Logical conclusions are only to clarify right and wrong and consistency in the arguments or claims, but they will not cause actions or decisions or beliefs of the people who are using it. — Corvus

But if for example I have a desire to kill let's say. Can't Logic affect my acts at the end?? Can't I use Logic to realize that this psychological desire is purely wrong and it will make my life also miserable?? I still believe that Logic is a way as to tame our psychological desires and filter them as to act in our own benefit at the end! Our desires aren't always in favor of our happiness but Logic for sure is.
By the way interesting what you mentioned about Modal logic. Never heard it.

I am closer to Aristotle's definition for Logic though I don't agree fully.
For me Logic is mostly the ability that humans are gifted to use their minds to reach Truth. In every matter of their lives. Logic is the point that you reach after using mind and this point is Truth (at least closer to Truth, cause what actually truth is, is a different discussion). When you use pure Logic, you come to a point that there is no argument that can stand against it. So for me that is what I consider Logic. Like humans "searching truth engine" . If I can put it this way.
But my question is if that engine's work is cause of Intelligence or something else?

So you think it is mostly a genetic matter?

I don't see it as a myth at all. Logic isn't the cure for everything but for sure is what can lead people in happier lives. I agree that people are driven by their desires but Logic can play a huge role as someone to realize what are these desires indeed and which of them truly he needs to fulfill and what others are social made desires for example.
I see Logic as the only reason someone has on his life. And how he can affect it. Using Logic to react in all circumstances for a better life. It's his only tool as to rule over his life. The other aspects he can't control as genes, social conditions he was born, family etc. But Logic is the only way to react in all these endless circumstances as to have a happier life. Logic for me is human's strongest weapon and not a myth at all.

Racism exists in every human. It's in his nature cause of Ego. The thing is how everyone deals with it on his own. I m tired of hear blaming on the bad, evil dragon called the "System"! As if it is like a machine controlling everyone. Who the fuck makes that system at the end?! Who are the manufacturers? And creators of it? Aren't people? Who preserve it by their daily actions?? It's just how people choose to live their lives. Though I find it very interesting topic I disagree at the base it is. System is just an excuse for people to get rid of their own personal responsibility. To create the best form of themselves. And a very very convenient one.

Individualism and depression (even a light form ) are going together.If you choose to discover the most you can from yourself at some point you will face depression also for sure. The thing is to pass that state and then you will find bigger happiness. As Nietzsche insists those who suffered have the greatest potential. And biggest bad is absolutely necessary for the greatest good.
Plus it goes the other way around too. Those who already suffer depression are most likely to follow individualism. It's easier for them. So for me you can't have one without having the other.

But I didn't say not to take care of people. Even if that for me is a total selfish thing to do also. It comes from the love for your family. It's instinct and not something altruistic what Neandertals did for example. Simply your individual benefit its also the social benefit as to evolve. But that's not my point of course society should take care of everyone but that everyone should also contribute if he wants society to care for him. It's for his own individual benefit at the end(wear helmet, pay taxes for hospitals etc). The problem is that people can't understand it truly. That's a total different issue though nothing to do with freedom so I leave it there.

the requirement is often not because society cares about the individual; rather, it's because someone has to pay for taking care of them when they end up a vegetable, and the insurance companies absolutely hate paying for anything — James Riley

Good point. So it's a kind of society "selfish" thing to do. And it is fair don't you think? Society shouldn't have a way to get protected from individual stupidity? So laws offer that protection. Society has to win something too out of it. Seems logically fair to me at least.

Total individual freedom is an absolute illusion and can never be achieved.All of us we are defined by circumstances we are born in (family status, society, health issues, geographical factors, wealth etc). If someone wants to live in a society he can't do whatever he wants cause he affects and he is affected by other society members.If for example I feel happy and free just walking naked around city I just can't do it. Cause they will judge me,attack me, cuss me, I would find closed doors at jobs etc. Even if I wanted to live all alone in the mountains I would have to deprive myself from some of the things that I would enjoy in society(friends for example).

