In regards to my last post.

Exept the GFC was caused precisely by investment into assests that were not revenue generating (housing), and speculative finance - derivitive trading on futures and so on - is almost entirely unproductive. And given that private debt stands currently at 156% of US GDP - 17% less than it's hight during the GFC and growing - you'd have to be completely blind to economic reality to think the 'stabilizers' you speak of are in anyway working. — StreetlightX

So, why didn't QE lead to much higher inflation rates? Or more simply, why is inflation so low in the US? Because most of the money is invested or held in offshore havens. If that money entered the money stream in terms of investments and loans, then what would that result in? Revenue and growth, I suppose.

I agree that neoliberalism is about turning everything that composes life into a tradable commodity. That sounds a good idea, but then always results in an opaque and weakly regulated system that is easy to game. So that is a huge source of psychic instability. It erodes personal or community level control. The economy becomes as impersonal and capricious as the weather. We become helpless in its tides. — apokrisis

Yes, but one of the foundations upon which the USA is a vigilant and informed public. That the Republicans keep the population vigilant with invisible enemies from within and outside the borders, then that's a political issue, not an economic one.

This is wrong on so many accounts. It doesn't mention the fact that there are automatic stabilizer built into the economy that prevents excessive debt from happening. Such as inflation. But, so what; that's a dream when you're in debt.

Furthermore, debt does not equal economic fallibility. For example, it took a lot of debt to make the Manhattan Project happen; but, then look at the results of that investment. Similarly, the technological revolution was largely made possible by military elements originating from the government (DARPA, etc.), a la Keynesian economics (which seems to be criticised and ridiculed here). Obviously, the military doesn't have a media outlet of their own; but, it doesn't take a genius to realize how much that America has produced from investigations and analysis done by the military.

Life 3.0

The real burden or failure of the critic of the current socio-economic policy and system is to provide a better alternative than that what we currently have.

We've seen what socialism and communism have resulted in, poverty for the masses. Should we try and revert to the gold standard and disregard the fiat system? I don't think so. Debt is a moral neutral. It doesn't enslave as people can default.

Regarding health, we do take a proactive measure to ensure it is in good standing, what's wrong with that?

In what way is utilitarianism more 'scientific' than other approaches? I was just talking to someone yesterday, oddly enough, who has attempted to model - in a very simplified way - virtue ethics. That seems entirely possible. Nor does Kantianism seem beyond (grossly simplified) analysis. If we are going to develop machines that become quasi-independent, as it looks like we are, then some sort of modelling of ethics would be a good idea, even if philosophically we may always say to ourselves, there is a remainder - an excess - whenever one tries to examine analytically an ethical judgment. — mcdoodle

Well, utilitarianism, to the best of my knowledge, was the first ethical theory to appeal to an analytic method, such as a calculus of utility, to determine what actions are right. I might have made a stretch towards claiming that utilitarianism appeals to a scientific method, maybe perhaps an algebra of sorts or rather a formalized system? I agree about the AI part.

I'm not sure what you mean. Utilitarianism does not entail emotivism and intuitionism (the two aren't compatible, either). — darthbarracuda

What I meant to say is that the ethical judgements and moral sentiments about circumstances or states of affairs originate from a sense of emotivism and rather vague non-linguistic intuitions, which are relative due to being shaped by cultural elements and such. How do you even begin to model that?

The felicific calculus would be a fine thing indeed. Here it seems someone has tried for a modern version: in Lander, South Carolina. — mcdoodle

That's certainly interesting, although I think we might have to derive the calculus when dealing with the coming advent of artificial intelligence. Interesting times to be around in.

Well, I view utilitarianism as the only ethical theory that appeals to a scientific method to derive ethical judgements and moral decisions. Possibly, due to the time and era when utilitarianism was envisioned. My personal hope is that one day we could work out such a calculus.

However, the economy doesn't get mentioned enough nowadays. The economy is a vehicle where utility is calculated and distributed among rational agents for their benefit. The starting premise of neo-liberal or conservative free-market ideology is that enlightened self-interest is what increases utility for all participants of the economy.

What are your thoughts about viewing utilitarianism as the workings of the economy nowadays? It's the closest example that comes to my mind although incomplete in the ramifications of utilitarianism as the economy itself isn't a rational actor working on behalf of the participants. Governments to a large extent do that with policies and rules imposed on market activity.

Well, the most straightforward rebuttal is the fact that we are still not yet at such a point where wants are satisfied in whole and complete if that is possible at all. One common rebuttal to utilitarianism uses the extreme example of a heroin addict who knows what he wants but can't get it or can get it and constantly uses it.

Then there's the issue that the starting premise of economics that wants are insatiable or relentless, which is the whole premise of the existence of the current economy nowadays. So, then even wants are impossible to determine by a person, let alone a machine. In other words, how do we even know that utility has been maximized? Only in extreme examples as the hedonistic heroin addict is utility thought to be maximized. Then there's the whole issue with particularly subjective measures about bias and favorability of one individual's welfare over another, which outright nullifies the greatest good principle.

