This is what reality is - it's not simply 'out there' waiting for us to take it in, our taking it in is a constructive process. — Wayfarer

In my theory, consciousness = self organization. That everything that can happen dose happen, given enough time, is due entirely to self organization. — Pop

there is no such thing as a property of language-less conscious experience that we've called "redness" — creativesoul

Then you have no argument with me. — unenlightened

How do you know? Have you seen it? — unenlightened

I literally live in the world. — unenlightened

Those of us who do not live in the mind — unenlightened

"my seeing" nooooht a mental image — bongo fury

I see the apple as distinct from my seeing already. Sometimes, when I peep round the back of what seemed to be a red apple, it turns out to be green on the other side. I still see it out there, not in my head. — unenlightened

Alas for the indirect realist, whenever there is a demonstrable difference between the objective and the subjective, it demonstrates that there is an objective, that we can be deceived about. — unenlightened

if we consistently and independently agree about which apples are red and which are green (which we do), then either the apples are different or our brains are in direct communication by telepathy — unenlightened

It's called colour vision, and it's no great mystery to me. — unenlightened

It relates to philosophical issues such as dualism, qualia, the hard problem, and what not. — Andrew M

this just comes down to whether one accepts the philosophical subject/object distinction or not. As I've mentioned before, I reject it. — Andrew M

Not sure where you get "basic" and "fundamental" from. Not from Dennett's paper. — Luke

And it matters because qualia are supposed to be basic, fundamental, private, ineffable, immediately apprehensible, etc. but redness is none of those things — creativesoul

Identifying the color as "red" does not require metacognition.
— creativesoul

Why not? — Luke

to what extent can something exist independent of a viewer / interpreter? — Pop

brings into question the stupidity of the universe, — Pop

I think, we have to start, as Descartes did, with; I think, therefore I am, and so the word is, and so on. — Pop

apples don't look red in the dark, yet they are red — Andrew M

There are no minds, sensations, feelings as they are commonly theorised or intuited.. — bongo fury

one cannot decide to hear something or not, but can decide to think about something. — Heiko

Folk suppose that if they can't sensibly talk about qualia then the eliminative materialists have won. — Banno

the world is our interpretation of this information, rather than an accurate integration of the facts of the world as they might exist. — Pop

, "All cats look grey in the dark". No disagreement from me.

However that use is derivative from situations where we observe an object in normal lighting which is where color distinctions are originally made. That's the reference point in the world. — Andrew M

One cannot exist without the other - chicken and egg situation. — Pop

I think we exist as consciousness, and the world is a product of this, — Pop

Mummy always insisted on taking more important things, like clothes, to a window before she bought them, to check how they looked in daylight, shop lighting being somewhat deceptive. — unenlightened

It lands on, I am consciousness, and from there it can not go any further. — Pop

Talk of "redness" is existentially dependent upon language use. Reflecting the frequencies we've named "red" does not. — creativesoul

That the apple isn't being looked at, or appears differently in the dark, doesn't change that physical aspect. — Andrew M

just a few that stand out enough to be named — Marchesk

You can do better, Oliver. You have some understanding of Wittgenstein. You have a better grasp of the argument than you pretend here. — Banno

Unless, of course, you want to argue that meaning and use are the same thing. — Banno

Corcoran and his colleagues pitted a particularly noisy species of tiger moth, the Bertholdia trigona, against big brown bats trained to hunt in a flight room. As long as the moths were able to click, the bats couldn't catch them, even though the moths were tethered on a string. — Olivier5

This is a great example of how emotions cloud your judgment, and the power propaganda has on weak minds. — Harry Hindu