I encourage anyone anti-nuclear to check out this documentary or film about nuclear energy and dispelling the prejudices about it:

However, how appropriate is it - on a philosophy forum - for someone to ask and receive more personal information whilst *puffing on a cigarette*, asking about wanting to have kids and then suggesting that:

wallowing is healthy. To wallow is to appreciate
— Wallows

This is just wrong.
There is just too much personal information being given out by the vulnerable.
I liken it to voyeurism. — Amity

I don't see what wrong is being professed by advocating some wallowing or talking about issues. Again, I liken philosophy to therapy, which you can find all the way back in Plato's allegory of the cave or in Wittgenstein's Investigations. And, about the wallowing. It's a harmless practice really.

Anyway, if you don't want to see me wallowing, then I suppose you can block my posts.

Well, I value the eclectic feel of intersubjective thoughts and opinions on the matter which is manifest on these forums. I don't really have money for a therapist at the moment.

I'm quite conflicted about the issue but it doesn't cause me to be anxious or anything. Just trying to be Stoically adept at the issue.

The deeper issue here is that I suppose, apathy and depression. I don't have the desire to establish a relationship with anyone. I'm pretty much a loner.

That's about it...

Essentially, I like Diogenes because he is a great example of how cynicism can be used but often goes to waste because people disregard selfishness as evil. Also, his antics give me a kick, and I'm partial to a bit of mischief as well. — TogetherTurtle

Haha. People remember you for the thing you don't do than rather do. Do you ever have that narcissistic urge to be remembered for something? I feel like the Cynics were essentially narcissists in their adoration of the good and ethics. There's a tinge of selfishness in living in society whilst disregarding everything it has to offer.

If you don't want them, don't have them. Doesn't seem like a problem to me. — TogetherTurtle

Well, we aren't machines here. There's an element of me that desires to be like everyone else and have kids, whilst disregarding the selfish urge to not be selfless.

I think I share that a bit. I don't really care much about my own happiness, especially when the happiness of others is at stake. I've learned to go a bit easier on myself though. It's hard to be productive when you're unhappy and being productive helps others. — TogetherTurtle

Yeah, I feel you here. It's apathy speaking on my part. I have to deal with it in my own terms. So be it I suppose.

I'm just glad I'm not complaining about nothing. — TogetherTurtle

Well, this forum has a tendency towards personal issues that go unrecognized in daily life. Whereas philosophy can be therapeutic for some, like me.

He had this weird way of twisting everything so that he was doing it for the greater good and was never wrong. He was wrong often. — TogetherTurtle

Yeah, being wrong sucks. And, all those psychological defense mechanisms can go haywire.

Maybe. I'm not too concerned with leaving my legacy behind in the form of children, I'd rather do it in a more important way. — TogetherTurtle

Cool, but, what do you mean by that? I'm much more concerned about my sanity than projecting my issues and passing my defective genes to a new progeny.

It's weird to put so many memories and events into such few words, but also sort of comforting as well. — TogetherTurtle

That's philosophy for ya. Hence, why I am quite addicted to it.

I don't think the weight of not having a father figure will ever just go away, but I can operate regularly (I hope) and can contribute to society so I think it's ok now. — TogetherTurtle

Well, I looked up your profile and your favorite philosopher is Diogenes. So, how do your Cynical philosophy with contributing to society?

It would be a shame for you not to have children (adopted or otherwise) because you seem fully fit to raise them. — TogetherTurtle

Yeah, I'm contemplating that issue as we speak. It seems to me that I have no desire to want to have children, so that's a big issue to overcome in my world.

If your concern is "knowing how to raise kids", I don't think anyone actually knows anyway. You'll be fine. — TogetherTurtle

Thanks.

Depression is another one of those self-fulfilling prophecy things. It's very hard for me to make plans with friends at all, and forget about talking to girls. Sometimes you just have to force yourself to do things you know will make you happy, even if you think you don't deserve them. It's a work in progress kinda thing, so try and stop wallowing and start exploring. That, of course, is easier said than done. — TogetherTurtle

Yes; but, wallowing is healthy. To wallow is to appreciate. I have grown content with all my issues and things in life. My psychiatrist is supremely frustrated at my lack of concern for myself and others except for my mom. Anyway, depression is a form of coping with the issues that the world presents. I don't think I will ever get undepressed. I have grown to like the black dog that never leaves your side. Society shuns being depressed hence so much anxiety over the issue. I don't like stress and tend to isolate myself from it. So, depression ain't all that bad. I'd rather be supremely depressed than deal with constant and persistent anxiety.

