Comments

  • The Musk Plutocracy
    Musk's USAID Cuts - Where The Rubber Doesn't Meet the Road

    Three days after the Myanmar quake, there are no U.S. teams on the ground in Myanmar, a stark illustration of how Trump has upended America’s role in disaster response.

    Hours after a 7.7-magnitude earthquake devastated Myanmar on Friday, sending dangerous tremors across Southeast Asia, the American officials charged with responding to the disaster received their termination letters from Washington.

    Most of the personnel who would have made up a U.S. response team, including security and sanitation experts, were already on indefinite leave. Many of the U.S. programs that would have provided lifesaving materials, including fuel for ambulances and medical kits, were shuttered weeks ago. U.S. planes and helicopters in nearby Thailand, which have been used before for disaster relief, never made it off the ground.

    America’s response to the catastrophic earthquake has been crippled by the Trump administration’s sweeping cuts to the U.S. Agency for International Development, according to eight current and former USAID employees who worked on Myanmar, as well as former State Department officials and leaders of international aid agencies. Three days after the disaster, American teams have yet to be deployed to the quake zone — a marked contrast with other similar catastrophes, when U.S. personnel were on the ground within hours.

    The Trump administration has promised $2 million in aid, saying, “The United States stands with the people of Myanmar as they work to recover from the devastation.” But distributing this relief will be more difficult than ever, USAID officials said, because the U.S. has severed valuable ties with local organizations and fired staff who could have restored relationships. The U.S. commitment so far has also been dwarfed by the $13.7 million pledged by China, which borders Myanmar and is one of the few remaining allies of its military junta.

    The situation unfolding in Myanmar, which has been battered by years of civil war and was the biggest recipient of U.S. aid in Southeast Asia last year, is the clearest demonstration to date of how Elon Musk’s U.S. DOGE Service has upended the global aid system — allowing Beijing and other rival powers to take the lead in providing relief.

    “This is what the world looks like when the U.S. is not a leadership role,” said Chris Milligan, who served as USAID’s top civilian official until he retired in 2021 and was USAID’s top official in Myanmar under President Barack Obama. “Other countries have mobilized, and we have not, and that’s because we have shut down parts of the U.S. government that have the capability to respond.”
    USAID cuts cripple American response to Myanmar earthquake
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    I wouldn’t disagree. Or merge it.
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    Trump as a threat to democracy...philosch

    President Donald Trump on Sunday declined to rule out seeking a third presidential term — an unconstitutional act explicitly barred under the 22nd Amendment — saying that “there are methods which you could do it.”

    In a phone interview with NBC News’s Kristen Welker, Trump suggested that multiple plans have begun to circulate for him to run for a third term. He pointed to unspecified polling as an indicator of his popularity and claimed he had the “highest poll numbers of any Republican for the last 100 years.”

    “A lot of people want me to do it,” Trump said.
    — WP


    I suppose Trump is free to lie, it's not illegal; it becomes a problem when lots of people (always) trust his word more than "mainstream media" or whatever.jorndoe

    :roll:
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    Take this statement as you right it: That means 1500 people beat cops. That's just absurd.philosch

    I said '1500 odd felons who had among other things beaten police with fire extinguishers and flag poles.' Which is fact.

    I think Jan 6 was an unfortunate riot that got out of hand but was no worse than any of the other 500 or so riots the previous summer.philosch

    This is classic 'whataboutism'. 'What about all the other riots'? Well, the other riots were not held to disrupt the transfer of Presidential power nor did they result in the desecration of the US Capital Building. Rioters were chanting Hang Mike Pence, and assembled a mock gallows, as depicted in the photo I showed. Seven people died as a consequence of the actions of that day.

    Certainly not an insurrection as no one was even charged with that crime.philosch

    As of January 20, 2025, 1,575 people were charged in connection with the January 6 attack. The FBI has estimated that around 2,000 people took part in criminal acts at the event. The two Oath Keepers leaders were convicted of Seditious Conspiracy. Others were convicted of various felonies. It met the definition of insurrection 'a violent uprising against an authority or government'.

    Trump is on record of asking his followers to protest peacefully which was their right

    As Mitch McConnell said on the US Senate Floor after the event '“The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people. And they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like.” More's the pity he didn't follow through and convict after the second impeachment, it would have put an end to all this nonsense before it took root again.

    When Biden got elected I was pretty down as I could easily see he was weak and mentally incompetent. But I didn't panic.philosch

    Biden left the US economy in much better shape than it is ever going to be under Trump. All the signs are that recession is imminent, unemployment is growing, and inflation rising. There is not a single reputable economist who will support the Tarrif War, with most of them warning it is going to cause profound economic disclocation.