As in life you can't have it all, same happens with freedom. Freedom is just a state of mind and only in such way can someone approach it and still not totally. You just have to compromise and find the balance in which fields you are willing to "sacrifice" your freedom as to gain more freedom in other fields.Your personal happiness is the only goal so that's what you have to estimate every time you look for that balance. The more freedom you get in general the more happy you'll be, and the more happy you become the more freedom you get. It's a constant fight knowing that you will never fully win it.

I do wonder if part of the purpose of dreams is to enable us to gain experience without having to wait until experiences manifest — Jack Cummins

Really liked the way you put it there. It might be true indeed. Like soul signals that someone should try to get the general meaning of them. For sure there are much more to be discovered about them. It's like a whole unknown universe yet.

Really nice topic. For me they are like soul projections. Like a movie that is directed by soul in our mind's theatre. And we can learn a lot for us and what is best for us by noticing them. Its what mind does and its energy that fuels him when free human will is "dead".And I think that our subconscious self gets affected a lot by them even if we can't fully realize it. Remember how many days you had a bad feeling during the whole day just because of a dream!Just a dream "decided" for your daily mood.For me is really fascinating

If you had everything then you would have the fear of losing them

If I could bet on something it would be the existance of a type of energy that includes everything. All the information United.Like genes in people for example. And there won't be any past no future or any kind of time. Just Everything together in a united form of energy which includes all universal information and "history". I don't say that this happens indeed just saying my lucky guess. For sure though the term past is a human "invention". There isn't such a thing in Universe

Happiness is the only reasonable goal in life since death exists. As you mention Happiness can't be a permanent state. Happiness is a feeling. Life is a time line so the purpose is to feel happy as many moments as you can. For me is so simple as that. The state that human should chase is balance. To feel calm and peace which is different than happiness. The more you feel calm and you have balance in your life the more happy moments you will have. Since you can't avoid sadness you should take it as it is when it comes. To tolerate it and understand (as you also said) that it will pass so you have to be patient and not feel "panic" when it comes. You should just let it pass, observe it and try to reduce its bad feeling. Although Happiness can't be a permanent state Peace can be(at least more permanent) and when you are in that state you will have more happy moments. In conclusion Happiness is the ultimate goal in life. Happiness is feelings. So you have to chase them! Whatever gives you these feelings you should do it. But you also have to realize that you will never avoid totally sadness. When it comes just don't panic. Let it pass like a cloud as you say! If you do that it will pass quicker and sad feelings won't be so intense either. The secret for me is to find peace and balance in your life (that's totally personal thing there isn't any recipe).Peace will make you attract more happy moments and feelings. And Happiness is nothing more than feelings and yes it is the ultimate goal in life. The more time in your life you have peace the more happy feelings you will have.Happiness is just the final result of adding all these moments (time) in someone's life. Nothing more.

For me one of the main problems of philosophy is the way it is communicated to common people. That elite-ish shirt that can't rid of it. Even philosophers the way they express themselves seems to care more to remain philosophy that way. They see it maybe as a privilege of their own and a reason to feel superior than common people. Philosophy should be more active imo in things that can be done actually from the society and people themselves. Have more practical value and not so much theoretical. The goals must be closer to what people can actually reach and not so many idealistic promises that can never be fulfilled.At the end its 2021 how much more philosophical theory? For all these centuries people have almost said everything! There is always something new to say of course but for me it would be better if we could look back to everything that has been said through all these great philosophical minds and try to compose something that is actually doable! To care more about transmitting the Message to common people and how this would be to everyone (even those who aren't educated at all) and stop caring about how to make that message as fancy to satisfy our philosophical ego. At the end of the day we care more about the Message or for our Ego?

