Neither religion is "about morality" IMO. Christianity is mainly concerned with eschatology and Buddhism is mainly concerned with soteriology. And yes, Christianity consecrates suffering like Jesus and Buddhism practices ways to reduce suffering. 'Moralities' have been derived from these premises, respectively, but that is not their functions (re: the first few centuries of each religion, respectively). — 180 Proof
In Early Buddhism, there are four Brahamaviharas (or four sublime attitudes, or four divine abodes) (see here in the index for links at the entry Brahmaviharas. [/quote]Pali metta is the equivalent of Sanskrit maitri which seems to be more like friendliness, goodwill, or benevolence, the opposite being ill-will.
In the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali, maitri is supposed to be practiced together with other attitudes like compassion (karuna), happiness (mudita), and indifference (upeksanam). — Apollodorus
Universal metta is supposed to be univeral goodwill, meaning one would have goodwill for everyone, ie. for the tiger, for oneself, and for everyone else. Note: for oneself. Sacrificing oneself to the tiger would not be an act of goodwill for oneself.It is debatable how to best apply this in practice, though. For example, when coming across a tiger in the forest. I think the idea is that when practiced properly, the object of your metta, in this case the tiger, will be moved to respond in kind and be nice to you instead of having you for breakfast or lunch. But I don't know how many Buddhists have developed their metta to the degree that it would work out as intended.
The salient point of the Jataka tales is that they are accounts of the actions of an _un_enlightened being. Some Theravadans see them as cautionary tales about what not to do.On the other hand, if the ultimate objective of metta is to eradicate selfishness, then perhaps offering yourself as food to the tiger may be the quickest way to achieve it.
In the Jataka Stories, the Buddha in a previous life met a starving tigress that was about to eat her own cubs, and offered himself to her as food out of metta and karuna (Āryaśūra's Jātakamālā, Vyāghrī-jātaka).
Naikan is about another person not oneself. — Fooloso4
An interpretation of 'virtue ethics' (re: Philippa Foot, Martha Nussbaum) in a Spinozist-Peircean sense:
Moral character (ethos) consists of habits of eusocial judgment (phronesis).
Virtues (arete) are adaptive skills acquired and developed through applying them in various practices (praxes) which gradually habitualize and thereby, in positive feedback loops, are reinforced by moral character (ethos).
Flourishing, or reduction of self-immiserating habits (eudaimonia) is the 'categorical imperative' (telos) of moral character (ethos).
In sum: inhabiting a habitat with others (from etymology of ethos) is cultivated by exercising eusocial habits through adaptive conduct contra maladaptive conduct (agon). — 180 Proof
A virtue is a personal attribute.
Virtue ethics is about developing ethical personal attributes. The list usually includes things such as integrity, honesty, courage, fairness.
Deontological ethics is following rules.
Consequential ethics is about looking at the results of one's actions. — Banno
Well, proving a conspiracy can be next to impossible, or entirely impossible, that's the whole point of a conspiracy.Basically you really have to find links that would approve that there's a conspiracy and not options a) or b) would be likely. — ssu
Only vaguely. It seems very complex. Are you referring to the roles of Les éradicateurs and Les dialoguistes?Are you familiar with the history of the Algerian civil war?
But, Baker, if we bear in mind that in Platonism the true individual is the nous, etc. as explained above, then I think there should be less doubt about it.
Unless you have a better suggestion .... — Apollodorus
Some examples:There are? What is on those lists? Where can they be found? Are the questions unquestioned? — Fooloso4
So Donald Trump, seriously put forward as an example of narcissism, is less infatuated the "real" DT and more infatuated with the DT he imagines himself to be. — Bitter Crank
The utter irrelevance of other people, envious or pitying is the essence of Narcissus. — unenlightened
But Narcissus was sooo beautiful, people could not resist him--even if he'd just as soon they go bother somebody else. Maybe such people are born for real who are irresistibly beautiful and who do not need the help of agents and PR to attract admirers. I think these characters are more fictional vehicles than real. — Bitter Crank
In these circumstances, there is no basis to make a reasonable decision. What is needed, and what is lacking, is trust. Trust is the liquidity of the knowledge economy, and of society in general. — unenlightened
Indeed, but I don't think it will ever be possible to discover the truth about this incident.I think the fact that it happened on television means that it could be some kind of PR stunt including by the state. But you would need more info than that to decide either way. — Apollodorus
Awww. The China paranoia! Well, China is making lots of money from lots of things, so there's that.Speaking of which, China seems to be making lots of money from selling face masks, protective suits, ventilators, and other Covid-related stuff. Could it be that it created and released the virus for some hidden agenda?
Their stance is that the covid virus does not exist.Last night, a group of covid deniers stormed the studios of Slovenian national television.