    Trump as a threat to democracy because you don't like his policies are just ridiculous hyperbolic statements that are not based in factphilosch

    I never compared Trump to nazism, that is a total red herring. But Trump's threats to democracy are real and documented. Just some examples from the last few weeks:

    * Extensive use of so-called 'executive actions', amounting to 'rule by decree', many of which are subject to legal action, as per the previous list.
    * threatening of law firms who were associated with January 6th prosecutions or investigations into Trump by banning them from Government contracts and revoking of security clearances.
    * withholding and withdrawing constitutionally-approved funds for all kinds of agencies and programs in defiance of the Congressional 'power of the purse'
    * firing of Department Inspectors General in defiance of the constitutional requirement for 30 days notice and adequate grounds for dismissal (also making it much harder to detect the 'fraud and waste' that Trump keeps bleating about, as that is what they are appointed to monitor)
    *rounding up and illegally deporting immigrants with no hearing or opportunity for them to present a defense.

    There are more examples. Trump makes no secret of his desire for absolute personal loyalty to him over the Constitution. He shows no interest in or respect for the principles of constitutional democracy.

    Funny that you state the 60 lawsuits brought by Trump agents did not demonstrate that Joe Biden's administration was a threat to democracy but the 50 lawsuits brought by Trump opponents demonstrate he is a threat to democracy.philosch

    The '60 lawsuits' (actually 62) in the first instance, were brought by Rudy Guiliani, Sidney Powell, and a cohort of other lawyers on the fallacious grounds that the Electoral College count for the 2020 election were somehow corrupted or false. Remember Guiliani's hysterics about having 'absolute proof' of electoral fraud? Every one of those cases was dismissed. Remember the ridiculous lies about Dominion Voting Systems? And the fact that Fox News paid the largest-ever settlement in legal history for propogating those lies.

    The current 50-odd lawsuits against Trump's executive actions have been, by contrast, lodged by all kinds of parties, against the perceived unconstitutionality and illegal nature of some of Trump's executive actions, and they are having an effect. Musk and Trump are now saying that judges who oppose Trump's orders ought to be impeached - another example of his threat to democracy and contempt for the rule of law.

    Now let me ask you, what do you think of people destroying Tesla's and fire bombing dealerships?philosch

    Dreadful. Absolutely reprehensible and should be punished to the maximum extent of the law. There's only one means of protest against Tesla required, and it is perfectly legal: don't buy one.
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    How to characterize this aspect of those people?jorndoe

    It truly is an alternative reality. Some of the apologists for Trump on the Forum seem quite earnest, and pained as to why critics (like myself) are so hostile. I guess you will find many analyses of the social and political dynamics behind it if you searched for them. But I think, philosophically speaking, it is something like 'false consciousness':

    In Marxist theory, 'false consciousness' refers to a distorted understanding of social reality, especially by members of the working class, that prevents them from recognizing their true interests. It’s a way of describing how ideology—the dominant ideas of a society—can mask the real conditions of exploitation under capitalism.

    The term itself was popularized not by Marx himself but by later Marxists such as Engels and thinkers from the Frankfurt School. It describes how people may come to accept the values and interests of the ruling class (bourgeoisie) as if they were their own.

    For example, a worker who believes that capitalism is fair because “anyone can make it if they work hard enough” may be said to be under the spell of false consciousness.

    Likewise, many disillusioned with politics as usual seem willing to believe that Trump will improve the economy or their lives, presumably because he's so good at appealing to their fears and depicting himself as a 'victim' of 'the establishment'. They fall for it over and over. It has been dissappointing in the extreme to see it.

    The other point is, Trump is purging the Government and Administration of anyone who would challenge his false claims. Would-be employees are subjected to scrutiny to see if they have any record of criticizing Trump or MAGA before being hired. He's hand-picked only people who will agree with him that the 2020 election was stolen. He's excluding independent media from the WH press pool, and so on. He's really worked at creating an 'alternative reality' in which most of the media and the news it reports can be dismissed as 'fake'. And his voters believe it.

    One example would be male transgender athletes not allowed in women sports.philosch

    As it happens, that is one subject where I agree with the conservatives. I think the Left's fixation with trans rights is one area where they've lost a lot of the electorate (not that it's an argument I want to pursue.)

    //

    Comment on a YT video about Musk:

    "I cannot tell a lie" - George Washington
    "I cannot tell the truth" - Donald Trump
    "I cannot tell the difference" - MAGA

    //
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    Again, I normally try to ignore PoliticsGnomon

    Based on what you've said here, a sound practice.
  • The proof that there is no magic
    What Sokrates means by "higher order" is what I mean by "level of detail".Quk

    He doesn't. Detail is not the same as an explanatory principle. The higher order is more like a framework of explanation.

