There is not such a thing like emergence. Do you believe in magic? — bahman

I believe in Godel's Incompleteness Theorems.

Yes, but can it prove its own consistency?

So, consciousness is an emergent phenomena or not?

Yeah, I hold an attitude of refraining from prejudice on the matter.

Yeah, I don't care to change anyone's mind on the matter. You can lookup Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, the multiple testimonials of loud explosions going off from within both WTC's, traces of nano-thermite around the area, yada-yada.

I never really bought into the 9/11 official story after I found out office fires brought down building 7. It is a precedent for three skyscrapers to fall from fires in the history of structural engineering. The rebuttal is that the building was structurally "magically" damaged from falling debris from the north or south tower.

How would you cope knowing nobody in the near future would ever remember any of your achievements, personality, or even your very existence? — darthbarracuda

I wouldn't care all that much. I'm not an ego-driven individual.

Your post seems to only apply to egotistical and narcissistic personalities.

To rephrase your OP, one could ask why have children?

Anyway, my take on the matter is that people already live like this nowadays. So, with such a scenario as you describe, I think it wouldn't change all that much the fabric of society (at least Western society). Climate change is just one example. Another would be the very nature of economics. Keynes said that in the long run, we are all dead.

I don't really know what would change said predicament of selfish driven rational self-interest. It is ingrained in our very being to be selfish and look out for our closest sphere of interest.

However, there are some people out there that are concerned about this. Namely, people that are actively concerned about the future, academics mostly. Elon Musk is one example of a noble individual looking out for the future of humanity. Bill Gates devotes considerable time and resources to humanitarian needs and issues.

The intro to Blade Runner 2049 is something marvelous.

What prostitute did he spend time with? — Agustino

Actually, it seems to be a plural of a prostitute, meaning prostitute(s).

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/wires/second-porn-star-claims-trump-invited-her-to-hotel-room/

I know Trump frequently "lies" if you can even call them that, about insignificant issues. The media counts things like "it was the biggest crowd ever" as a lie - that's not a lie to me, and it's really insignificant - it's more of a way of speaking, as in "it was the biggest crowd ever". This is unlike other Presidents who usually lie about big issues - I haven't seen Trump being that kind of liar yet.

What are the significant issues he's lied about? Maybe stuff like the Stormy Daniels issue, but we're not sure yet what the truth is there. — Agustino

Yeah, this is the very decadent and slippery slope dilemma that America faces. Namely, that we've grown accustomed to having leaders get away with lying and hypocrisy.

Trump isn't a morally perfect person, for example, I think in matters of sexuality he has some important shortcomings, but in terms of getting things done, useful policies (like the tax & bureaucracy reduction), it seems that he's been doing well. Also, he's a very good cheerleader for America. — Agustino

Yeah, and I liked Bill Clinton too for being a great president; but, that doesn't pardon him for his misconduct with Lewinsky. Had Obama done anything in the slightest bit similar to Bill Clinton, then I think you know how the Republicans would respond. But, now we have a president that claimed that groping women by their genitals is an OK thing if spoken in a locker room 'banter' (what does that even fucking mean?) along with allegations that he spent time with a prostitute and paid her to keep silent. Go figure.

The dissonance is real.

Well, wouldn't it bother you if you had a president who persistently lies about, well, very important issues? As a person who likes Plato (I do, to great extent) and Stoicism (again, my guiding philosophy in life), then wouldn't it be an issue of some strong cognitive dissonance to like the guy under the tenants of those two philosophies?

Have you been reading Machiavelli as of recent?

Usually, the manifest form of what you describe as an inability to cope with life is seen in the form of learned helplessness, or more commonly known as depression.

There are ways to get out of that rut, just on a purely mental basis - as seen in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.

But, as much as thinking depression away sounds good, it requires some change in terms of lifestyle. I can't really say what change is needed, perhaps someone who is willing to listen to your problems (a therapist) or better self-care.

There are many therapies out there that can help cope with life.

However, there is an issue when one frames the question in terms of "coping with life" as if life is something that needs coping with. I mean, you can't change the world on a whim; but, you can change your mindset and beliefs about the world. It's not easy, and requires effort, and is best done in groups or in relation to other people so you have some reference point in terms of what is healthy behavior and such.

Just my two cents.

All of this leaves me with a rather simple question.