Anyway, I much prefer ethical theories of Rawl's veil of ignorance due to not trying to objectify ethics in some sense, and instead refer back to the individuals and group of individuals together in making moral judgments. It also seems much more democratic than the utilitarianism government of-'knows whats best for you and don't argue with us'.

Therefore emotivism and intuitionalism with the theory of good being culturally dependent and relative, meaning in some sense postmodernism?

Yeah; but, aren't other theories like Rawl's justice as fairness superior because instead of making a single ownership type government like a techno-utopia where they own the supercomputer that churns out what is the best for all according to some unknown truths? For example, Rawl's leaves the ethical decision-making process to the individual, not a supercomputer.

And, I'm leaving 'ethics is good and good is utility' as a given here.

Dreams are indirect proof of idealism. That's what's fascinating about them.

When I got out I dropped all the anxiety and depression medication I was on, they didn't help they just made me feel slightly stoned, and I didn't like that. I am of the philosophy that I need my sharpest wit to handle the cards dealt. — Jeremiah

So, no meds for the delusions? How do you do that? I'm too scared of dropping my mood stabilizer to even consider what you did, although I did not take any medication for the depression and anxiety while in the military.

I was institutionalized against my will for having paranoid delusional schizophrenia and was diagnosed with severe depression with suicidal ideation. While I was there I had them give me a job cleaning up the grounds. — Jeremiah

Kudos, I'm in a similar boat. I was institutionalized by the military for mixed depression and anxiety; but, later came to terms with the diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia, which I found horrid and hard to accept (it was made even before the military attempt, which I disregarded and gave the Air Force a shot anyway).

I think I've tried in the past (my friend tells me I haven't actually tried anything in my life, which could be true also); but, am now kinda... well... givin up trying as much. Could be the mood stabilizer/antipsychotic though. I love Zyprexa for being such a powerful med; but, am hoping to change it to something else less sedating.

Do you mind if I PM you about these matters?

At my last job working service for small business banking one of my coworkers was blind. — Jeremiah

I think, going on disability for mental issues is in large part an issue arising from a sense of ineptitude or incompetence. Mainly depression I would say. Do you think so too?

A "cynic" isn't a type of depressed person, but is someone with a particular viewpoint. Being cynical is not a legitimate basis for not working I'd say. — Hanover

Then, just off the cuff, do priests or monks 'work'? As I think there's some gap in understanding between us about what constitutes a 'working man or woman'.

Ok, that makes sense. I was afraid you might go all right-wing on me and say that it would be better to kill myself as to not be a drag on others around me, as I have a right win friend who claims that they'd rather kill themselves knowing that they are dependant on disability and so on.

If you've followed what I said in this thread, my conception of work has changed. I no longer view 'working' for money; but, rather have money be something that I make as a secondary thing. Meaning, I'm quite interested in working and doing something I love and would feel proud of helping or benefiting others rather than myself.

I guess, what I'm saying is that I don't really care for money, not that this is because I'm on disability now and Uncle Sam will send me a check; but, it's been an attitude I've had for a long time.

However, your post still brings up another problem. What would you have to say to the clinically depressed person who really doesn't want to work or do anything other than ruminating in their bed or try and kill time online or on these forums due to their diagnosis? I'm starting to see myself falling in that category of sorts and no amount of talk therapy or money motivates me.

Is a Cynic weak for not working and spending time with others or just sees things differently?

That weakness shouldn't be a strength is just a way to avoid real life irony. I don't care if you resent it. — Hanover

So, being eligible for being on disability makes me weak or that staying on disability and preferring to do nothing would make me weak?

I'm just suggesting that our client use some caution. — Bitter Crank

Great, now I'm a client. How much do I owe you two? >:O

Remaining weak shouldn't be a strength. — Hanover

What's the motivation in making this statement? I've always resented that social Darwinian attitude professed by the right, in the U.S.

Thanks for the advice. I'm already on food stamps, and I believe I've applied for housing in my area. I also have Medicare or Medicaid (whatever covers drugs I get in full.)

Be sure that going to college doesn't undermine your claim to disability. Taking a full load or better and getting very good grades would kind of undermine your claim. (This would be relevant at the time of your review in several years.) — Bitter Crank

Yes, I suppose that is a concern. I will have to confirm that I can go to college and be on disability at the same time.

Yes, you can work and collect disability at the same time, but not work full time for years on end and still collect disability. There is a program for people who want to try returning to work. Your benefit level may sort of force you to work to make ends meet, at least part time, if your benefit level is at the minimum. — Bitter Crank

I figure cash jobs might be my best bet. Plenty of stuff to do for cash in California, now that Cannabis is legal.

As always, good luck. — Bitter Crank

Thanks!

Perhaps we've reached an impasse; but, isn't the practice of doing philosophy a form of therapy?

I like philosophy and I like participating in this forum. Eric, you are welcome here. But this is not the place to come to learn to deal with depression. Posty - it will surprise me if you don't agree with that. — T Clark

I'm surprised you hold such prejudice against philosophy. Coming from someone who admires Wittgenstein's therapeutic philosophy. Speaking for myself, here.