    There's a philosophical point that I think you're sensing, but not describing very well. I agree that 'explanations don't go all the way down'. But there needs to be some clarity as to what constitutes a real explanation, as distinct from just hand-waving about 'magic'. Science and technology and much else besides relies on being able to discern cause and effect relations. But then there are also 'why is it so?' questions that can't be easily answered.

    One way to say it might be that when the cause and effect are specific in nature, then the question is narrow enough to answer. But the more general the question, the more difficult it becomes. A falling apple accelerates at a given rate described by Newton's laws. But what is a 'scientific law' is a much bigger question than 'why does the apple accelerate at that rate'. That may be a good starting point - then you're getting into philosophy of science, which has long grappled with these questions.
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    What you have said above is ridiculous propagandizing and not worth any further discussion.philosch

    I feel the same about what you're saying, but in this matter there are not two sides to the story. That Trump lies repeatedly and is a threat to democracy is not a matter of opinion, but of fact. You've stated your view, others can make up their own mind.

    Although I do have one question: what is your view of the Jan 6th riot? Do you think that was justified? That it's been exagerrated by 'the liberal media'? That it was really a peaceful demonstration?
  • The proof that there is no magic
    How detailed must an answer be in order to be an explanation rather than a description?Quk

    It's not a matter of detail alone. In Greek philosophy, the issue is phrased in terms of explanans and explanandum. In the Phaedo, for example, Socrates argues that knowledge requires a method of inquiry that moves from the known to the unknown. He suggests that in order to explain a particular phenomenon, one must have knowledge of a more general principle or cause that underlies it. Socrates refers to this more general principle as the "cause" or "explanans," and the particular phenomenon as the "effect" or "explanandum."

    Socrates asserts that the explanans must be of a higher order than the explanandum, because it is the more general principle that explains why the particular phenomenon occurs. He uses the example of how we explain why a lyre produces sound. Socrates argues that the explanans for why a lyre produces sound is not simply that the lyre is made of wood and strings, but rather that it is in the nature of harmony and discord to produce sound. (Of course, we now understand that it is the effect of the vibrating string on the sorrounding air which generate what we understand as sound waves.)

    Thus, the explanans (the nature of harmony and discord) is of a higher order than the explanandum (the sound produced by the lyre).

    This idea that the explanans must be of a higher order than the explanandum is sometimes referred to as the "Principle of Proportionate Causality" or the "Principle of Adequacy." It is a basic principle of many philosophical and scientific theories of explanation.

    In later philosophy, David Hume famously cast doubt on the trustworthiness of inductive reasoning - reasoning from effect to cause. He argued that whilst we can give plausible reasons for why an effect follows from a cause, we can't discern a real basis to those causal relationships with the same degree of certainty we can discern in logical relationships. That was the point that was taken up by Immaneuel Kant in his famous 'answer to Hume'.
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    once again a very reasonable and interesting post,philosch

    It's significant that the only contributions you're calling out are Gnomon's which have neither any reference to or connection with what is actually happening but are waffling about political philosophy. And that NIH paper is about colonizing Mars while the real issue confronting the NIH at this moment, is the cancellation of hundreds of millions of dollars worth of grants on ideological or political grounds.

    The US National Institutes of Health (NIH) and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) have begun cancelling billions of dollars in funding for research related to COVID-19.

    COVID-19 research funds “were issued for a limited purpose: to ameliorate the effects of the pandemic”, according to an internal NIH document that Nature has obtained and that provides the agency’s staff members with updated guidance on how to terminate these grants. “Now that the pandemic is over, the grant funds are no longer necessary,” the document states. It is not clear how many of these grants will be ended.

    ‘Boggles the mind’: US defence department slashes research on emerging threats

    The crackdown comes as the NIH, under US President Donald Trump, has halted nearly 400 grants in the past month. An earlier version of the documents, obtained by Nature on 5 March, directed staff to identify and potentially cancel projects on transgender populations; gender identity; diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in the scientific workforce; and environmental justice.

    The NIH, which is the world’s largest public funder of biomedical research, has awarded grants to nearly 600 ongoing projects that include ‘COVID’ in the title, worth nearly US$850 million. Together, these projects make up nearly 2% of the NIH’s $47-billion budget. And the CDC plans to cancel $11.4 billion in funds for pandemic response, NBC News reports.

    That is from Nature, hardly a left-wing socialist outlet. Meanwhile RFKjr is insisting that research money be wasted on further exploration of the long-discredited link between vaccination and autism.

    Alongside this, the Trump administration has launched a full-on ideological war against academic freedom, under the guise of cracking down on 'anti-American' and 'DEI-focussed' speech.