Are people inherently irrational? And, if so, doesn't CBT show that people can be less irrational if not more rational in regards to how they perceive themselves with respect to society and the world?

You read Feeling Good no? Quite a decent book. — Agustino

Yes, it's sort of a dialectical therapy with one's self. Just that you have to train your inner therapist to identify which feelings are a result of what thoughts and vice versa. It's hard at the start; but, pays dividends with time and practice.

I would say that CBT is primarily empowering. A patient feels like they can address an issue once they draw out the tables of initial thought, then analyze the cognitive distortion, and then engage in the cogntive distortion through a sort of REBT method. I think REBT and CBT are twins in some sense.

Then who would be paying to go to the therapist, or even better have the state pay for them to go to the therapist? — Agustino

Well, unenlightened posted a while ago about Open Dialogue in regards to more serious disorders like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. So, there's room for therapy. Just that CBT can be done at any time or moment of crisis for an individual.

Having read a book on CBT and keeping in mind the list of cognitive distortions mentioned in it, I have seen no mention in most CBT books, that activity is an essential part of therapy. Most often, one has a thought, professes an attitude of indifference towards the thought, and then analyzes it within the framework of identifying cognitive distortions. Of all the cognitive distortions that are of significance, emotional reasoning has to come up as #1 on the most difficult to treat.

And, that is rather miraculous in my opinion. That intervention without the need for (costly) supervision can alleviate one's suffering and pain in regards to depression and/or anxiety.

My only question that remains, is why aren't we handing out these books for free to people who need them the most based on the efficacy of treatment on said disorders.

I have also gone through a decent amount of fear for being labeled as a schizophrenic in the past. What scared me the most was the diagnosis itself and reading what kinds of behavior pigeonholes one into that diagnosis. The fear was not against anyone or anything in particular, but, was directed at me. The only logical thing to do in that case is to take the meds and hope that the problem goes away or some such matter.

I've done my fair share of reading about schizophrenia and there's a decent amount of evidence that points towards better patient outcomes for people off antipsychotics.

In general, people ought to be told how to live with a 'disorder' and not fight against it. I don't see much utility in telling a patient that they'll be better off if on a medication when the majority of evidence points towards better outcomes (in specific cases) when the patient accommodates or changes their lifestyle to accommodate for the disorder.

I brought it up because I spoke to a schizophrenic recently who had that delusion and it troubled him greatly. More generally, I brought that up to say that the way different people have function-impeding anxiety differs a lot. — fdrake

I think the deeper and more perplexing question is in regards to what scares the schizophrenic the most. It seems that the diagnosis itself is the greatest source of frustration and compels one to be anxious. Paradoxical. Some would rather have cancer than be schizophrenic. Such is the amount of fear and stigma associated with the process of labeling the patient with a diagnosis.

In other words, diagnosing seems to bring more hard than good.

Whaddya think? Sway you on UBI any? — StreetlightX

Very persuasive, eloquent, and factual. Couldn't ask for a better book on UBI.

Utopia for Realists: The Case for a Universal Basic Income, Open Borders, and a 15-hour Workweek by Rutger Bregman

Just finished it actually.

Now you need to put down the Crack pipe...

I see. The only cases I know of where a person does not have insight into their own pathology or disorder are unmedicated schizophrenics and psychopaths. Kind of nitpicking here; but, I don't think there are that many cases in general.

As to CBT, one has to already know that they need help or at least want to feel better to begin therapy.

That really depends on whether the subject has insight or not. — fdrake

I don't think it's a matter of insight, as long as the person isn't living on a stranded island in isolation.

CBT isn't just a set of thought exercises. It's literally cognitive-behavioural therapy. You are given mental exercises as well as actual activities that are aimed at making whatever disorder you have bugger off. — fdrake

I think you're mistaken here. To address a disorder, what comes first is addressing the distorted thoughts and cognitions arising from some set of circumstances. Once the patient has been convinced about the irrationality of said core beliefs about themselves or in relation to the world or other friends and family, then behavioral therapy can begin.

But, CBT, is effective as a standalone therapy for depression, anxiety, etc.

How do you explain that?

What does pure belief mean? I don't think mental disorders are just epistemic states... — fdrake

Yet, mental disorders can be treated by addressing thoughts with facts and reality testing against cognitive distortions. However, I agree that more serious disorders like schizophrenia would be more difficult to treat on a purely intellectual basis of cognitive behavioral therapy.