— baker
Sorry baker, but I'll have to ask this.
Were they really "covid deniers"? — ssu
Are you familiar with the series Person of Interest? There, a group of people, Samaritan, who wanted to control the world by IT surveillance techniques engineered its own opposition, called Vigilance who were directly and violently opposed to such surveillance. Vigilance's opposition and use of violence made Samaritan look legitimate and necessary, and just the kind of organization the government should hire.Thesis: If you want to control the situation, create an extreme opposition to yourself that you can control, and this will help you to control the legitimate opposition.
— baker
Well this sounds like a counter-insurgency tactic!
If you have an insurgency that has a) popular support, b) sound reasoning behind it, c) possibility to gain outside acceptance and justification, then this is the way to go. Create a group that is so bananas, so insanely crazy, and make them to attack the reasonable (actual) insurgents.
Sure. But do you want to know what (and how) people believe just out of curiosity, or do you have a more urgent and useful reason for it?It's an exercise in finding out what (and how) people believe — Isaac
I doubt Plato or Socrates would ever say such a thing, at least they wouldn't mean it in the general sense that your sentence suggests.So, ultimately, it is for the individual to work out a solution. — Apollodorus
The examined life is not prescriptive. — Fooloso4
Narcissus is the archetype of the addict. — unenlightened
So, what was so special about Narcissus? — Shawn
Ok. The Big Bang is a better story than Genesis. With Genesis the story is given, and folk spend their time trying to make the world fit the story. With physics, the world is given, and we change the story to fit the world. One story closes off further discussion, the other opens it up. — Banno
The Buddha does something similar. I'd argue that Siddhartha Gautama very much opted to live on in maya as well.
In terms of enlightenment, there is a distinction to be made between Pratyekabuddhas (solitary Buddha) and Samyaksambuddhas (perfect Buddha).
The first one finds truth and keeps it to themselves. It is a sort of blissful ignorance that disregards everything that goes on within the illusion of existence.
The Samyaksambuddha on the other hand comes to the conclusion that while blissful ignorance is blissful indeed, this is not true liberation. They opt to live on still entangled in maya, teaching their way to others entangled in maya. They are similar in that way to the Beautician, attempting to make the illusion as nice as it can be.
Only, the principle idea here is different from the Beautician: While the nicest version of illusion for them is one that conceals the truth, for a Samyaksambuddha, the nicest version of illusion is one where everyone can see the truth despite living in an illusion. — Hermeticus
Poetry is to thought as makeup is to a woman. A poet is a beautician - enhances beauty and conceals ugliness. The metaphysics of beauty is simply our dissatisfaction (dukkha) with reality and thus our obsession with illusion (maya). Turns Buddhism which believes maya is dukkha on its head. — TheMadFool
Such is the power of poetry. If you read the above mentioned poems, they still have that aspect of "beautifying the ugly" to them. The effort it takes to become enlightened is great, much hard work, and the poems afford a dignified distance toward it, or else one would be crushed by it.How is that a good peom can be written about the bad? — TheMadFool
This assumes that people want or should want to cooperate, that their basic belief is something like "We should all be willing to cooperate with everyone else."1. Establish agreement not only about basic definitions (which is important), but also about basic beliefs.
This is an essential place to start any discussion, as mentioned above, because it saves a lot of time, effort, and confusion. I can't count how many times an argument eventually loops back to these questions somehow.
2. Make sure to understand the other person's position.
This is best demonstrated by stating what you believe to be their argument, and by them confirming your accuracy. No straw men, no caricatures, and hopefully far less later misunderstanding.
3. Build on commonality.
Once basic beliefs and definitions are agreed upon, and positions accurately understood, then go on to problems and proposed solutions. — Xtrix
And for some people, sometimes, political tribalism and dehumanizing the "other" is precisely what they are in for in discussion, even if ostensibly, they're seeking to discuss advanced mathematics or climate change or whatever.This has led to political tribalism and dehumanizing the "other," reminiscent of religious wars. — Xtrix
in a world that likes to privilege the folk wisdom of 'win/win' — Tom Storm
With that being said, I argue that it's best to avoid in-depth discussion of anything until this consensus is confirmed, if for no other reason than to avoid wasting time. — Xtrix
The degree of goodwill for the other person. An infatuated person has little or no goodwill for the person they are infatuated with (down to lacking the most basic empathy for them). Whereas loving someone also includes having goodwill for them, wishing them well.What’s the difference between simply being infatuated with someone and loving them? — Benj96
The high rate of infidelity is possibly due to the high rate of infatuation, and with it, the low rate of goodwill.If you subscribe to the idea of love please explain why on earth we would need it. We are animals with a high rate of infidelity I would struggle to believe we are indeed as monogamous as culture and romcoms would dictate
Sure. But in a more realistic way, we can ask how it is that language, "the word", constructs meaning that makes it possible at all to conceive of anything at all. The tree in the Eden was a knowledge tree, so what is knowledge? It is the power of language and logic. We were kicked out of Eden because we developed that supreme violation of comfort and familiarity: the ability to inquire. Nothing but trouble from there.