    Trump administration officials have called American colleges and universities “the enemy” and unleashed myriad attacks on them that would undercut their funding and trample their independence. These include cuts in biomedical research funding; eliminating research agencies; threatened reductions to student Pell grants, travel bans, and slow processing of visas of international students; attacks on free speech on campus; a proposed massive increase in taxes on endowments; and on and on.

    As for 'the media bubble': The Guardian has what Americans call 'liberal bias'. So what? I can easily make the distinction between their editorial slant, and the facts they report. So too with the other 'liberal media' - NY Times, Washington Post, The Atlantic. They stand up for liberal values, no question, but they're also capable of balanced writing and reporting, and they do attempt to report the facts.

    And one fact everyone needs to acknowledge is that the Trump administration is built on lies. Trump is the one who insists that the 2020 election was 'rigged' even after 60 lawsuits brought against it were basically laughed out of court. Trump is the one who summarily pardoned 1500 odd felons who had among other things beaten police unconscious with fire extinguishers and flag poles.

    D9341-F5-A-1-C9-F-4-A2-A-8493-19-F99987-B205-1-102-o.jpg
    Trump is on the record saying that Jan 6th 2021 was a 'day of love'.

    It needs to be realised that Donald Trump and Elon Musk are direct threats to constitutional democracy and the rule of law. This is a fact, it is not scare-mongering or 'liberal propaganda' - there are more than 50 current lawsuits brought against Trump's executive actions. Trump is routinely reported as propagating 'disinformation' or 'making claims without evidence', but in plain language, he lies - repeatedly and prolifically, nearly every time he speaks. His administration and those he sorrounds himself with are dripping with mendacity. And that's not a matter of opinion.
  • The proof that there is no magic
    Personally, I think a "hard magic" can work quite well, so long as the author just keeps it vague.Count Timothy von Icarus

    There's a damned good argument for the fact that quantum physics is, in fact, magic - specifically the effect known as non-locality or entanglement. This is what Einstein derisively described as 'spooky action at a distance', but despite his scorn, it was proven to occur, and was subject of the 2022 Nobel Prize in Physics.

    I ran this idea past Gemini, which responded “No, quantum nonlocality, often described as "spooky action at a distance," is a real, experimentally verified phenomenon in physics, not magic, that describes the instantaneous correlation between entangled particles, despite the distance separating them."

    But this bypasses the philosophical import of the question. Just because something is empirically observed and mathematically modeled doesn’t mean it’s conceptually understood, especially in causal terms. The mystery of quantum nonlocality isn't dissolved by calling it a “real phenomenon.” In fact, the phrase “spooky action at a distance” (Einstein's own) was intended as a criticism—it was meant to say, this doesn’t make sense under classical ideas of causality or locality.

    Traditionally, magic is about non-local influence through sympathetic connection—what Sir James Frazer called "the law of sympathy," including "contagion", "sympathy" and "similarity." Two things that were once connected or resemble each other are thought to retain a link, even across space and time. "Like produces like" is known as "imitative magic" and things once in contact remain connected, as "contagious magic".

    Now, if you set aside the cultural baggage around the word magic, it does seem that quantum entanglement shares an odd structural similarity to this older idea: two particles, once interacting, retain an instantaneous link, such that the measurement of one constrains the possible outcomes of the other, even when space-like separated. There's no energy transfer or classical information sent faster than light—but still, there’s a coherence.

    So in a way, quantum nonlocality is “not magical” only in the sense that it obeys quantum theory’s predictions and doesn’t allow for faster-than-light signaling (i.e. it doesn’t violate causality in a relativistic sense). But in terms of intelligibility, it still appears as a kind of patterned connectedness that echoes what earlier traditions would have considered magical or symbolic influence.

    The real issue is that the nature of the causal relationship involved remains deeply unclear (and hence controversial). Quantum theory points at the correlation, but can't explain the connection. So non-locality is not “magic” in the pre-scientific sense, but it does reintroduce a kind of pattern-based, holistic connectedness that resonates with what ancient ideas of magic expressed. That doesn't mean we should start casting spells—but it does mean that the sharp boundary between the “scientific” and the “magical” isn't as self-evident as it might seem.

    And besides, saith Feynman, 'I can safely say that nobody understands quantum physics'. It works - as if by magic!

    (Have a look at my self-published article, Spooky Action in Action!)
  • The proof that there is no magic
    Yes, we can explain it. The explanation is this: The banana turns blue when someone reads that sentence. That explains it. So it's not magic.Quk

    Very facile, but completely overlooks the point of explanation. An explanation demonstrates a causal relationship between events, and a correlation is not causation. If a banana turned blue on account of someone doing anything, then presumably a scientific explanation would be sought by first of all examining the banana and trying to understand what about it has changed. As for the 'second force' example, that has never been used as an example of 'magic'. Comparing a 'banana turning blue' and 'classical physics' is entirely specious.