What failed with your growing venture, if you don't mind me asking? My best friend/roommate and his friends set up a substantial grow-op in our rental house basement all year and it was quite successful, a good 19-25 plants/clones and some good weed came of it. At one point every cubbord in our hallway was filled with plants HAHA. — Grre

Well, initially I wanted to grow indoors. Cannabis (indica) likes that high altitude climate where it originated from Afghanistan and Iran if I'm not mistaken. Sativas (green crack, kinda bad name; but it's awesome) are my favorite, despite them being harder to grow and have lesser yields than indicas. Indicas are just heavy hitters and have the best yields. Anyway, long story short, I couldn't grow indoors like I wanted to with Ceramic Metal Halide lamps, which are twice as efficient as the normal HPS lamps.

So, I grew outdoors; but, my dad at the time and mom were pretty much against the whole venture and told me to stop growing it. The laws are strange in California, counties ultimately decide if growing cannabis outdoors is OK or not. I live in Ventura County where everyone has a stick up their ass. Los Angeles is much more liberal.

I intend to grow inside my home some 16 plants to supplement our income to pay off the mortgage and stuff. I'm still working on convincing my mom about the whole thing. There's also the issue of high electricity costs in my part of the world. I wanted to save enough to put a solar array on my roof.

Best regards.

Sex really isn't that big of a deal and I think you are just putting it on a pedestal — Maw

Thanks. Its normal and my lack of it is causing me distress. I'm pretty indifferent towards the issue despite it being probably the most intrinsic urge of human beings.

Chernobyl — 0 thru 9

Yeah, there's a new series coming out from HBO about Chernobyl.

Have a looksie.

Go back to sleep; you're dreaming again... :joke: — Janus

The American Dream need a mention here. It seems we like to sleep a lot in America, despite all the amphetamine and methylphenidate we are feeding to American born kids in school who don't want to study. I heard the people in India don't even need to compete with foreigners they do that themselves. And, the Chinese are off the scale with their command economy meshed with mercantilist tendencies.

Yeah, your milage may vary. Set and setting also...

I'm surprised you have such a positive reaction to THC. Do you smoke pot rich in CBD? CBD binds to the 5-HTA1 receptor that mediates the stress response of an individual through the limbic system. It also is a potent antidepressant.

I tried even growing pot in my backyard. Some strains are rich in CBD, like ACDC or Harlequin or Cannatinic, which you can look up on Leafly.com . Give it a shot and see if it suites your needs.

Best regards.

I'll pass on having kids with you. — creativesoul

*Laughs*

You look like the crazy guy who gets all sorts of credit even though he could not get his own thoughts together. — creativesoul

Oh come now. Let's not commit the sin of dismissing hard work where it is due.

Guess that happens when you have all the right friends in all the right places. — creativesoul

I suppose so.

You've drawn a weird correlation between age and creativity... — creativesoul

Well, it's just that most breakthroughs in science or philosophy come at the age-range of 20-30. Am I mistaken here?

I'm sorry I'm at the beginning of this but I'm not sure what you're envious about exactly. Is it the fact that women in porn seem to be having fun in porn videos? — Alan

I don't know how to psychologize this issue. There really isn't much room to rationalize such a basic urge that is sex. I suppose it has to do with feeling depressed and impotent on my end. Namely, to emphasize the depression part, porn is filled with vigor, pleasure, or life. All that ooh'ing and ahh'ing kinda highlight that. So, maybe envy is a secondary more rational response to the primal urge to feel alive. I don't know. Can go both ways I suppose.

That all depends... what do you look like? — creativesoul

No. My kids are grown. They have kids and lives of their own. — creativesoul

Great to hear gramps. I always thought you were a youngsoul with all your proclivity for being creative.

Comes with plenty of practice I suppose. — creativesoul

Do you want to have kids?

My score is a nine. — creativesoul

Holy...

Anyway, you seem like you're incredibly resilient and cope well in high-stress situations. :heart:

Yea, nuclear fission energy with all its dangers and radioactive waste, is not really sustainable. — 0 thru 9

Well, here I disagree. Nuclear is remarkably safe and sustainable. The amount of nuclear waste is trivial (would fit in a football field stacked a meter high).

Anyway, I'm actually pro-nuclear. I've done my research on the matter and think it's pretty safe alternative to coal and gas.

Anyway, the real abuse was emotional neglect and the abusive tendencies of a male who did not know how to express his feelings in my view @TogetherTurtle. I hope you can fill in that void. I just wallow in my depression.

I've been pondering over the issue of having kids. I'm 28 years old, never had a stable relationship; but, paradoxically I don't feel lonely. Anyway, there seems to be a real narcissistic urge to want to have children. Like, one's accomplishments aren't complete and filled with the impending fear of death. I don't think I'll ever have kids. Maybe adopted ones to reduce total net suffering for at least some children.

