Again there is no "movement" of subjective experience from one moment to the next under a block universe with no flow of time, which is what you're talking about in your OP.

If you want there to be such "movement" then you'll have to introduce some notion of dynamic passage with which to make sense of it. Combined with a block universe model then you're probably referring to something like the moving spotlight view of time, which isn't a static B-theory of time, but a part of the class of tensed theories of time known collectively as the A-theory of time.

What exactly is a "layer" here? Do you mean like a difference of scale, like the difference between the microscopic quantum realm and the macroscopic world that we inhabit, or something more like parallel dimensions?

I guess there are a number of different ways to respond to this. If by "infinitely complex" you mean something like space and time being infinitely divisible then I would buy into that as it seems to be our traditional way of understanding things. On the other hand if you mean that there are infinitely many layers to the constitution of what we call matter then that's more of an open question.

Eh, I don't think he'd succeed anyways but do you think he's gonna try one what with his sudden firings of Pentagon officials? Personally I'd find it hilarious if he did that as a last resort (though I'd imagine it would be terrifying for people who care about the future of the country). I don't know much about coups but I'm pretty sure scrambling to put one together in a few weeks after losing an election is not how to do one.

Yep.

But you have a subjective experience of "flow", what will happens when it ends? — Philosophuser

It doesn't. If your current experience consists of just a single instance of time where you feel like things are passing then that doesn't change, any more than the universe will.

Of course this is assuming that this feeling of the passage of time is one that is compatible with Eternalism and it's debatable whether or not it is. Some believe that this feeling can be captured through the way the brain processes temporal experiences while others may perhaps argue that the very experience of passage necessarily includes change and thus would mean that the static block universe is false. Depending on which side you fall on, well there's your answer.

Your experience of it is supposed to be an ilusion, like the photograms in a film, because you have memories, but... At the point of your death, will you restart again experiencing your whole life? — Philosophuser

Not at all. You seem to be implying that we are experiencing our lives like watching a video on loop but the block universe doesn't say that at all. In fact it would seem, under your definition, be incompatible with it because that would require our experience dynamically change as one "moves" through a block universe.

Under the block universe of Eternalism, your experience is static and thus you are sort of trapped in subjective world of what you're currently experiencing. There isn't a fact to what you did experience or what you will experience, just as much as there isn't a fact as to what there was or will be in the block universe itself. Every moment just is.

Hopefully you can help deliver the Senate to the Dems and keep McConnell out of power. The fate of any stimulus rests on flipping both Georgia seats.

Also the stock market rose upon the news of a divided and thus ineffectual congress. Really tells you about the class divides in the country when the rich find the poor not getting stimulus "acceptable".

Huh, close to what I was saying. Again, even if he's going out the door we shouldn't rest easy cause Trump could cause alot of damage to the people around him. If there wasn't a runoff election that would basically decide the fate of the GOP Senate then McConnell would've probably thrown Trump under the bus by now.

I feel like we're at that point in a horror film where the monster gets defeated but spends the next twenty minutes dying on screen and taking some people down with him.

Just another reminder of how impatient we Americans are I guess. We just can't wait until the votes have actually been counted. — Hippyhead

I'm pretty sure that alot of non-Americans were impatient with the results as well, myself included. The electoral college system, the fact that the mail-in votes were not allowed to be counted in some states (like Pennsylvania) because Republicans made it that way but was in others (like Florida), and the fact that the media chose not to call the race earlier to seemingly get more ratings out of the story infuriated the hell out of me and kept me from sleeping for a week. Hopefully I don't ever have to follow another one of these elections again.

It's odd because most people choose the candidate that they believe will result in policies they prefer, not just because they like the person's style. — Relativist

Not true at all. Most people didn't pick Biden in the primaries because they liked him, but because they thought he was "electable" and most people picked him in the general because he wasn't Trump. They made their decision not based on what they want, but on what they thought other people want.

It’s great to celebrate the end of Trump, but it’s wise to actually hold Biden’s feet to the fire and let him know that merely not being Trump is not good enough, he needs to get on with actually fixing things and fast — plus, as Crank says, there’s a lot of things that simply aren’t in his direct power to fix. — Pfhorrest

If the GOP hold the senate then that may just be impossible. The only things that could change are matters related to foreign policy since the president doesn't have to go through the courts or congress. Biden would get the US back to the Paris Accord and get a new Iran Nuclear Deal, but domestically? It all comes down to how Georgia's runoffs play really.