I've found deep comfort in philosophy, much of which is devoid in the everyday world.

Then perhaps fields such a psychiatry and psychology need some serious rewriting in terms of viewing the depressed as dysfunctional misfits due to maladaptive and illogical beliefs.

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy portrays depression as not only a bag of bad beliefs but fundamentally an error in reasoning about the world due to cognitive distortions as if there was a true and correct way to perceive the world.

Please keep in mind that there is a line (rather fuzzy) between clinical depression and with it, suicide that accompanies it, and the sort of depression some people experience while allowing them to function to some degree.

Of course not all of philosophy deals with angst and despair, but a lot of it does and depressed people are vulnerable. A lot of the people who populate this site are, as I said, introverted and self-involved. When you're feeling down, go somewhere happy. Don't hang around here. Call your sister. Get her to invite you over for dinner so you can play with your nieces. — T Clark

While I agree that philosophy does require some sense of sensitive mind and introspective mind, it certainly isn't a sine qua non to practice philosophy. I have spent quite a while interacting with many people here and on the previous Philosophy Forums and also noticed that people tend to fall into some sort of trap of self-enamorment/narcissism with pessimistic and nihilistic philosophies. I even professed your rationale of discouraging going into philosophy and entertaining the pessimism of Schopenhauer or what I understand the self-hating philosophy of Nietzsche, which is externalized in terms of blaming others instead of oneself, due to doing this myself when I first started philosophy.

But, philosophy is more than that, and surely anyone with a rational mind knows that after spending a decent amount of time entertaining various philosophies of great minds.

A depressive realist is hypothesized to have a better grasp of reality than the normal, and suffer moderate depression because of it. — darthbarracuda

I fail to see how qualitative value statements like 'better' or 'worse' contribute to understanding the POV of a depressed individual. I would say that it is a different frame of reference, not necessarily a 'better' or 'worse' one.

Of course, most depressive realists would never give up their perceptual capacities, probably out of some form of pride or ressentiment. Being depressed is never fun but occasionally it allows you to feel superior to all the "sheeple". But in general depressive realism is a form of neuroticism.

I don't think it is a form of neuroticism. It's just a deep mood about the world. The mood itself isn't a manifestation of a neurotic mind. If an unknown to himself Buddhist walked into a clinic and told the doctor that life is suffering and the source of suffering is desire, then should he or she be labeled as 'depressed' or rather in some sense 'enlightened'?

You sound depressed. This is a dangerous website to bring depression to. With the exception of a very few people, philosophy is more likely to tie your feelings up in knots than it is to bring clarity. Most advice you get here will come from other introverted, self-involved people. — T Clark

What makes you say that? I can speak from personal experience and assert that a lot of philosophy manifests from a feeling of existential angst or despair. But, that certainly isn't the entirety of philosophy. If one fixates on that, then yes, then there could be a self-perpetuating mental filter that just feeds on itself.

We won't live to see the devastating effects of climate change, combined with the runaway effect that could be entailed by methane release. In most likelihood, we will learn to adapt to the new state of affairs provided by climate change, at the cost of hundreds of billions if not trillions to adapt our cities and current infrastructure and agriculture.

What is known is that it will be a factor that accelerates climate change. I haven't read the study; but, there's also methane hydrates being released from deposits in the ocean and methane from the permafrost of the Siberian tundra.

Not a really good situation.

On the other hand, if your claim was bs, shame on you, but I have no reason to think that. — Hanover

*sighs of relief*

I don't know where you got that idea. I meant to say that I'm in no place to offer other people work if I can't d any myself.

One can fantasize, while on disability.

It's just that my quantitative understanding of 'work' has changed dramatically. It's really hard to return to a minimum wage job after seeing the gross profits some can make on insane margins importing goods from China and selling them in the US.

Meaning, that I no longer desire to do work for money; but, rather doing 'good' instead of the selfish aspect of making money at work.

Just for that matter, I work for a guy who makes 200k USD a month selling SARM's and etizolam online. So, my view of work has dramatically changed since working predominantly minimum wage jobs for 8 years.

I was afraid you would say that. I can't say that that is true. Time will decide.

It may; but, I haven't lived continuously in Poland for almost a decade. I don't know how that might affect my ability to establish residency in other EU states.

I might have to stick it out in Poland for a while before I can come over to Sweden or Finland. Norway is a place I would consider too depending on the inter-European laws they have with the EU.

My girlfriend is, and I was briefly on Job Seeker's and Housing Benefit (about 6 months).

If you need it then you need it. Nothing to be ashamed about. — Michael

Yeah, but I'm afraid the truth is I don't want to work. *gasps*

You don't actually "apply for residence", but rather you go there, rent a place, and then sort out the residence aspect. But to rent a place, the letting agent, unless you're very wealthy, will want to see that you are employed somewhere (or at least have a source of income, but being employed is more certain). — Agustino

Can a preeminently apply for benefits if I have such a status? I mean, I'm pretty sure official documents from the US of A would suffice or is this place to place dependant on individual law based country?