Everything that you pointed out from experience seems to imply the above to some degree.

*Puffs on a cigarette*

Do you want to have kids, why or why not?

Addiction as medical problem? — tim wood

Predominantly, I think so.

Yeah, tell me about it. — TogetherTurtle

Tell me more.

Perhaps approval from the various teachers I had growing up felt nice, but love from them would have felt better. I think love is just stronger approval. — TogetherTurtle

There's only so much of that to go around. I feel sorry for the poor task (double duty) of educating and raising children in overpacked, sugar high, hyperactive kids that teachers have to deal with.

And we pay them shit salaries too.

Agreed. I would propose that each “tecreation” (product of technology) exists within a “spectrum of help or harm”. Some products, like lamps, have very little harm built into them. (Although almost anything could be used as a blunt weapon). Some things, like nuclear weapons, are solely for the purpose of killing. They seem unable to be “beat into plowshares”, so to speak. — 0 thru 9

Haha, I remember the idiocy of the "atomic for peace" campaign...

We are like the hungry ghosts of Buddhism. — 0 thru 9

Hehe, pretty witty statement there.

I honestly question if anyone ever thinks they are loved. — TogetherTurtle

Now, this is the proper response, although prematurely reached for some children. Perhaps, some Stoic or Cynical philosopher might nod their head in approval.

And, that's kind of the issue with love. It's often equated with approval. I mean, my elementary teacher didn't have to love me to show signs of approval. Kids don't get this and are rather indoctrinated that love is a supreme good, and then connect the dots that someone really cares about me or approves of my behavior when they are loved. Kind of a self-justifying circle.

Care is sufficient in such cases....

To necromance an old thread this is somewhat pertinent to the recent discussions popping about drug use, pleasure, and happiness, along with my own struggles with addiction...

I guess Schopenhauer would say that we are addicted to all these stimuli due to the hedonic impulse, which is misguided in the pursuit of happiness. We tend towards these addictive tendencies due to their salience of producing what is most pleasurable or satisfying. The heroin addict tends towards his or her addiction due to impulses that originate due to heteroreceptor internalization that is instilled through the first use of heroin. If you do the literature, it's actually nicotine that is pretty darn addictive, which I have adopted as a masking method of coping with more serious addictions due to my ADHD. It's a rather complex issue between dopamine and acetylcholine; but, to distill the gist of it, people with ADHD, anxiety, depression, and obsessive tendencies, which I've heard every male has obsessive tendencies, have a profound disposition towards the hedonic impulse, which is aberrant in their condition.

Some cope with alcohol, which is a rather stupifying drug is you don't mind me saying so.

It seems like a rather slippery slope to attempt to define the standard for addiction. — darthbarracuda

So, I hope I have defined the ambiguity when one starts slipping towards addiction.

My own personal struggles with treating ADHD, depression, and anxiety, have led me to believe that the issue of salience, which is governed by dopamine, is quite a pertinent issue.

Anyway, I hope I've jumpstarted a dead thread into existence with this input. There are countless other psychological factors at play here, which I will refrain from talking about due to the lack of knowledge I have about them.

Cheers.

. surely being raped by a parent and suffering through a divorce 17 should not equally be a 'one'. — csalisbury

Ouch. Sorry to hear. Yeah, the test is pretty broad and all encompassing. I thought it was pretty short being only 10 questions for the issues raised.

Wait till you see what our robotic soon to be overlords determine as what we really want. It will be spoon-feeding us drugs and blasting pornographic videos based on our irrational tendencies with respect to human desire.

Yes, I believe you are right. But, the generality of the question posed, leaves much to be desired in my mind.

Reminds me of that poem you shared a while ago about the gracefully watching over of our robot overlords.

I need a bit more than a word. — unenlightened

So, I'll elaborate since you've shown interest in the issue. Namely, given your antipsychiatry sentiment, and my affinity of the (unthinkable) assumption that people can just as well live without drugs or antidepressants or major tranquilizers and simply cope or change their circumstances, then why (according to the links you have provided and what you have said yourself) is it so hard for people to assimilate traumatic experiences, and instead experience some internal or external outlet in the form of psychosis, addiction, high-blood pressure, self medication, depression...

Basically, I'm asking if there ever can be a quantification done in regards when medication is necessary or not, if we cannot attain a state of homeostasis with regards to traumatic or (lesser so) adverse childhood experiences, and if we cannot, then why not?

So, I'm going to throw out my favorite word of the week, being "homeostasis", with yours being xyz... If I understand your reasoning correctly and the profound valence or salience of my favorite word of the week, then how do you interpret it according with theory and practice.

Forgive me if I'm clouding up this thread if your not interested in that concept at all.

