To me, the person who uses that phrase is saying that: 'it' is what they consider to be an absolute truth (e.g. gravity is here to stay, so you might as well get used to it); or 'it' is so deeply rooted that any reasonable effort won't cause 'it' to change, so you might as well accept 'it' (e.g. your grandfather is an idiot - get used to it).

@Rich

The 'I' you speak of only exists because your parents had sex. The desire you have to add novelty to your life only exists because of the experiences that have led you to that point, and your biological instinct to love and create.

I agree that many people live as part of 'the machine' of society without realizing that there can be more to life, but this 'awakening' normally comes about as a result of first becoming a miserable robot, and realizing that something needs to change if your life is going to continue. Unless you have very aware parents, whose influence is strong enough to combat the effect of society, there's a good chance you will live as a robot before you are able to shrug off the chains of the personal identity that you've formed throughout your life.

I change all the time and it had zero to do with my genetics and upbringing. — Rich

The knowledge and experience you use to make your choices are based on past choices and outcomes, the earliest of which were dependent on various influences over which you had no control - parental, societal, environmental. The person you are today and the choices you make would be very different, given different parents and place of birth.

A good woman is the one you find after the bad woman you divorced.

Truly though, I learned a lot about what I shouldn't look for in a woman after spending several years in a mostly negative relationship. I also learned a lot about what I should be doing to allow my partner to be a good woman.

I've definitely found a keeper this time round - compassionate, supportive, loving, sexually responsive, hard-working, easy-going, frugal, and a great mother. The only thing she sometimes lacks is communicating in a timely manner.

I would say most of these qualities would make a 'good woman' (or person), whether in a relationship or not.

@Rich You have the ability to choose, but you had no hand in creating yourself, nor the original environment you were born into.

Exactly who or what do you believe is choosing the words? — Rich

You are choosing the words, but you are choosing based on all of your previous choices and experiences. Your first choice ever was based on your biological instincts, the environment into which you were born, and other factors that you didn't choose. So yes, you are able to make choices that will affect your future, but you shouldn't take credit or accept blame for the choices or the results. That being said, in the absence of any learned or physiological dysfunction of the brain, a person will be motivated to make choices that make life a more positive experience.

I decided to respond and I did in this post. — Rich

Yes, but your decision to respond and your decision to even use those words was all based on what came before, at the root of which you had no control.

Of course we make choices. ...choices that are mostly, almost entirely, or entirely determined by our prior inclinations and predispositions, and events and conditions in our surroundings. — Michael Ossipoff

I agree. Events are not pre-determined - they unfold according to a multitude of causal factors, including choices made by living things. We make choices according to desired outcomes, the expected probability of which is based on previous experience. Previous experience is built on past choices and outcomes. At the root though, are all factors over which you had no control - genetic make-up, parenting, societal influences. So while it feels like you have created yourself and your will to choose, you really had no control over the initial inputs that formed the basis of your first choice.

And what can they do about it based on your theory?

@TranscendedRealms But to whom is this relevant? Everyone has emotions.

Who let Transcended Realms and his packets back in?

Emotions are actually a sense like sight. They allow us to see the values that things and situations hold in our lives. It is only our positive emotions that allow us to see the positive qualities of life (i.e. the good values) while it is only our negative emotions that allow us to see the negative qualities of life (i.e. the bad values). — TranscendedRealms

Even if you accept this as truth, what are the implications of such a view? What difference would it make to how someone lives?

@Hanover I think literal cats are probably a lot easier to negotiate with... consider yourself lucky!

Haha! But at least you would know that you suck, instead of just constantly wondering.

I agree that repression and the unconscious play a huge role in depression.

(Y) 3 (N) 1

I think I'll just start adding them at the end of my own posts. Looks pretty legit. People will be trying to click on them and nothing will happen.

:D 8 >:) 2

What-eva!

:D 13 (Y) 19

Hahaha!

Okay, maybe we're going to need a few more buttons... I suggest 'Agree', 'Like', '♡', and 'Brilliant!'

Hard to know if you're a worthwhile individual without some 'Likes'! It's the most accurate measure out there!

Took a look. You're right - it doesn't get used much, except by @ArguingWAristotleTiff, the Philosophy Cheerleader. ;)

I made a suggestion on the Facebook page that they should post more excerpts from the Forum there. Maybe we can get some validation that way. X-)

We used to have 'like' buttons. They were voted out. I voted to keep them, but now I think it's better without them. — Sapientia

Ah well, I guess I'll just have to bask in the silence.

I think we need 'like' and 'dislike' buttons and counts in this forum. Sometimes, I think I've made a pretty decent post, and no one really responds to it saying 'Hurrah' or 'Woohoo' - it just kind of sits there, and I'm left to feel like no one even bothered to consider it. Or wait - maybe silence is the highest form of praise you can get here... :)

Has there been a positive response to the awareness of death? — eddiedean

The YOLO factor.