    What else could "magic" be anyway?Quk

    Something your post demonstrates no conception of.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Another grifter buys his way out of jail by gifting Trump

    Trevor Milton, the founder of electric vehicle start-up Nikola who was sentenced to prison last year, was pardoned by Donald Trump late on Thursday, the White House confirmed on Friday.

    The pardon of Milton, who was sentenced to four years in prison for exaggerating the potential of his technology, could wipe out hundreds of millions of dollars in restitution that prosecutors were seeking for defrauded investors.

    Milton and his wife donated more than $1.8m to a Trump re-election campaign fund less than a month before the November election, according to the Federal Election Commission.
    TheGuardian

    For a forensic analysis of Milton’s grift, see this episode of Cold Fusion TV. Basically he claimed to have invented a feasible electric freighter when he had no such thing, and staged outrageously fraudulent video demonstrations to fleece investors of billions. He’d be a viable candidate for the Trump cabinet in future, one would think.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    With RFK providing guidance on the importance of fresh air and sunshine
  • Australian politics
    I think this 'price controls on supermarkets' is populist talk-back radio nonsense. We don't live in a command economy.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Make American Good Again

    Is this what it means to “make America great again”?

    Does a great nation spurn loyal allies and genuflect before tyrants? Does it seek to swell its size and wealth while cutting lifelines to those sick and starving abroad? Would a great nation embrace oligarchs, both domestic and foreign, while belittling and mistreating the most vulnerable? Would it hunt down homeless migrants and ship them without due process to foreign hellholes? Would it exalt kissing up while kicking down? Would it toss friends to wolves?

    America’s true greatness always has stood on its goodness. Yes, we have sinned, often grotesquely — with centuries of slavery, Indian genocide, land theft and foreign invasions. The Vietnam and Iraq wars stain our national conscience, as do Jim Crow, segregation and Japanese internment. But when we have sinned, we also have repented, even if grudgingly and late.

    When instead we have done good, we have shown our true greatness. By rebuilding Europe with the Marshall Plan; by enabling a dignified and healthy old age with Social Security and Medicare; by lifting barriers to the polls with the Voting Rights Act; by opening our doors to those of all colors and creeds who seek only to build a better life for their children. And, yes, by showing empathy toward the suffering and shunned.

    Being good in all these ways has not made us chumps. We can be at once both generous and self-interested. Our soft power abroad draws on our most generous and noble acts and traditions. Our moral capital has won us tangible capital in both trade and military alliances. Holding true to our democratic traditions has drawn to our side the world’s wealthiest and most powerful democracies.

    Why on earth would we scorn the friendship of Canada, the EU, Japan and South Korea for the meager recompense of Russia’s battered economy and beleaguered military? Why would we betray Ukraine, which has stood bravely against aggression?

    Nor does being good mean being weak. Our military might empowers us to defend our ideals while supporting others who adhere to those same ideals. But being mighty is not an end in itself. Nor is being vast or rich. If we seize Greenland, Gaza or the Panama Canal, or bring our friends to their knees with massive tariffs, we may make ourselves richer in material terms even as we forsake our highest ideals.

    Those ideals, the true roots of our strength, have made America good. And only by being good again can we be truly great.
    George Fisher, The Hill

    This is video of the chilling arrest by plain-clothes ICE operatives, of Rumeysa Ozturk, 30 y.o. PhD student at Tufts University, ostensibly on the grounds of her expression of pro-palestinian support. She was driven several hours then flown to an ICE facility in Louisiana for deportation. Her arrest has been challenged in court and her deportation has been stopped pending appeal.
  • What is faith
    Your posts are well-informed and thought-provoking, thank you.
  • On the substance dualism
    conceptualising something is not to arrive at a static mental image or predefined set of attributes, but a dynamic process that involves engaging with rules, practices, and contexts in a flexible way.Banno

    All physical in nature? Reducible to physics? Able to be replicated in silicon? Oh, I see - 'anomalous monism'. Physicalism with whatever ad hoc admissions that need to be made to accomodate the non-physical nature of intentionality and interpretation. Slick!

    I have a suggestion for why 'anomalous monism' even seems plausible. It has to do with history of ideas. Western philosophy devised 'substance dualism' and then defined mind as a 'thinking thing'. That was susceptible to the 'ghost in the machine' criticism. So, there is no ghost - only the machine, which is what any serious or sober thinker must accept. But then, if there seem to be things which the mechanist or physicalist paradigm can't accomodate, we'll call that an 'anomaly', and carry on regardless.

