiah
You don't know the distribution, you don't know the limits and you only get once chance to switch. — Jeremiah
You are no longer talking about just probability anymore, since you can now sample the distribution you are now engaged in statistics, which is outside the scope of the OP — Jeremiah
Actually only one case is true, while the other one does not exist. So they can't both be possible outcomes, not objectively. You are modeling your assumption of what you think is possible. However, just because you can think of something that doesn't mean it is objectively a possible outcome. — Jeremiah
The 1.25X come from considering expected gains over both cases, the larger and smaller. However when one case is true the other cannot be true, so it makes no sense to consider expected gains in this fashion. They should to be considered separately. — Jeremiah
Do you the the point or not? — Jeremiah
Never said any thing about both being actual at once. — Jeremiah
That is what I just did. The envelopes cannot be in both cases at once, therefore it makes no sense to hedge your expections that both cases are possible. — Jeremiah
And I am saying that doesn't really matter because it will always be amount A and amount B. — Jeremiah
See that was easy. — Jeremiah
I have two envelopes, one with amount A and one with amount B. I flip a fair coin to choose one. What is my chance of getting B? — Jeremiah
I think we are safe, I doubt anything will blow up. — Jeremiah
It absolutely can be ignored. — Jeremiah
The filling of the envelopes and the selecting of the envelopes are two separate events. — Jeremiah
Never said it was. — Jeremiah
If a loaded coin flips H 9 out 10 times, without that knowledge, an uninformative of 50/50 prior is completely justified. — Jeremiah
In this case, it's the fact that the Hotel has countably infinitely many rooms that enables the assumption of equiprobability to hold. — Pierre-Normand
I have a feeling though that Michael will still think that absent knowledge of the distribution, he can turn back to 50% as an assumption. — Srap Tasmaner
I recall they did. Then there was a very strong rumour that Snr. helped draft a statement about the meeting after the news of it broke, whilst on Air Force One. I think that is one of the subjects of the 'obstruction of justice' part of the investigation. — Wayfarer
I think I'm just reluctant to see the simple situation of choosing between two envelopes of different values in terms of the strange behavior of infinity. — Srap Tasmaner
I'm still confused. This makes it sound like the switching argument isn't fallacious -- it just makes an unwarranted assumption. So if every value of X were equally probable, then it would be true that you can expect a .25 gain from switching? I see how the math works, but if that's true, isn't it true whether you know the value of your envelope or not? And if that's true, isn't it also true for the other envelope as well? — Srap Tasmaner
Yes. But I think the OP is asking for a general solution for one run with no special assumptions about the context (such as whole dollar amounts or million dollar limits). — Andrew M
(...) To remove that option, I recast the problem with the envelopes containing IOUs rather than cash, for an amount that is a real number of cents, with an arbitrary but large number of decimal places shown. The amount is only rounded to the nearest cent (or dollar) when the IOU is cashed in. — andrewk
Yes. You learn something about the distribution when you open an envelope (namely, that it had an envelope with that seen amount). But not enough to calculate anything useful. It's like getting a bicycle with one wheel. You might wonder whether you could get somewhere with it, but you probably can't. — Andrew M
I did wonder -- maybe a week ago? it's somewhere in the thread -- if there isn't an inherent bias in the problem toward switching because of the space being bounded to the left, where the potential losses are also getting smaller and smaller, but unbounded to the right, where the potential gains keep getting bigger and bigger. — Srap Tasmaner
The argument is sound, so I probably won't spend any more time trying to figure out how to simulate knowing nothing about the sample space and its PDF. — Srap Tasmaner
But it is still false that you have an expected gain of 1/4 the value of your envelope. You really don't. All these justifications for assigning 50% to more possibilities than two envelopes can hold are mistaken. You picked from one pair of envelopes. This is the only pair that matters. You either have the bigger or the smaller. Trading the bigger is a loss, trading the smaller is a gain, and it's the same amount each way. — Srap Tasmaner
Sorry, I'm a bit confused by your response. Did you read me as saying "this isn't the same as"? — Michael
... Isn't this the same as: ... — Michael
If you right-click on a TeX formula and select 'Show Math As...' then 'TeX commands', then you can copy and paste the code for that in between ... — andrewk
So far so good. But we cannot do this:
— Srap Tasmaner
Random selection, which means equal probability, mitigates observational bias by treating each n in a population the same. — Jeremiah
1. If the player does not know the amount in the chosen envelope then the expected gain from switching is zero. — Andrew M
By this do you just mean that if we know that the value of X is to be chosen from a distribution of 1 - 100 then if we open our envelope to find 150 then we know not to switch? — Michael