Exactly whatever we think as reality is based on our experiences. The amazing human mind the more it expands its abilities the more "reality" we understand. Human's reality in first stages of evolution is much more different than reality that humans realize nowadays. Imagine how much more of the reality we started to understand with the help of technology and scientific tools. The things that human's senses couldn't see or realize before (so it was an invisible non existing world for us) now with technology we can see things even if our eyes can't. That's all achievements of our mind. And I truly believe that human mind has much more abilities but we aren't capable to unlock them yet at least. Every scientific progress is an idea in someone's mind first. I have strong belief that there are much more things that our minds are capable of but maybe the way we are taught to use them since our birth limits them. Still I m not sure that we will ever be able to understand fully the actual one and only universal reality and how it works. But for sure our curiosity is so huge that we will never stop trying.

For me it's impossible for humans to realize the actual reality. The General Picture. Cause of the way they are made from nature. They just don't have the ability to realize it. It's like fishes. Their reality is only sea! They can't imagine what's going on out of it! So the whole "universe" for them is sea! I really believe that there must be many other dimensions but people can't "see" them. So human reality is only reality for humans. It is way too far than what reality actually might be. Human reality is just a matter of senses. That's how they perceive it and restricted for sure.

Prejudice is the root of racism and since humans born in societies and prejudices is all people meet since their birth. All people are racists cause of their Ego. The thing is how many of them are logical enough as to take control of that racist instinct they have. It is the need to find even one man to feel superior over him

For me Nietzsche is more dealing with human's Spirit and what that Spirit can achieve and not so much with psychological aspects. Don't know maybe I have a different view of what i consider psychological philosopher. It's more close to Freud in what I mean. But these lines arent clear.I can see though in what way you consider him as one

I can't categorize Nietzsche in psychological philosophers. He is one category on his own but I can't see him as psychist philosopher. And Dostoevsky? Hmm I don't know if I would consider him as philosopher. He was an amazing writer who was indeed emphasizing in human's psych and drama but philosopher? I don't know for sure

Since it is a thread about psychology and philosophy I would like to ask. Who you consider to be the greatest psychist philosopher??I don't know if you consider Freud as philosopher too but except him who else you think as one of the greatest psychological philosopher?

If there was red zone for philosophy then it wouldn't be philosophy. Blaming philosophy for psychological problems is like blaming cars for car crashes. If someone wants to commit suicide cause philosophy "destroys" his religious beliefs for example and now he can't handle it well that's his own personal responsibility to find something else to believe in (maybe in his own self for start?). And why don't you mention how many people are saved from philosophy! How many escape from suicide Cause of philosophy. If people can't stand philosophy it's just cause they can't stand themselves eventually.

Cause of Death. Even if it's clear still humans can't comprehend with the end though they know it sunce their birth they still can't really accept that they will end. So they need to use their Ego as the antidote for Death.They desperately want to feel that their Existance actually matters for someone "out there" and what more convenient for that someone to be a powerful God exists who cares and has plan for them. Plus they will have someone to ask for things and not demand from their own self only.Great excuse for them. For me death and God are the two sides of the same coin. And Ego is the coin.

Morality should be referred to Happiness. Whatever makes you happy is moral! Morality can't be considered something that you should kill your Ego as to have it! And morality connection with religion and someone should try to like like "monk" as to be moral is one of the most important reasons that human societies are the way they are. Morality must have a Ego benefit as someone to be convinced to follow it. Especially those who don't believe in God. And that egoist motivation can only be Happiness. But imo as I have written before people have a catastrophic aspect of what Happiness means. They have totally connected with materials and idiot social stereotypes. If someone realizes for example that living a moral life is mostly a benefit for his happiness that has nothing to do with material then he would realize that it's for his own good to act like that. Moral would become a totally egoist thing to do! For example if I decide to fight my way through work or whatever without deceiving others but with my own power without asking for favors or trying to make others fail. Even if I will provable see others achieve in such sneaky ways and me be left behind (cause that's how usually goes unfortunately). I would be so proud of myself that have achieved everything with my own powers and proudly that this feeling of self respect would give me such satisfaction that no job promoting could give me! Cause the people who act in slutty ways deep inside them they feel the shame for their actions and with such shame noone can reach Happiness even if they act that they are. Anyway this was as an example to make my point clear. Morality should be redefined and not by religion rules but from Happiness rules! But as to do that humans should first redefine Happiness. That's my view at less though I know that it most probably will never happen

