Never mind. *eyes roll forever*

"As Long as I can explain it, I can sound smart! AnD tHaT's All tHaT mATtERs."

So anything you can't explain is simply nonsense that doesn't matter. That's real productive. Have fun stagnating.

If a leaf had an identity it would effect it's choices and would impact where it ended up. What causes identity, though? How do I come to know that I'm "me?"

I never made a choice that imbued me with an identity. I just simply could realize that I was me. And something about the identity is immutable, regardless any choices I make.

Even if all of my choices are predetermined, they're still the choices I would make...the choices I did make. I know I, that is me, my identity, am playing an active roll. The future may be predetermined, but it is that way partially due to choices I am making.

That has nothing to do with the role our identity plays, though. It belongs to us, regardless of a block universe.

You don't own life.

There is more basis the more aware you are. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, people are too caught up in their lives - their future happiness - to glimpse the unseen.

We are living in a world dominated by practical people with no imagination, and that is not a good thing. Trust me, you don't know everything.

No. You gotta wake up sometimes. Solaris would turn your psyche into goo. You'd just be some anencephalic atrocity going from one dead fantasy to another. Life needs strife.

Once you have walked, you have always walked.

So far we haven't proven a cause, though there are theories that our actions are predetermined. I don't think so...I think individual identity is a wild card. I don't think it's really definable in philosophical or scientific terms. I wonder if particles have identities in some form.

Could human action in a large part be said to be the same, without a cause?

Yes it could change, but the same person would have to deal with it. There's only one continuous "me." I don't have multiple mes.

No, I guarantee you there is something in your pocket. Nothing can't "be" anywhere. It's main attribute is that it has no being.

It seems the more reasonable assumption would be to assume they come from something, since something is what exists and where they occur. They're not absolutely uncaused. They exist because reality exists. Reality already existing, it seems odd to me to say they simply occur for no reason at all. Or that they come from nothing.

It's not literally nothing causing these things. Nothing can't do anything, and they are one in the same as something.

Virtual particles obviously require something to exist. If none of this were here, there's no reason to assume they would be here either. I can just as easily claim they come from something as nothing, unless you can show me where nothing is on a map.

"They just appear," well, they're appearing in a reality there's no reason to assume they could exist independent of.

Imagination is more than just the ability to synthesize an object in the mind's eye. It is the ability to create fictitious scenarios that allow one to see a bigger picture as well. Sometimes it allows people to envision strange scenarios that happen to be true, like Einstein.

Identity is a sublime thing that transcends one's actions. Ultimately, we're stuck with one, unless we just slowly die emotionally. Otherwise, even in a thousand years, surely I'll still recognize that I'm me as opposed to everyone else. I'll still have a certain appearance, a certain attitude that, good or bad, will distinguish me from everything else.

I believe we are causes with effects, and those effects can't be entirely extrapolated from the cause. The identity is a dynamic thing, and exists in the subconscious world of everyone's being. Yes, I believe in an afterlife, because I believe no one lives a lie, which is what we're all doing.

Eventually we do experience a higher truth than the one we perceive in our waking hours. And the dead live on in the memory. If I have dreams of my dead mother, for instance, this is her maintaining to have an effect on me. How could it be any other way? I did not create my mother. I did not just imagine my mother.

So, all of us will continue to be causes that have effects long after our deaths. The unspoken truth of each of us will linger on in the subconscious, and communicate with the living, whether this be in revealing dreams or just in that subconscious world we aren't aware of when awake.

We're all aware of the subconscious, but for some reason seem to think there's not much we're not aware of. Become aware of more, and you'll have your answers.

It seems like the implicit argument here would then conclude that we all have the same grip on reality. There are no differences. The man who thinks he can fly on an acid trip and who dies when jumping off a highway overpass, is just as connected to reality as the person who avoids falling or jumping off high places. Even if the first guy wouldn't have wanted to die. He was surprised to be falling towards the highway and the trucks. — Coben

At no point is anyone not connected to reality. To be mistaken is not to be unreal.