Mrs un scored 3, and she was almost annoyed not to get more. She asked the same question. And the answer is that this is not a therapy, or even a diagnostic tool, but a research tool. — unenlightened

Well, I'm quite glad you aren't putting Mrs Un through therapy or that she needs it. Things seem to be going well in your part of the world.

It's not that neglect isn't a factor, at least at some extreme, it's just down and dirty convenience not to go into it for these purposes - we're not trying to actually measure your suffering. When it's therapy time, and we get to details, then of course it is important. — unenlightened

I see, so then that produces a skewed distribution of who needs what. And those whos wheel squeak louder will get the grease. Which, then would lead to a perpetual neurotic driven demand for therapy of sorts. Anyway, have you experienced this phenomenon in practice rather than in theory?

I can appreciate the thinking and optimism behind this, and your other posts. — 0 thru 9

Thanks.

Science, knowledge, and technological advancements have both a neutrality and a goodness — 0 thru 9

Oh; but, how the Japanese circa the end of WWII disagree here, along with the scientists that created the atomic bomb felt guilt and repugnance at their own creation.

Because we NEED IT, dammit, no time for politeness. — 0 thru 9

No, no, no... We want it. Needs have been met a long time ago. Wants and values are endlessly manufactured out of thin air. It's amazing really how malleable expectations are, and how this endless lack is perpetuated ad infinitum...

It is measurable ratio here: the injustice and violence that a culture unleashes on the earth, will be unleashed upon its citizens in due time. And will render such culture ultimately unsustainable on many levels. We are sawing off the branch we are sitting on, and developing more powerful saws every year. — 0 thru 9

Yes, let us hope we go electric in a short enough time.

But we are smart and inventive enough to learn from our mistakes and find solutions. — 0 thru 9

These problems are being passed on to the next poor fucks to deal with it. The can keep's on being kicked down the road here.

Our weakness is not our intelligence, but our stubbornness, fear, and isolation. These weaknesses are encouraged by the powers that be. But as powerful as they may be, it is not them who must be overcome. It is the ideology behind them that is antiquated, toxic, and overdue for a change... — 0 thru 9

Hmm, this is somewhat distorted. Homeostasis eventually tells us, through self-regulation that we have enough, yet we endlessly watch TV and other outlets that perpetuate our alienation and disenfranchisement with ourselves and others. And, this is why I dropped out of college. The noble institution that it once was has been perverted and subjugated to the demands of the economy. I see no solution to this problem. Perhaps, I need to become more religious to stave off the wallowing.

And, let us not forget that God is the ultimate solipsist.

And furthermore, a meaning-giving act is something most godly, holy and divine (good willing) that brings about happiness - a hallowing, whereas a meaning-removing act something most ungodly and unholy (bad willing) that brings about unhappiness - a wallowing. — Pussycat

Yes, a wallowing of sorts... But, there's something to be said about wallowing, coming from a professional wallower. In that to wallow is to appreciate and prioritize or value what one does already have. The act of endowing meaning onto the world is in some sense solipsistic and egotistical. As if the ant or pig, which we step on or eat, didn't have a personal life of its own, which it might as well have.

Thereafter, these defences are triggered by particular experiences sounds sights, or whatever, and thus one has a general stress, a PTSD like reactivity, and other defensive symptoms such as depression dissociation and so on. — unenlightened

3 for me. The questionnaire doesn't asses the impact of neglect, which is a comparative trauma of sorts. "Why don't you love me?"

Why is that unenlightened-san?

I still think about my two cats left in Europe when I moved back to the States 10 years ago. They're pretty old by now and approaching that age.

One was called "Chudy" and the other "Kiełbasa", which translates to "Skinny" and "Sausage" in Polish, respectively.

Good times.

And in a wider sense, how we should respond if so. — Inyenzi

I'm going to go on a limb here and say that should responses are pleasure driven. Once you realize this the map is fully defined and complete in regards to Schopenhauer and his pessimism.

If the good of our existence is not found in chasing pleasure, satisfying desires, fulfilling our needs, then where is it found? — Inyenzi

According to Schopenhauer in the transcendental and aesthetic, where the self diminishes and eventually vanishes into the horizon.

How should we then choose to find value in our lives? — Inyenzi

Yeah, first paragraph.

*cries inside*

Somebody please convince me that the system isn’t broken beyond repair, that we aren’t in complete sociological, economic, and planetary meltdown... — 0 thru 9

Well, on the bright side, you, I, and everyone else currently alive won't see the full impact of climate change. Most likely the next generation won't either. So, there's some time to prepare for the worst. I'm going to harp the Keynes saying that we're all dead in the long run. Kinda sucks; but, it is what it is.

Indeed.