All humans existential elements first appeared in space. In planets, asteroids etc. Water, oxygen,molucels everything. We are spacedust as they say. No one can't deny that

We come from space.Our existential elements first appeared in universe and then combined in a humanish way. We are animals with high minds abilities. And I don't think we necessary have to go anywhere particular. We will just continue to exist as long as we can. Existance is where we allready are. We don't have to move anywhere else

About drugs I would like to add also a question here. if mind effects of drugs like lsd, cannabis and others. I mean in the way they interfere with minds and how they make them work can at any case been considered of "indication" of minds abilities that people aren't yet aware of? I mean since drugs make your mind work in such strange way (I don't take side if that bad or good) doesn't that shows that mind is in fact capable of working In a such sensefull way but maybe cause social mind programming that people are getting from their baby bed make humans use mind work in a certain typical way as it is now? Drugs make it work in such way cause mind CAN work like that indeed or else it wouldn't be possible.

Ok got it now

Pneuma is the exact word indeed

Sorry but I think I got it all wrong in what you mean. I don't understand still. So you believe there is Soul and when soul is in "good mode" then spirit occurs?so spirit for you is as Banno says another name for good actions?

Noone but yourself. At the end you are the last person who pulls the trigger of your actions and decisions. Blaming others is just finding excuses for youself to avoid your own personal responsibility. And worst thing is that you lose precious time to push yourself to grow bigger

As long as death exists Happiness is the only Logical goal for humans life.The way someone will achieve it is a total individualistic process.There is no recipe

So for you Spirit is the impact of Soul in human actions? How Soul express itself through it in a way that can be "seen" in how people act with others, with themselves and with society in general? Did I get it right or you mean something else? And if yes in what way you believe this soul expression takes place? Through mind maybe?

Talk about stuff that is not understood? That's the history of filosophy. To approach things that aren't understood.Talk about the obvious is boring

Yeah but don't ever drain your life out of magic totally

Only the existance of Soul could make recarnation's arguments kind of stronger. In a sense of an infinite type of energy that contains all elements of human personality and how it gets transformed each time it reacts with the "recarnated" person. And every time someone dies this type of energy could get immediately at a new born baby the very exact moment it is born from its mothers belly. The time it takes its first breath that breath to be the soul recarnation of the other person who dies. His last breath. Though i believe in soul I don't believe in recarnation by the way

The real question is "will ever logical people will outstand in numbers to others? Or it won't never happen?" if yes then there is hope that at hundreds of years after people will be able to push politics too in that direction. So they will come to a point to realize that noone can own something that can't keep forever!and what is done is done!end of story. You can't change it simply! So what you do next? A country B country conflict for land. The undeniable right is (the right that country's C citizens for example would recognize) on country's B side. But country A is stronger (in all fields) so that will Never change! So if I were in country's B position and If I really wanted to solve the problem! Or else as logical I would realize that it will never never solved otherwise and that impact for my country's citizens will never get improved (economy, wars, life conditions all). So the Most logical thing to do is to realize that I will have to accept my Defeat! (I know that you will come for me for that). But yes I would accept that I have to lose if I want to improve people's life! So the critical point is to give all my "power" to gain as much as I could while losing. To achieve the best worst conditions!wherever land conflicts ended for whatever reason people's life conditions got better for both at the end! I know that the actual reality things are muchhh more complicated. But I m talking about the logical thought root that will turn human efforts to that side. Plus don't forget what was my hypothesis. An idealistic world that logical people will be more so the political plan would be allreadyy announced to citizens from the start.As to know what they get.take away the Excuse from them!So it will be their decision. In fact maybe that will need much more. Let's say 70-30%. I know that probably of course that will never happen.

I wouldn't guess that.More like classical music I would bet my money on

So I guess you don't believe in Soul either right?

The point is that I haven't realized what you meant till now. So Spirit isnt existing at all for you. It's just another name for breath. Or like the "mythological" transformation of breath through years in history