America's in a really dark place even if the Democrats have complete control so although the world is able to breathe a sigh of relief the Americans will continue to suffer.

Fox News have started to behave themselves and I think the majority of Trump voters are accepting this defeat gracefully. The positive side of the American spirit is winning through here. — Baden

Oh just wait until Biden gets into office where they'll go from downplaying 200K deaths to complaining about a man's condiment preferences.

What if they run again with Trump in 2024? — ssu

The establishment would probably want Trump to go away and as for the voters, I dunno really. They may drop him like they did Roy Moore in Alabama. Ideally Trump would still hold on to a good chunk of the GOP base but not all of it, fracturing it's unity in the next election.

True, but there is a history of people ultimately settling on the default choice even after a primary. Alot of the candidates for both parties are often former vice presidents, including this one, but hopefully that won't be the case next time and that the candidate for the Democrats actually gets the nomination based on a winning inspiring message and not their connections to other presidents.

A sneak peak at the horrible future awaiting the US in 2024. Of course it's really early, but some of the "default" choices are hilarious. I can't wait to see Trump's son face off against Obama's wife. It'll be Donald Trump v. Obama but not exactly

Just woke up to Biden taking the lead in PA and the presidency and now I can sleep for the first time in 4 years.

I honestly don't think the majority of GOP politicians care about any of that. — boethius

I'm pretty sure they do, especially if you're Cruz, McCain, or Sessions. The establishment GOP live in a bubble away from the troubles of the middle class, but it's a bubble full of rich and powerful people like them. If you insult one of their buddies then they'll care.

Trump got the tax cuts passed, military budget increased, and the areas worst affected by the pandemic increased their loyalty and support. — boethius

Literally any other Republican would pass tax cuts and further fund the military (heck even some Democrats would do the latter too). As for the pandemic, polls showed that the places most affected by the pandemic saw a decrease in Trump support. Then again, that may not mean much since polls have shown themselves to be quite unreliable in the age of Trump.

The liberal media makes a big thing about any GOP politician slightly criticizing Trump or announcing principles in obvious contradiction to Trump, but this is a small quantity and all those politicians bend the knee to Trump in the end, or then basically disappear. All GOP senators bent the knee and voted to acquit Trump. — boethius

They bent the knee because their political careers are on the line. Trump was still president and they were about to have an election back when they acquitted him. Those elections already happened now and Trump looks like he's about to head for the exit so the situation is different.

I mean I guess not every election since the Georgia senate race is going to a runoff. Would be interesting to see whether the senators there side with Trump in dismantling democracy or try to disassociate themselves with him. Either move could cost them, helping the Democrats in January if they manage to keep their enthusiasm up. Like I said in my post above, there's a really big opportunity for the Democrats to actually put pressure on the SCOTUS and the Senate in the lame duck since the runoff is in January.

Yes, but who? — boethius

McConnell's been distancing himself from Trump for a while now since he expects him to lose. He criticized his lax safety measures in the White House when he got COVID and he and the rest of the Senate were adamantly against the big stimulus package that he and Pelosi were negotiating, instead drawing the line at $500 Billion when Trump is asking for $1.8 Trillion. Trump's been losing his grip on his party for a while now and he's too unhinged in order to realize it.

Georgia's not out of the woods yet even after this election. They're gonna have to deal with the runoff elections which could decide the fate of the Senate and also potential stimulus.

I originally thought that a Republican Senate and a Democratic president would completely destroy any hopes for a stimulus package but perhaps there is a chance after all of one passing if the Democrats message themselves right. They need to make it clear that the GOP are gonna prevent any sort of stimulus package from happening if they lose these senate seats and demonstrate the catastrophic effects of inaction on the economy. Who knows, perhaps this would actually put pressure on the GOP to pass something in the lame duck, in which case awesome, but it's more likely that Trump and McConnell would not be interested and the Democrats need to point to that as proof of what they're saying. And if the SCOTUS decides to dismantle the ACA then point that out too. Make the two Georgia senators who'd rather vote for a judge then help the American people pay up for their actions. The runoff election is gonna happen in January so the Democrats better start dumping their excess campaign money into that state now.

