I use it simply to argue from a standpoint — Jake Hen

That strikes me as unnecessary.

whom can he look to and say, "I can out perform them"? — Jake Hen

Why do you believe intelligence is connected to the ability to outperform others?

Well even if he is stunted mentally somehow, since he is isolated with no one to compare it to, he is the most intelligent person — Jake Hen

Isn't He also the dumbest person?

An intelligent person is considered intelligent because they outperform their peers — Jake Hen

Without peers wouldn't intelligence be impossible according to this argument?

considering someone as intelligent is a social title — Jake Hen

Do you mean that intelligence is similar to calling someone short or tall? In other words you're tall if you're taller than most people and you're short if you're shorter than most people?

It shouldn't even be theoretically possible.

theoretically yes — Jake Hen

According to your definition of intelligence he couldn't possibly be intelligent because intelligence is by definition "the ability to apply knowledge and learn knowledge at a high level" something he is unable to do.

Couldn't someone who was unable to apply knowledge or learn knowledge due to some twist of fate still be intelligent? For example someone who was imprisoned in a dark dungeon and was therefore unable to learn or apply knowledge at a "high level".

What do you think "high level" means exactly?

It seems like the surface level observation is that intelligence is the ability to apply knowledge and learn knowledge at a high level — Jake Hen

Is this what you believe?

Well it depends on what they value most in life, no? — Jake Hen

No it doesn't. I believe that what is good and bad for individuals can be determined objectively. Individuals can be mistaken. If someone believes that something is valuable that doesn't automatically mean that their belief is correct.

If a person values material pleasure over immaterial ones then the best thing for them would be to material wealth in any form they choose. — Jake Hen

This is something I disagree with but it doesn't really seem like it's connected to the development of a definition of intelligence so I won't argue with you because it seems irrelevant. If you can explain to me why or how this is connected to defining intelligence then and only then will I provide you with my perspective on this subject. Please forgive me if I'm coming across as dismissive or pretentious because that is not my intention. I also realize that you disagree with this statement because you indicated as much.

In a nutshell, good and bad are subjective to everyone, some gain their morals from the those around them and others form them from their own individual experiences. — Jake Hen

I'm not interested in morality. I'm interested in intelligence.

"Good for you" is determined by the individual — Jake Hen

Do you have a reason why you believe this? If you don't I have no reason to believe your claim.

It all depends on what you value as 'good' from a risk assessment perspective. — Tom Storm

I’m not sure what you’re trying to communicate with this sentence but it strikes me as strange to say the least. Let’s substitute drug abuse with something else that you mentioned before, namely self harm, specifically it’s most extreme form which is suicide. Would you still say the same thing in that situation?

But, given the risks, there comes a time when a lifestyle change is recommended. — Tom Storm

This is precisely the point I’m trying to make.

Pure heroin, by the way, is less harmful that alcohol on the body. — Tom Storm

If this really is the case then just substitute heroin for alcohol.

Your question baffles me but perhaps that’s because I don’t fully understand it and if that’s the case I apologize in advance. Does the mere fact that you disagree with other people make your opinion correct? Couldn’t you be mistaken? Some people aim to get high by using heroin but does the mere fact that you were aiming for that outcome make it good for you?

All you need to know is that if she's 23 and he's twice her age, he'll be 46. — Down The Rabbit Hole

I figured. It was a trick question so I deliberately decided not to answer.

All I am trying to convey is that outcomes are complex. — Tom Storm

I agree.

If you are aiming for a bad result and you achieve this then you were successful. — Tom Storm

What if the result you were aiming for is bad for you?

It would have to be an objectively correct answer. For example - a girl is 17 years old. Her brother is twice her age. When the girl is 23 years old, what will be the age of the boy? — Down The Rabbit Hole

I'm not sure why anyone would use this as some kind of sign of intelligence.

He was 34 when she was 17. If she is 23 now then six years have past. I'll let someone else do the math.

If you are intending a bad outcome then that is a good outcome. — Tom Storm

Do you have some sort of reasoning you could use to support this conclusion or is it simply something we are supposed to accept without evidence? Maybe you're just making a joke and if so I apologize for my poor sense of humor.

What do you think intelligence is so far? — Tom Storm

lol Idk. I mean I'd like to give you something but I suspect that it would be a waste of time. I think intelligence is probably connected to outcomes but I'm not sure because it might make sense to act in a way that leads to bad outcomes in certain situations.

It takes intelligence to figure out how to act in a way that will lead to a good outcome in so far as it is the outcome that is sought. — Fooloso4

But what is intelligence? Is it the ability to "figure out how to act in a way that will lead to a good outcome in so far as it is the outcome that is sought"? Or does it merely take intelligence to "figure out how to act in a way that will lead to a good outcome in so far as it is the outcome that is sought" in which case intelligence would be something else entirely.

It's the ability to work things out or determine the correct answer. — Down The Rabbit Hole

The correct answer to what? What do you mean by "correct"? What do you mean by "answer"? without some kind of context, even if only hypothetical, I can't really understand you. Can you provide an example? Please forgive me if my questions comes across as pedantic.

Someone might desire a good outcome, but what they consider a good outcome might not be. — Fooloso4

I agree in theory but I'm not sure what you mean given the previous definition you gave of a "good outcome". Maybe you have a revised definition by now and I don't want to assume that you're using the old one automatically.

Determine the correct answer. — Down The Rabbit Hole

Unless I'm mistaken it would then be impossible for any intelligent person to be unable to "determine the correct answer" because this is by definition the very essence of intelligence. Please correct me if I've misunderstood your position or the relevant information.

If someone intended to produce a bad outcome for herself that would not be intelligent. — Fooloso4

According to your definition of a "good outcome" there could never be a case of someone intending to produce a bad outcome for themselves because any outcome that is intended is by definition a "good outcome".

ability to work things out — Down The Rabbit Hole

Would you mind explaining to me what you mean by "work things out"?

A good outcome is one that is intended. — Fooloso4

What if someone intended to produce a bad outcome?

One of my favourite measures would be to the effect of "the ability to work things out". — Down The Rabbit Hole

Is this your definition of intelligence?

There are a multitude of measures of intelligence — Down The Rabbit Hole

But what is intelligence?

The ability to troubleshoot and fix a machine.The ability to assess a social or interpersonal situation and act accordingly. Acting prudentially to achieve a good outcome. — Fooloso4

I admit that your answer is intriguing but it's a bit vague and ambiguous. What exactly does "act accordingly" mean? Is "act accordingly" any different from "respond in an appropriate way"? How would you define a "good outcome"?

The ability to complete some task without being taught to do so,or solve a problem, or assess a situation and respond in an appropriate way (phronesis). — Fooloso4

Would you mind providing examples?

I guess the conventional wisdom is that people are divided into low IQ (at some point it is a disability) and high IQ (at some point it is genius level). — Tom Storm

If I'm not mistaken IQ is like inches or meters, A kind of unit that we use to measure something. We wouldn't say that inches are height but instead we would say that we use inches to measure height. it might be true that IQ is used to measure intelligence but intelligence would still be something else entirely. I'm trying to figure out what that "something else entirely" actually is.

I work in the area of mental health, suicidality and substance misuse so I am mindful of terminology. — Tom Storm

That makes sense. I'm sorry if I'm not using the most appropriate language possible.

What do you mean by something primitive? — Tom Storm

Sometimes people insult each other directly and indirectly instead of examining perspectives.

All I was saying is that the concept needs to be understood or elucidated before we do the measuring. — Tom Storm

I couldn't agree more.