    Am I warm?
  • Australian politics
    :up: Good to know.
  • We’re Banning Social Media Links
    Agree in general but of note the Australian legislation to put age restrictions on social media use exempted youtube.
  • On the substance dualism
    Information content can be measured physically - that is where Landauer comes in - but that is only because there are agreed conventions of what constitutes meaningful information in the first place.
    — Wayfarer
    :lol:

    What's meaning, if not what what is done with the information? Meaning here is just another term for use.

    And use is physical. It involves actual processes that produce measurable physical effects in the world.
    Banno

    You’re reducing Wittgenstein to a slogan.

    Meaning is not just “use” in the reductive physical sense of mechanical interaction or behavioral output. Wittgenstein’s use theory of meaning operates within language games, forms of life, and shared human practices — none of which can be captured in the vocabulary of physics (and incidentally, as you well know, Wittgenstein detested 'scientism' and presumably physicalism as an aspect thereof.)

    The entire discipline of semiotics — from Peirce to Eco to contemporary biosemiotics — is concerned with signs and sign-relations, not with particles and forces. A sign refers to something; it stands for something else — and that referential function is not something describable in physical terms alone. There is no law of physics that tells you whether “dog” means a four-legged mammal, or whether it’s someone’s last name.

    You’re not seeing the meaning for the words.
  • On the substance dualism
    What we have is two differing descriptions of the same physicality.Banno

    Again, not so. Information content can be measured physically - that is where Landauer comes in - but that is only because there are agreed conventions of what constitutes meaningful information in the first place. And what makes information meaningful is not physical nor can be derived from physics nor reduced to it. And not seeing that is precisely what 'the blind spot of science' is referring to. (This was the subject of a marathon thread from about five years ago, Is Information Physical? although I've since come to understand the question is really about the nature of meaning, rather than information, per se, although it's a porous boundary.)
  • On the substance dualism
    Not. We’ve established the difference cannot be discerned by physical principles alone.
  • On the substance dualism
    That's just not factually correct. The formatted disk containing data has a lower entropy than a disk containing no information.Banno

    And how would you measure the total entropy, if not with reference to the information? What constitutes “data” or “information” isn’t determined by the physical properties alone. You can’t measure the entropy of a hard drive in bits without first interpreting the bit pattern as information. Entropy, in the information-theoretic sense, is a measure of uncertainty or compressibility — but that presupposes a code, a syntax, and a frame of reference.

    Take the disk into a physics lab with no documentation, no file system, and no idea what the code means. Can they measure “how much information” is on it? Not without invoking interpretive assumptions. A completely randomized disk could have maximum Shannon entropy — but also be completely meaningless. It could seem to contain information, when it is really 10 5 repetitions of "quc hye vko jum tfb lrx dog wna zie ped ohr".

    Incidentally, this brings to mind the oft-repeated story about Claude Shannon asking John von Neumann what to call his new measure in information theory. Von Neumann reportedly replied:

    “You should call it entropy, for two reasons: first, the mathematical formula is the same, and second, nobody really knows what entropy is, so in a debate you will always have the advantage.”

    That anecdote, whether apocryphal or not (and it is quite well-documented) captures the core of the confusion: entropy in thermodynamics and entropy in information theory are mathematically analogous but conceptually distinct. One concerns the dispersal of energy; the other concerns uncertainty in symbol sequences. Neither tells us anything at all about meaning.

    Which is precisely the point.
  • On the substance dualism
    "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog"

    "quc hye vko jum tfb lrx dog wna zie ped ohr"

    The difference is, obviously, that the first is a meaningful sentence, and the second is the same set of characters in random order.

    Question: is that a physical difference? If so, what physical law describes it?
    — Wayfarer


    See Landauer's principle, a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics. But obviously, there are far more ways to arrange the letters randomly than there are ways to arrange them into a sentence of English, so that English sentence has a far lower entropy.Banno

    Landauer's principle, and Shannon's law, have nothing to do with semantics or semiotics. They're about storage and transmission of information via electronic media.

    Take a 1Tb hard drive, capable of storing millions of documents. Zero out all of the information, and the hard drive is physically identical. There would be no way to detect the difference between the formatted hard drive and the hard drive containing information, without interpreting the binary code on the medium. But that intrepretive act is also not anything described by physics. It pertains to a completely different level, that of meaning and information.

    The point stands:

    Physics can describe the medium — the symbols, the binary states, the characters.

    But meaning is not in the medium. It's not in the letters themselves, nor in the physical arrangement of bits on a drive. Meaning only appears in interpretation — in the relation between the symbols and what they signify, which presupposes a system of signs, a language, and ultimately a mind.

    That’s the core of the semiotic difference:

    The same physical substrate can be either noise or message — depending not on its physical structure alone, but on interpretive context.