I doubt they personally despise him, he makes them rich. — boethius

So does work, but that doesn't mean you necessarily love it. Remember, Trump disrespected John McCain's military service, insulted Ted Cruz's wife, and destroyed Session's (the first GOP congressman to actually endorse him in 2016) political career for doing his job. I'm pretty sure all of them would shed as many tears for his death as Trump would for Herman Cain.

I think they doubted Trumpism could work, but the fact that it does brings them significant pleasure. — boethius

Not if they're trying to distance themselves from Trump. In that case, they just turned a huge chunk of their party against them. Personally I think they're afraid of them and how easily they can turn on them if their dear leader happens to not feel good about them one day and sends out a bad tweet. Understand that they're not loyal to them, but to a guy who contradicts himself every other day.

So far, I only see republican's criticise Trump whom Trump threw under the bus and humiliated, so understandable but potentially pre-mature. — boethius

Well, some Republicans are backing away from his current claims of voter fraud. Sounds like they're not gonna back him if he loses.

Georgia finally flipped. Biden up by 1K.

I agree that this seems like the case. But we've seen the GOP posture to drop Trump before and then suddenly the ranks close and any remaining dissenters are sidelined.

So we could see a turn around on this due to leverage Trump has, or it's simply the right pretext hasn't been found yet. When it is found the base will rally around it and the GOP will go along for the reason you state. — boethius

I imagine their calculation is that since Trump is no longer gonna be president, then he's gonna lose the influence he has. As I said before I don't think that's exactly true since Trumpism is gonna stick around to terrorize us all, but if there's any time to dump Trump it would be immediately after an election where you have about 2 years to hope people forget about it.

I kind of wonder if the GOP leadership would get behind jailing Trump if he gets convicted after leaving office. You know, just to ensure he doesn't continue to bash the party that abandoned him through Trump TV or run again in 2024. With the exception of pathetic asskissers like Graham, I bet alot of them personally despise him anyways.

Maybe we'll get lucky, and Trump will spur a split in the Republican party; if the Republicans won't have him back, he might run on his own platform, and take a big chunk of the Republican vote with him. — Pfhorrest

Hopefully but right now that split seems to be mainly between leadership and the voters themselves, much like the Democratic party. It's clear that most of the GOP base adore Trump for some reason, but the establishment Republicans certainly don't and would want to move on from him. If they try to disassociate themselves from him, then that may hurt them in future elections but I don't know really.

Jeez just flip already. It almost feels like the media and the states counting the votes are intentionally withholding their results because they know that if they were the ones who called the race then they will be the target of Trump and his violent supporters. Otherwise Fox and AP would've called NV and the election already (since they already called AZ for Biden).

I agree that currently the remaining vote looks like it will put Biden over the top barring some last minute surprise, but with regards to your point about the SCOTUS, it looks like it's becoming increasingly unlikely since the GOP looks set to drop Trump like a rock so they may not think it worth it to keep him.

Then again, this election did show that alot of the electorate, including a large portion of Republicans, still value Trumpism, so it does put the future identity of the party into question. Trump is gonna remember who abandoned him this election cycle and he may throw a wrench into the party's plans to go back to the Romney-type politicians. And honestly I'd say the same uncertainty applies to the Democrats as well, since even if they do win they almost lost to an idiot reality TV show host (again) so perhaps they should do some soul searching too. In a way, 2020 is just 2012 all over again with 2024 being a change year like 2016, but hopefully next time, it won't end up the same way.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I honestly don't believe there is meaningful elections fraud, but I do wonder what makes this process so protracted. Other than in Alaska where they have to dogsled ballots from remote villages, I'm not sure why it takes so long to do things in Atlanta. — Hanover

It's not just Georgia. We're also waiting on a bunch of other states. As for why the election laws are made this way? Apparently the GOP legislatures in these states made it so that people can't count the ballots prior to the election when they're received, forcing this slow and agonizing process where Trump can question the results. And oddly enough it's the right that also chooses to protest and either call for the votes to be counted faster (in states where Biden is leading) or stop them (in states where Trump is), on top of the multiple lawsuits that they have sent to the courts as well, hampering the counting process even further. Just another one of the ways which Republicans complicate the election system.