No. It's some kind of paradox. Because of its truth it is made untrue.

There exists in reality the subconscious, and it is full of surprises.

Very true. And yet language is all we have. Anything that is beyond the realm of thought can't be articulated with thought (language) yet people have since ages tried to do just that. Why do think that is?
4h — Zeus

Just because people are inquisitive and get excited about their thoughts. It's just fun to think.

Unfortubately, ego is a factor for most people, too, and they refuse to accept the fact that they'll never be god, with all the answers. Anybody with a modicum of consideration realizes that reality is ultimately an ineffable mystery.

The idea that there's some grand purpose to life is false. It serves no ultimate use. However, being a part of the universe, it must be essential to its function. There is no reason to think reality could exist in the absence of life, as it only has ever existed in the presence of life. We know this simply because we are alive.

The question of whether life serves a purpose is the same as if the universe serves a purpose. To something outside of itself, no it does not. And human beings can't decide what purpose is.

I'll ignore you, too. Nothing but a pretentious nag.

"Language is insufficient for describing reality."

"BuT youR uSINg LaNgUAgE!"

And I still maintain that I don't know anything. Everything is relative. Am I speaking to you or your idealized version of you? I don't know.

It's not nihilism. It's simply the truth. Not lying to people and telling them they're absolute geniuses capable of implicitly understanding everything isn't nihilism.

I absolutely do not function with complete understanding of objective reality. I don't know what language is, how exactly the style and nuances of the English language were formed, or why. I don't know if it is an absolutely effective form if communication. I don't know why or how or if it is more effective than French, or how the French people's human experience is different on account of their language.

There is literally so much about language I can't be objective about. It may be objectively true that we're speaking a language, but what does that tell us? That all of reality can be objectively understood? When we can't even posit any insights into the language we're speaking?

I'm not saying we know nothing. We know reality implicitly. But there's a difference between knowledge and understanding.

Do you have any points that aren't moot?

I don't know what English is, exactly. Neither do you. Simply calling our mode of communication "English" explains nothing.

I've explained twice now that I believe in an objective reality we know little about. I won't explain that again. Are we using English? Well, I think I have higher standards of what it is than you do.

No, I don't. And if you really think about it, neither do you. Tell me the nature of language, the nature of the atom, and the nature of reality, and I might agree with you. All we understand is the bare face of completely abstract concepts.

I think it's virtually meaningless to speak of a physical world when we don't know what the physical world is. And again, I can just as easily claim that matter is how mind happens to seem.

What we know is that nothing is concrete. Everything is in flux, in motion, changing from one moment to the next. And to me this has more in common with a dream than a concrete physical reality.

It isn't. Understanding implies language. Language isn't the nature of direct experience. All we can do is try to understand via descriptions of our experience, but the descriptions never suffice. Certainly not so they could be a meaningful substitute for the experience itself.

I can tell you the rain felt wet, and obviously you know this is no substitute for dancing in a downpour.

As often as language helps us understand, it is a distraction from the truth.

Like I think I said in my first post, though, I think we just need to be careful about how far we take it...how much we take for granted.

I can't experience others' awareness firsthand, but I think it's reasonable to believe in them. And it's important to not take them for granted. If it rains, we all know it's raining, but it's a big step to then assume you know what the essential nature of water is. We don't even have a comprehensive scientific understanding of what matter is.

It may be the root of all faith. We're forced to make assumptions by our very nature.

I said I believe in an objective reality. I can't prove the existence of one. No one can.

He's trying to imply that because we can be objective about knowing little, we can be objective about knowing a lot, which obviously makes no sense.

And like I said, I believe in an objective reality we know next to nothing about. To say that it's an objective truth that we know little about reality isn't self-defeating.

They'd care if I had enough money. And whether they cared or not wouldn't determine the truth of the statement. There are literally a million truths no one cares about.