    No physical law explains that difference, because physics (at least in its classical formulation) abstracts away the subjective, intentional, and semantic dimensions of reality. That’s not a bug; it’s how physics works. But it also marks the boundary beyond which semantics, mind, and meaning begin.

    And that’s precisely the blind spot in physicalist accounts of mind and information.
  • We’re Banning Social Media Links
    It certainly covers YouTube shorts.Benkei

    Shorts are a subset of YouTube content. So are we to presume that this doesn't apply to the remaining YT content?
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    if they can balance the budget...NOS4A2

    Another myth! Trump has no interest in balancing the budget, and none of what Congress is proposing will achieve that end. Trump's proposal to cut taxes will far offset the amounts being saved by Musk's chainsaw, which will hardly make a dent in the overall financial situation.

    https://www.npr.org/2025/03/06/nx-s1-5318072/how-much-money-has-doge-saved-budget-deficit-congress

    https://wapo.st/42lkKbL

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicksargen/2025/02/21/federal-spending-cuts-the-math-to-lower-deficits-doesnt-add-up/

    mandatory programs account for 60% of total outlays. When net interest payments and defense spending are included, the amount of nondefense discretionary spending is only about 15% of total outlays). In 2024, this category totaled about $1 trillion. ....

    ...it is important to realize that improved government efficiency will not be sufficient to put the federal budget on sound footing. In fact, the plan House Republicans are putting forth would add $2.8 trillion or more to public debt over the next 10 years according to the Committee for a Responsible Budget. The assessment of the Cato Institute, which favors limited government, is that the House budget “pairs wishful thinking with modest fiscal restraints.”

    One of the main impediments to deficit reduction is that an extension of the Tax Cut and Jobs Act would reduce federal revenues by an estimated $4.5 trillion over 10 years. And this tally will balloon to nearly $8 trillion if tax cuts that Trump proposed during the presidential campaign for Social Security, tips, overtime work and other items are included.

    The idea that DOGE is going to 'balance the budget' by indiscriminate cuts is a myth. Most of the cuts are ideological, driven by Trump's animus towards 'the deep state' (read: the state).
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    It doesn’t matter if the funds had been approved by CongressNOS4A2

    It does. It is illegal. And no evidence of the alleged waste and fraud is ever presented beyond wild internet memes about millions of condoms for Gaza and the like. It’s all just rhetoric used to justify egregious behavior. All of DOGE’s boasts about how much money has been saved have been debunked.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    The so-called checks and balances are working just fine, if you can’t tell by the various injunctions and rulings, and any “subverting constitutional norms and safeguards” will be ironed out in court, the way it always has been.NOS4A2

    Musk's actions speak louder than words. He knows how to come across in interviews. As for 'ironed out in Court', Trump and Musk have already crashed through the guardrails on multiple occasions, a deliberate strategy crafted by Stephen Miller to 'flood the zone', knowing that the judicial system wouldn't be able to keep pace with the scale and rate of Trump's orders. There are now more than 30 legal challenges to Trump executive orders, but even if some are found illegal much of the damage may not be easily remedied. And, not co-incidentally, Musk is campaigning for the impeachment of 'activist judges', those being any judges who have the temerity to stand in the way of Trump's juggernaut - something which even the purportedly Trump-friendly Supreme Court has issued a warning on.

    As regards the USAID and Foreign Aid, regardless of whether there was wastage and fraud, those funds that were held back had already been approved by Congress, and Foreign Aid in particular is scrutinized by no less that four congressional committees. If Congress hadn't been completely cowed by Trump, there's no way he and Musk could have perpertrated these outrages which are indubitably going to affect many millions of people in the developing world and beyond. "World's Richest Man Sets Records for Misanthropy" would be an appropriate headline.

    He (Goldberg) was mistakenly invited and stayed, silently, eavesdropping, long past the time he realized he was not supposed to be there.NOS4A2

    Classic victim-blaming. At first, Goldberg didn't know if it was a scam, and didn't really know until the actual action sequences that Hegseth posted. And - he's a journalist! He did what any journalist would do, and did it entirely responsibly. At first, he only posted that he'd been included - it wasn't until he was accused of being a 'bottom feeder' and liar that he posted the entire chain, which, in any case, MAGA was saying was not classified information (another lie on their part.)

    The whole thing is a sorry saga and a complete indictement of the amateurish nature of the MAGA administration. There are many vignettes of Hegseth stridently demanding that Hillary Clinton be prosecuted for a far less serious offence than what he did. In any normal administration, he would have been dismissed on the spot.

