All being is causation, and in a solipsistic way, it stirs reaction in all other forms of being.

Reality is biological extension, in the sense that apparent reality is a biological readout, it is how ultimate reality affects ones biology. So to are the creations of biology whether a bird's nest or culture it is all biological extension.

It's a nonsense topic!

Apparent reality is a simulation, it is a simulation of your biological interpretation, it is if you like, a biological readout of how ultimate reality effects your biology. Ultimate reality is a place of no things and nothing in this world has meaning in and of itself, but only in relation to a conscious subject, conscious biology.

Read Oliver Stone's '' The Untold History Of The United States", if you have any doubt America is an empire, a rather nasty one at that.

I do seem to better understand your meaning, as in a shopping mall map, you are here. Somewhere however you need I think, to leave language behind as a guide, and rely upon a basic understanding that death is the end of all experience. Consciousness continues, its all around us and ever renews itself. It ever lives in a self induced apparent reality, and as a an individual dies, so to dies a world.

Sorry, it's a little over my head. Do any of our fellow posters wish to take a crack at it?

I must admit to being puzzled by your post. Are you saying, we didn't really know the person alive and can know them even less when they are dead? Perhaps, I am missing the point, perhaps you could word it differently?

That was the tree that fell in the forest, with no ear to hear it---lol!! No ear, no big bang!!! The great expansion. Did they ever decide whether it was an oscillating universe?

Any system thought of as a whole, has functioning parts that constitute said wholeness. Without the functioning of all parts, the whole would be of a different nature. That is the present problem with the environment, the unnatural behaviours of mankind lead to a drastic change in the climate as a whole. The continuation of said unnatural behaviours could be said to be suicidal. Only apparent reality is dependent upon human biology, the world will continue, just without humanity and the many other organisms humanity will take with it, in this suicidal journey. The presence of the organism man historically has had no damaging effect upon the environment as a whole, until basically the beginning of the industrial revolution to the present day.

Possible only to a conscious observer, another consciousness.

No more, no more, you have to ask yourself, is it better to have lived or better to have never existed. Never to have experienced love, but also never to have experience the slings and arrows of life, in the form of nature red tooth and claw.

People may think good or bad of you but in death, there is no experience, no feelings, what they think could have no effect.

The things you have stated have already been well established in previous posts--- nothing to disagree about here.

Without consciousness there is no time.

The ultimate question is, is there such a thing as human action, apparently you still believe so. Cognitive motivation comes from the outside world, the outside world is the fuel of the mind, substract consciousness/mind, and the object/world disappears, subtract object/the physical world and the consciousness/mind disappears. This mutual dependency of reciprocation cause and effect identifies the physical world as the being of cause, the organism the being of reaction to a larger reality.

Yes, you have a choice, the only choice you do not have is that of not reacting. You will react in some way, it is the nature of the beast, all organisms are reactive creatures. You may be inhibited from reacting in certain ways due to context, so you react in another way. Hunger is a need of something in the outside world, a necessity, an energy source. Yes, you have the ability to reason, to change your mind, and to not react in this way, but to react in another. It is through reaction that evolutionary adaptation occurs through time, reacting to the environment, to mutation and to death. "We can train ourselves to react in certain ways." This is true, but in order to react, one must be motivated to do so, which makes it a reaction. Again, all organisms are reactionary creatures to the larger reality of the physical world.

Anything you do in the outside world is first cognitively motivated by the outside world, and by this definition is reaction NOT an action. The being of the outside world could be said to be action through being and is of your cause of motivation. If you understand this, there is no exception to it in the desire to change a habit that effects you badly. The habit that effects you badly is effecting your body's well-being in the world. The fact that you have altered a motivation to a different motivation of acting in the world, does not negate that all motivations fulfilled in the world are reactions. There is only one source of motivation, and that is the physical world's Affect upon you.

The object of motivation, and one needs object inorder for the mind to function at all. In other words, there has to be something in the outside world which you wish to create an effect/change in, this is motivation, and by definition of motivation, it is necessarily reaction. Again human action is not a reality anywhere, under any conditions. It is just an impossiablity, whether you are talking about Red or yourself.

Yes, you are both causal creatures to each other, due to the fact that Red is an element of your physical outside world and vice-versa. You are part of Red's physical outside world, thus you can motivate just by being, just as the world motivates creatures just by being.

The foundation of apparent reality is your biology, foremost we must have experience, for experience is the holy grail. Certainly our ideas and concepts structure somewhat, but all words are but qualifications and/or limitations. Experience of the physical world is, the other half of your mind, it's is fuel to the mind so to speak. Subject and object stand or fall together- to steal a bit from Schopenhauer. Open and unlimited speculation is metaphysics, if it never answers back to reality it is quite useless.

Again, human action is not possible. Before one can move in the physical world one must be motivated to do so, where does that motivation come from? Where there is motivation to affect the physical world it is always a reaction. Red, as well as yourself, are reactive creatures. You react to him and he reacts to you.

Concepts and ideas are the tools of reason, not an end in themselves. The Maps is not the terrain so to speak.

The only standard in defining no downside is the condition of no suffering, whether that be psychological or physical. Apparent reality is delusional if you like, it is created by our biology. Apparent reality is a biological readout, as surely as a calculator creates a sum total of its input, so the sum total of the reactions we have to the physical world present us with apparent reality.