Language "creates" the world. Prior to this, there is no world; there is what cannot be said, but talking like this raises Wittgenstein's, and the Buddhist's, ire. But once acquired, language is the backdrop of understanding that constitutes a person, who can then drop the explicit, move back into the primordial through the regressive (call it) method of yoga, and let the world speak as it once did. — Constance
"Socioeconomic success is wisdom"? (transl: Greed is good :roll:) ... — 180 Proof
So what were they? The primordial armchair philosophers? I'm being both ironic and not.I tend to doubt that they sought political power for themselves. Socrates was the antithesis of politician and he was an old man. I think the basic idea was to influence society, including the political classes, through education, though Plato may have liked to see himself in the role of advisor to political leaders. — Apollodorus
I doubt a few men can have such influence, so I'd look for another explanation.The main point, though, is that they succeeded in popularizing philosophy.
Meanwhile, we still have to deal with the damn pandemic.
The simple part is that more or less everyone wants the damn pandemic to be gone — jorndoe
That paper seems to be saying that the risk is greater after vaccination and a positive test for covid than it is with vaccination alone. In other words it seems the subjects were all vaccinated individuals. — Janus
Despite your cherry-picked press clippings, the group you describe are not one homogeneous legion. Attempts to lump everyone who disagrees with the party line in with the tinfoil hat brigade are just political. There's a convenient bunch of loonies who can be called on to besmirch any view you don't like by association. Should we do the same with climate change? Environmental issues? I could definitely rustle up some seriously dodgy hippies who are all in for those sorts of causes. Shall we make the serious climate scientists look like fools by associating them with a few tree-hugging children of Gaia?
Is this the direction you really want public debate to head? — Isaac
In Slovenia, there has for a long time been an unspoken culture of how to proceed in such cases, and people in general were expected to "make the right decision" on their own. Ie. to not be a burden to others.How about treating a 90-year old woman with heart surgery to provide her a new heart valve? She takes up resources too. Do it or not do it? — Benkei
In some EU countries, we have a mixture of privatised and universal healthcare. Here, the bottomline is that health insurance only gets you at the end of the waiting line, which is usually quite long. So you have to pay out of your own pocket to get medical treatment in a timely manner, and of better quality (which makes for a bizzare experience: same clinic, same doctor, but different standards of care, depending on whether you pay out of your own pocket or whether insurance pays).It's not a debate about the virtues of capitalism or socialism but a debate between privatised and universal healthcare. Under the first, you're definitely screwed if you have a rare disease. At least universal healthcare is subject to public debate, instead of board room decisions. Moreover, due to the fact universal healthcare includes more people, the risk mutualisation is spread over a greater number of people. In theory it should be more affordable to also cover rarer diseases. In practice this is proved time and again by the fact both coverage is greater and costs are lower in countries with universal healthcare as opposed to the US, while quality of care is, on average, better too. — Benkei
But would you include the consideration as to why the person didn't get vaccinated?It's only relevant if other triage considerations have already been exhausted (such as, acuteness of the care needed, beneficence and maleficence) and if the information is available whether such a person has contributed to the hospitalisation themselves, then I would use that information and I think it would be ethical to do so.
But, saying "hey, it works, which can't be right" doesn't work. — jorndoe
And no consideration is given as to why a person didn't get vaccinated
— baker
Maybe, maybe not? What do you think? It's usually easy enough to identify people that require special medical attention. (Maybe ridiculous conspiracy theories are special conditions.) Actually, I think trying to round up medical conditions is standard procedure; maybe frank or someone knows.
somehow, covid vaccines are a stellar exemption
— baker
Keep up. — jorndoe
"Metta" isn't 'love', and "loving-kindness" is an awkward translation.Loving kindness (metta) in Buddhism includes love for all living things. — Ross
However, I don't think that that is true, as virtue ethics tries to answer the question "how do we ought to be ?" while consequentialism, deontologism and other views on ethics tries to answer the question "what do we ought to do ?".
If it is possible for human beings to have any moral knowledge, then it must be that both of these questions can be answered separately, and the answers will not contradict each other in any way, that is, moral actions will always be made by people possessing the necessary virtues to perform that action. — Hello Human
My impression is that what he and Plato really attempted to do was to bring some order to the confused society and culture they lived in, and this implied some religious and political reforms. — Apollodorus