There are people who develop schizophrenia and anxiety through persecution fantasies largely from hereditary predisposition, it would be strange to equate self administered or clinical psychotherapy with biogenetic intervention, no? The 'root causes' are not necessarily the things that keep the disorder going - and all the things that keep the disorder going are not necessarily all the things that keep their sufferer from functionality. There's even a relevant distinction between root causes, mechanisms of sustenance, and manifest symptoms. EG: it's possible to work long term at an office without the symptoms of PTSD based on a boating accident impeding day to day function or drastically reducing overall life satisfaction, despite clinically still suffering from the disorder. — fdrake

I fail to see what you're trying to express here in regards to 'developing schizophrenia'. I know of no such cases, based on pure belief, that a person is schizophrenic, perhaps exempting the ingestion of compounds that could elicit such a state of mind.

There's nothing about schizophrenia and the resulting thought disorganization and delusional beliefs that can be ego-syntonic.

I had in mind more like the current president of the US.

Yeah, I don't think I need to point out the hypocrisy in this post and whom you seem to admire so much despite his narcissistic and egotistical personality towards everything external.

I have long held it against the many existentialists to not show courage and determination in the face of the ever-present angst and anxiety with respect to their own lives and seeing themselves in the future, not shaped by their own will.

I can confidently say that the lack of realizing one's will towards some external object is indicative of your level of anxiety about yourself in relation to the world. However, there are two ways to go about this problem. One is to focus on the process of building one's self-esteem by accumulating wealth, property, and other material goods. The second is to focus on nonmaterialistic things, or the 'good'. The first option is much easier to deal with because the progress is seen immediately and is more tangible. The second option is dealing with intangible abstract properties, such as virtue, ethics, morality, and everything else in the realm of what is considered 'the good'.

It's important to realize that it is much easier to display one's willpower with regard to some appetitive attitude of gaining power or prestige or finances. However, the inner truth or the inner realm of the human spirit is much harder to apply one's willpower towards because it is hard to quantify and only can be qualified when there is another to witness this change.

Off on a tangent, this seems true to a great extent in regards to philosophies of Cynicism and Stoicism. The Cynic has focused all his efforts towards the relinquishment of material desire (that which is outside of the self, and that which is good), where the Stoic is one who displays his willpower through achievement or good moral standing with respect to society (an 'impure' mixture as the Cynics would quip, of external goods with respect to good moral standing).

Which makes me wonder, do the cynics admire the Stoics? If not, then why should the Stoics admire the Cynics?

The Shaker communities were one such example, now extinct (they believed in celibacy). — Bitter Crank

The line of the year.

You can easily purchase guanfacine or clonidine online if it becomes an issue. Or even propanolol.

One of the most beautiful things that I hold dear is Kubrick films.

Can we pick critical philosophy as a start? Kant, say. — Dzung

Sure, go ahead. I have no ideas on how to analyze the issue, hence the OP.

My first question is why you weigh a philosophy (Solipsism) against a branch of psychology science (Cognitive distortion)? — Dzung

I would say because it's a logically sound belief to have yet incredulous to actually believe in. Hence, the question as to what's the whole issue about in regards to the process of belief formation (psychology).

Sure. But ↪Posty McPostface isn't interested so much in those situations, but finds himself in the situation where his anxiety feels constricting, unreasonable, and unnecessary. — unenlightened

The anxiety is unreal.

Does that mean that it's all made up in the head and has no real cause or need to be alarmed? If someone has all their basic needs taken care of, then is there any real cause or need to be anxious, or does Maslow's hierarchy of needs actually represent the needs of people?

I would like to say that depression and anxiety are not antagonistic rather they complement each other. One can be depressed about being anxious all the time or the other way around, being anxious over being depressed (my predominant state of mind).

The anxious utter cognitive distortion thought tells me: *If only I weren't depressed, I'd be able to do the task at hand.*

The depressed cognitive distortion goes: *If only I weren't so anxious I'd be able to get out of the house more.*

Two sides of the same coin?

Ah, those addictions. Demand being nurtured. Mine are, coffee, taking supplements (although this counts towards personal health), and some pot from time to time to sooth the mind. I already quit drinking alcohol altogether.

Looking good Erik. You look like an engineer or teacher/educator by the looks of it.

Who's the guy in your profile picture?