Maybe Forms for geometrical shapes or objects all reduce to more fundamental concepts like the Form of Line Segment or Angle? — Seppo
the Form of Apple, the Form of Triangle) — Seppo
Ich gelobe, der Bundesrepublik Deutschland treu zu dienen, und das Recht und die Freiheit des deutschen Volkes tapfer zu verteidigen
If something is beyond space and time, then where could it be? — Corvus
It sounds even religious. — Prishon
- The Shape of Ancient Thought, p. 10.… the Persian employment of Greek mercenary soldiers continued in the fourth century, as Xenophon’s story makes clear; and trade also seems to have continued through the fifth and into the fourth century by a route that went from Central Asia by a series of waterways and portages – Oxus River, Caspian Sea, Kyros River, Black Sea. There is some reason to believe that Indian ascetics traveled this route and interacted with Black Sea shamans, ultimately influencing Greek philosophy through Diogenes of Sinope, who seems to have brought Indian-derived ascetic practices into the Athenian philosophical milieu. It is perhaps through this route that an Indian yogi came to Athens to talk to Socrates, according to a story told by Aristoxenus and thus extant at least as early as the fourth century B.C., (ap. Eusebius, Prep. Ev., XI.3.8).
… and man, he said, was a part of the world; and good was of two kinds, our own good and that of the whole, and the good of the whole was more important, because the other was for its sake.
‘Now Aristoxenus the Musician says that this argument comes from the Indians: for a certain man of that nation fell in with Socrates at Athens, and presently asked him, what he was doing in philosophy: and when he said, that he was studying human life, the Indian laughed at him, and said that no one could comprehend things human, if he were ignorant of things divine.
‘Whether this, however, is true no one could assert positively: but Plato at all events distinguished the philosophy of the universe, and that of civil polity, and also that of dialectic.’
The math. forms are indeed not part of the physical world. But neither in an unaccessible metaphysical realm. — Prishon
I can't do justice to McEvilly's book, it is about 700 densely-footnoted pages, all based on primary texts, but worth knowing about. — Wayfarer
Vasubandhu was writing about individual psychology, not about the universe at large, but since his view is that the mind creates the world, the effect is the same. Each level of being is described as a level of consciousness. As in Plotinus, the overlap between ontology and epistemology is virtually complete. Each realm of being is created by the next higher one through what Plotinus would call a poiesis/theoria, a making through contemplating (p. 572)
We can distinguish two kinds of mathematical objects: concrete and abstract. For example, there are concrete triangles (like concrete "give way" road signs) and one abstract triangle, which is a property instantiated in all concrete triangles. The Platonist objects are the abstract ones. Some people think that the abstract objects don't "really exist", that they are just words or ideas in our heads. Yet these words or ideas express an objective similarity between concrete objects, so the abstract objects can also be understood as being in a sense "dispersed" in concrete objects. — litewave
At least in several countries, just like in my country, there was a referendum to join the EU. So you are incorrect. Or it's the part of history that you just brush aside in your argumentation. — ssu
Finally, I ended my comment with something that was more essential than the truth about the quote itself. But you ignored it. — Alkis Piskas
I agree that European integration has been a top down operation, but what you cannot deny is that a) it has been a successful policy in Europe (integration has happened) and that b) Europeans have taken an active role in it. To observe that there were differing opinions was natural. Yes, I don't object your point: also bankers had their agenda, the US did play a major part. But my only disagreement is that you seem to fail to see that their agenda is just one part of the larger picture, it simply doesn't explain everything. For a complex historical phenomenon like the European integration process one narrative with few actors doesn't explain it all. — ssu
If this is what Platonists believe, then where do they think that these objectcs exist? If it's not inside our physical realm then in what realm do these objects exist and do they move inside of it? — Prishon
I wouldnt stay unmoved, silent, and word free though. I would make contact. And shout it out! Let my thoughts give me a song. — Prishon
I need to roll this around a little. — Cheshire
But these are Timaeus’, not Socrates’ words. — Leghorn
Does anyone think the most astute Platonists of these times, being Islamic clerics and their Muslim followers are living an examined life in accordance to Islam? — Shawn
obviously the Emirate will be short of cash — ssu
It sounds like giving labels to the different species of thought. — Cheshire
This is technically a shorter paraphrasing of Socrates' statement, "I neither know nor think I know" (in Plato, Apology 21d).
I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that Greeks didn't approve of wisdom and money being exchanged for each other. I suppose they thought selling stuff was what ordinary people would do and so when the sophists asked for fees when imparting wisdom, they lost their distinctiveness as sages. Sages (wise folks) weren't supposed to care about dough! — TheMadFool
I suspect Socrates and Plato wanted it to be that way: ambiguous and open to interpretation. — Leghorn
We must declare that this Cosmos has verily come into existence as a Living Creature endowed with soul and reason owing to the providence of God (Tim. 30b)
I wonder: did he ever exclaim, as did his many interlocutors, in any of the dialogues, “by Zeus!”, or, “by Hera!”, or any of the other stock exclamatory theistic formulae? That would be an interesting topic of research. — Leghorn
the idea that philosophy is a "higher knowledge" they shouldn't be paid for is silly, for more than one reason. — Ciceronianus
Is that to say true knowledge is internalizing propositional truth into some refined state or knowledge is about a system/method/mode of thought? — Cheshire
Does anyone still think that JTB is a useful way of thinking about knowledge? — T Clark
It's interesting because it's contrary to a JTB approach to knowledge. — Cheshire
Or infinite task (i.e. the journey is the destination). A philosophos (seeker) is not a sophos (sage). — 180 Proof
if I recall correctly, Socrates in that passage attempts to distance himself from that natural philosopher, saying that Anaxagoras’ works can be so cheaply bought that the young can purchase them and learn these ideas without having to bother Socrates to learn them, “especially since they are so strange” that he would never espouse them. — Leghorn
"Know Thyself" implies 'to know that one does not know' with complete certainty — 180 Proof
I'm haven't read a lot of Greek philosophers, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is what Socrates was talking about. After all, like some fools, he was put to death. Does that make sense in context: — T Clark
Irrelevant as sophists too would be happy to receive financial assistance, no strings attached (donations). — TheMadFool
To know that I don't know is better than to think you know when you actually don't know. — TheMadFool
It is illustrative and obviously not a personal inventory of Socrates knowledge. Has this really been confusing people? — Cheshire
Philosopher = Sophist - Payment — TheMadFool