Even though I have chosen to get help to change my life for the better, I could still clearly tell that my whole life and the whole idea of me getting help to change my life was not of any real perceived value and worth to me. — TranscendedRealms

My experience with depression was quite different. Having experienced what I consider to be a normal state of mind leading up to the depressed period, I could indeed see the value in returning to that normal state, despite the fact that I was completely miserable. Also, my mood during my depressed state did not reflect what one would expect, given my life circumstances at the time, which were pretty damned good. It wasn't until I addressed my negative irrational belief systems that I was able to recover from the severe depression. In my case, the thoughts were driving the emotion and perception as much as the emotions were at times driving the thoughts and perception.

I suppose I should tread very carefully now... they've started a thread about ousting me - "We Need to Talk About Kevin"...

Why do we need more people to exist who need goals to work towards, over and over, relentlessly until we die? — schopenhauer1

The need for offspring is biological. That's why we're so attracted to certain members of the opposite sex, why sex feels so damn good, why seeing your newborn offspring brings such joy, and why the loss of a child is probably one of the worst things a person can experience. It is only our high level of intelligence that turns procreation into a question of whether or not we should do it. And it is this same intelligence that has resulted in all of the unnecessary suffering - whether physical/emotional/sexual abuse inflicted on others, or self-inflicted mental suffering.

As for goals - they can be fine and dandy, as long as you don't attach too much importance or judgment to the end result. Once you've satisfied your basic survival needs, establishing lofty goals can be a way to spice up life - to thrive instead of just survive. That being said, I think there is some benefit to routine, repetition, and consistency. It is comforting to feel like there is some level of control over your life, and that your survival is not constantly under threat.

So, how is it then that depressed and apathetic people are still able to have these positive thoughts of value in their lives and display these positive tones and expressions in the absence of their positive emotions? It would be due to the fact that they are deluded. They are forcing themselves to make the best of life anyway without their positive emotions and they think that is somehow a good and worthwhile life to them when it is not. These forceful expressions have become so natural to them that they are fooled into thinking their lives really are good to them. Or it could be the case that these depressed and apathetic people have, at least, a small amount of positive emotions to give them a small perceptual amount of value in their lives. — TranscendedRealms

I think it's because one of our basic instincts is to search for love, reciprocation, community - all of which are aimed at survival of the individual and the species. The problem is that how the world currently operates is often largely at odds with how we feel it should be at a deep level. The resulting stress causes much of the unhappiness and mental disorder that we see these days. Despite being depressed or apathetic, we continue to search for and acknowledge the things we are instinctively driven to seek out, in an effort to find a reason to live in the face of sometimes extreme mental suffering.

We assume our habits and goal-seeking is "us" and do not go on to the next layer of meta-analysis and get at what we are trying to get at by being in the first place. — schopenhauer1

I think the problem is that along with increased intelligence and civilization came this perceived need to always be achieving, thriving, and improving. This perceived need drives much of the mental suffering that takes place. If we teach our children that it is okay to just survive and contribute the best they can, instead of imposing such unnaturally high ideals on them, perhaps much of the suffering would end. Then it wouldn't be such a question of morality when bringing a child into the world; it would just be the natural thing to do, in line with our instinct to survive and procreate, like any other animal.

Since gender identification seems hard-wired, often from an early age, is it possible that the mismatch occurs in the womb (i.e. a female mind is paired with male genitalia, or vice versa)? This would of course necessitate gender identification being brain-based (or soul-based, if you believe in that) from the start, as opposed to being driven solely by physical features and hormones. If one could accept this concept, it is not a stretch to think that the genetic program could misfire once in a while, especially considering the idea that all embryos begin as female.

I take offence to this thread. It is obviously a thinly veiled attempt to have me ousted. ;)

That's an obvious set-up for a joke about beer and spreading, but given all the recent sexism hoopla, I'll let that one slide right by... ;)

Cheers! So what you're saying is you've got great legs and a positive attitude... Can't go wrong there!

I like to post in this thread whenever I can't find another thread to which I can make a useful contribution. So I post in here a fair bit. I'm mostly interested in philosophy of the mind. Given my history of depression and possible hypomania, I'm very motivated to achieve lasting, stable peace of mind. I'm least interested in the threads about logical equations, and anything Thanatos Sand or John Harris have to say.

@Rich But why wouldn't all memories be affected equally, if they are being channeled through the brain. Memory loss is often selective, leaving certain memories totally intact. I experienced this after undergoing ECT - certain memories were completely lost, while others remained.

@Rich Just wondering how Alzheimer's fits in with your theory that memory exists beyond the brain. Wouldn't memory be much more consistent and persistent if it were attached to the soul?

science isn't currently capable of detecting everything that exists — CasKev

I return to my previous point above. Perhaps we don't yet have the means of locating and measuring the soul.

Just giving the bully some of his own medicine...

@John Harris it would just be nice to see you disagree with someone without being insulting or condescending. (Y)

Keep showing off your lack of personality and soul! >:O