    I know nothing personal about the Atlantic editor, beyond what I have seen of him and read.tim wood

    Here's a profile (gift link). He's a serious journalist, and The Atlantic is a highly-respected magazine, founded 1857 by Ralph Waldo Emerson and others, and now being published successfully with financial backing from Laurene Powell Jobs.
  • On the substance dualism
    A substance is something that exists and has a set of properties or abilities.MoK

    As far as 'substance dualism' is concerned, for Descartes, mind (res cogitans) and matter (res extensa) are of completely different kinds. The soul, res cogitans, is immaterial and lacking in extension (physical dimensions) but is capable of reasoning and thinking. Matter occupies space but is devoid of intelligence. The problem for substance dualism is explaining how non-extended incorporeal intelligence interacts with non-intelligent corporeal matter. Descartes suggest that this was via the pineal gland, but it is generally agreed that this is unsatisfactory and it remains an outstanding problem for substance dualism.

    I'm sorry to say that you're not demonstrating a clear understanding of the questions you're raising, and so I have nothing further to add at this time.
  • On the substance dualism
    I'm curious, what is the difference between physics and a physical ontology?JuanZu

    You can pursue physics without any commitment to physicalism. You can be an instrumentalist, for example, and hold no view as to whether the objects of physics are ontologically fundamental. ‘Whatever works’.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Why do you hate these people?NOS4A2

    Because of what they are doing. It's not hate - that subjectivizes and trivialises the issue. It is an objection to the way that they are subverting constitutional norms and safeguards and indiscriminately destroying and degrading many legitimate functions of Government without any Congressional authority or oversight.

    ADSZ6NJORNLIBHGTYPBRMHSZ3Y.jpg?auth=78c3e35ef508ed0da22855e594230b1723f438a5dd067c5c6626354f1c89637a&width=1920&quality=80
    The Doctor will See you Now

    The latest episode of stunning hypocrisy - NY Times points out that the Administration has refused to provide details of the flight times of the Venezulanen accused gang members on the grounds of 'national security'. But the leaking of war plans via an unsanctioned comms channel - no problem! Nothing to see here foks! What utter bullshit. Surely there must be a reckoning coming.
  • Australian politics
    I watched that election from a friend's place. Very dissappointing, but Shorten's Labor was too complacent by far, they were certain they had it in the bag. Sure as hell hope it doesn't happen this time. Much as I'm unimpressed by Albanese, I think a Dutton government would be a very bad outcome. I'm not worried by the prospect of a minority government split between Labor, Greens and Independents, in fact it might give some of the Independents a bit more clout.
  • Australian politics
    Oh, and Zali Steggel. She’s effective. Besides she disposed of the Mad Monk
  • Australian politics
    I would vote for the likes of Pocock or one or two of the others, but collectively, independents are pretty useless, as a matter of definition. My local member is Susan Templeman, I guess she's a backbencher as you never hear much of her, but she will be getting my vote.
  • On the substance dualism
    These two character strings all comprise identical elements. As far as physics is concerned, there's no discernable difference between them as they both comprise the exact same elements.

    "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog"

    "quc hye vko jum tfb lrx dog wna zie ped ohr"

    The difference is, obviously, that the first is a meaningful sentence, and the second is the same set of characters in random order.

    Question: is that a physical difference? If so, what physical law describes it?

    Physically, the two strings may be identical in terms of material composition — same number of letters, same frequency of each character, even the same total length. To a physicist concerned only with particles and energy, there may be no measurable distinction.

    But semantically — from the perspective of meaning, structure, or information — they are worlds apart. The first is an intelligible sentence with syntactic and semantic coherence. The second is a jumble, with no meaning (unless you're trying to hide a code in there!).

    So: is that a physical difference?

    In the narrow sense — mass, charge, spin, energy — no. Physics doesn’t (yet) have a law that accounts for the meaningfulness of symbolic forms. Shannon's information theory quantifies information capacity, but it doesn't (and doesn't try to) account for meaning as such.

    Yet obviously, for minds — for us — there's a difference that matters. A big one.

    And this gets to the heart of the issue:

    There is a kind of order — semantic, functional, interpretative — that is not captured by the physical description.
  • Phaenomenological or fundamental?
    But what is it that makes a theory fundamental, as opposed to merely phenomenological?SophistiCat

    :clap: Quite.
  • Australian politics
    Bandt is a bit too left for my liking. The Greens are a party of protest and are too immured to green-left ideology. I might have mentioned I once handed out How to Vote for Greens in a state election. Then I went to a State party meeting and got disillusioned with them quick smart. I wish there was a viable alternative party, but there's not.
  • The Musk Plutocracy
    What does constitutional oversight mean?philosch

    I'm not going to do your homework. Trump has zero interest in balancing the budget, by all projections the national debt will balloon under his proposals. I'm not going to respond point by point, other than to say that I think the Trump Presidency is an absolute disaster for both America and the world, and that Trump and Musk between them are doing terrible damage to fabric of society. If that's 'hyperbolic' then so be it.