Given how close the race is, then there seems to be a shot at the Democrats winning the Senate as well since it seems like the voter base is there. If the SCOTUS overrules the ACA following the election then hopefully that will send a clear message to turn out in the special election. It's a longshot though but Georgia for Biden was also a longshot as well.

Georgia is going to Trump, — Benkei

It's close so I wouldn't call it out. Trump's lead has dwindled to 13K and alot of the remaining votes are in blue counties including Atlanta. It seems likely that there will be a recount and that's not even getting into the Senate runoffs. Georgia is tight.

Yes, I agree that there could be a large bias towards Biden, and lot's of simple models can be made showing Biden likely will win.

But the problem with those simple models is that it's too easy to miss something in which case, it's "oh, yeah, well didn't think about that" or "well, didn't think these votes would lean Trump". — boethius

Although there's always the possibility for a late surprise, most election analysts are pretty good at forecasting votes from certain demographics based on the remaining vote. Alot of the remaining vote is from urban areas and are mail-in. Thus far in this election alone, they've been heavily democratic,

Nope, but I can do research on what elections were like back then.

All of the things you listed (with the exception of Civil Rights) are problems facing America as a nation, not problems with America as a nation. Alot of the problems, the divisiveness, the corruption of congress, the tainted judicial system, the distrust of the media, etc. are not ones that can easily be fixed. I don't think that the country was as divided as it is now, at least not politically. If you look at the electoral maps from back then then you can see that every state was a swing state. Nowadays, despite everything that happened, you're still talking about a close race decided on very narrow margins in a few states. Heck, we're still waiting on the final results now.

What about the sixties was so bad?

But tricking people into thinking you've won doesn't serve any purpose in itself, since the vote goes on and the actual result will get declared anyway. The obvious interpretation would be that the false claimant is a lying scumbug. — Kenosha Kid

Well Trump's gonna contest the results in with his 6-3 SCOTUS and hopes they're as eager to dismantle democracy as he is. If enough people think he actually won then he thinks he could get away with it.

What is the thinking behind falsely declaring election victories? Is it just to lay the groundwork for false accusations of voter fraud? — Kenosha Kid

Pretty much. As a guy who is all about optics, Trump wants to control the narrative and thinks that if he just proclaims victory enough, people would think he's won.

I would say that this is a scummy GOP tactic, but Democrats also do it too. Just look back at Iowa and Mayor Pete. Good times.

I guess one bright spot in all of this is that even if Biden wins the establishment Dems can no longer claim that Trump is some sort of anomaly and that centrist incrementalism is still popular. They nearly lost to a guy who killed 200K lives through sheer incompetence, twice, and underperformed with minorities and the working class this year. That should give them pause and perhaps lead them to considering actually going more populist for once. Of course leadership may blame Bernie again and claim that they need to pivot further right, but hopefully the democratic voters who picked Biden purely based on him being the "electable" candidate are gonna reevaluate next time. Hopefully Biden doesn't run for a second term if he wins (though given his age, I honestly don't think he will).

And... the protests to stop the vote counting in the rust belt has begun. Trump suing to stop the count in PA and declaring victory early.

I think NC is still in play and may be more likely than PA (which is looking good for Biden as well), but apparently some people are writing it off.

Seriously I just want one candidate to reach 270 so I can relax already...

Pretty sure all eyes are still on PA at this point, but if Biden wins AZ, GA, or NV then it would end early. WI is called for Biden and MI is looking like he's gonna eek it out as of the time of this post.

You're right that Biden or Trump winning would just maintain the broken status quo. Disagree with climate change though since that's a global problem and not just a problem for the US to fix (which given the judgement of their people is probably a good thing). COVID has exposed alot of America's problems and Biden is NOT gonna fix them. Big corporations are bailed out with trillions (again) and meanwhile Pelosi and McConnell couldn't care less about helping out everyone else.

It will survive. — ssu

Not too sure about that. Given the current economic situation and the fact that any sort of huge stimulus is pretty much dead, along with the likelihood of post election violence in a middle of a pandemic, it feels like something has to break.