The survival instinct is not delusion, it is the serving of the essence of what you are, you're genes, your body is a vehicle for said genes. The function of the vehicle body is to survive long enough to pass on your genes. You seem to be wishing to negate the power of reason, the fact that our ancestors were ignorant of the total reality of the world does not negate the value of reason which did discover the earth was not flat. I guess we should define the term delusional, so as to be sure we are on the same page. You seem to think that delusion is the key to happyness but wish to use reason to get there and then justify living in delusion through reason. It is strange to me.

There is a base to our experience of the world, due to operating with basically the same systems. Apparent reality is based upon our experiences through our common biology, a biological readout you might say. The impression that I get from you, is that you are choseing to embrace something you know to be delusional, how that is even possiable boogles my mind. The world is chaotic enough as it is, if you wish to introduce an exceptence of all realities and/or all opinions have equal crediabilty there would be nothing but chaos. I can tell your sold on this course of reaction, but it is not one I personally have any respect for. These in- groups/religons are divisive and irrational, and in these times of nucular profiration we cannot afford irrationality and the creation/or maintenance of hate groups -- May Ali behead you if you disagree!

LOL!!! Ever put snow on a hot lightbulb---Bink or could be a Tink, at any rate, the lights go out.

Hermeticus,

Can't really argue with a man who simply wants happiness. My only point might be that what is good for an individual in their quest for happyness, can create a problem for a world that needs to deal with reality.The religious you might agree are not dealing with reality and it shows at the voteting both --think Trump, and the many many hate groups who vote for him, including the religious right wing. You might consider another drug.

Fool,
You had to know you get stuck with that handle--lol!! You are of course right, no suffering is involved, whether psycological or physical. You might think that getting shot in the head would be painful, but not if it does not have time to register. It is not the worst of ways to go.

Major cute dog! Human action simply is not possible, everything you do is a reaction, and your motivations come from mostly the outside world, but one could be reacting to a medical condition or the presence of a parisite, which has been known to alter one's behaviour. If one believes that people act badly through spontaneous action, this leave us in complete bewilderment as to cause. All reaction of reactionary creatures is first motivated thus, it is reaction. Examine your interactions with Red what is motivating you and what is motivating Red the give and take.

I agree there is much suffering involved in most deaths, but there are those the gods smile upon and it's BINK, the lights are out. The big sleep is granted utterly without suffering, never knew what hit them sort of thing.

Throughout one's life there is a common avoidance in pondering death, and more so the more one is full of life's vitality. I have found some peace with the idea through understanding the nature of consciousness as that which is thought to be lost. Conciousness is not lost, it is everywhere, and if one identifies with consciousness rather than the vehicle that carries it, there is a level of compensation in that.

Conciousness is one thing and identity is quite something different. Identity is a constitution's consciousness of it's journey through this life, so identity becomes the journey, what context has largely defined. Constitution is a given, good or bad but what happens to it registers in consciousness as who/what you are.

Just what absolutes are you referring to?

HI Praxis,

To be motivated to eat, for every true need of an organism there seems to be the counterpart in the physical world to fulfill that need. When one is hungry it is due to an inadequate partaking of the outer world. One is reacting to the need of such things that are considered food to the organism just as surely as the air the organism breaths. Again all organisms are reactive creatures to the physical world, in this behavioural relation through the organisms reactive nature, the creature establishes its oneness, its interdependence, the world as we know it is dependent on us, its reactive creatures. Reactive/consciousness is how we know the world, it's apparent reality dependent upon our biologically conscious /reactive nature.

Being a reactive creature does not limit the ablity to choose, you choose to train Red, and that is a reaction to Red and your will to have him behave in particular ways. I suggest there may be something wrong with Red, was he abused before he became your dog? My experience with animals is that if they are asured of their food, there is none of this behaviour of eating as much as is possiable to the point of illness, has Red ever known starvation? With Red's behaviour and with the behaviours of your fellow humans, it would be wise if you wish to understand their behaviours to ask yourself, what are they reacting to , it might not be something in your immediate presence. By the way, I never said that one cannot excirses judgement in one's choices, if you chose not to eat something, that is a reaction as well, one cannot escape being a reactionary creature.

Given the temporality of everything around us, what makes you think the universe is eturnal? Sorry if I misenterpreted your perspective as being bibilical. Although I think it possiable its influences might creep into any of our posts, culture does tend to define. When ever one is in complete agreement with the majority, is when one needs to question one's own motivations and methods of understanding.

Your point here about the adoption of a myth, an unlikely method alone to find truth, simply to obtain existential comfort, is a betrayal of your intellectual integrity. If you are alright with that, then your home free. If you are a Yank, most of the population apparently agrees with this method or process. It is not a behaviour I personally respect, and the tendency of believers is to believe they are deserving of respect.

In my intro post, I did mention no downside where there is no form of suffering to the process.
I am afraid I am unfamiliar with the references you make here but will check it out. Is it Greek mythology?

HI Praxis,
Well as far as being locked into a conditional pattern, the roles of both earth as object and you as subject are iron clad for both you and Red. Your submission is wrong, Anything you do must be motivated and where does that motivation come from but your outside world. Remmeber, one must be moved within, before one can move without in reaction too.

Sorry you lose me right way when you get biblical. I do not have any respect for it.

The only true meaning of conscious existence is that it is the working relationship between subject and object. Consciousness is perception, is reaction, is cause to the outside world. Your answer is in your own statement, all things change, nothing is eturnal.

This is about how organisms function relative to the physical world he/she lives in, there are particular functions to be recognized in the relation of subject and object. Nothing is eturnal