Knowledge is what we experience and what we believe to be true. Anything else is opinion. And then there are lots of things that we do not know. — Apollodorus

If we know that “knowledge is experience… etc”, then our knowledge must be outside of of our experience, and what we believe to be true. Otherwise what you say amounts to your experience, and what you believe to be true. Your observation of that… ? The same, as it is “knowledge” according to you.
Yet we know we can draw conclusions based on things we have not experienced. Like your analysis.
I think knowledge is part and parcel of the Truth, and either we want, the truth, or what we believe/accept is the truth

When it comes to things like consciousness, how it operates, and how it produces cognition, perception, experience, etc. it is all guess work. — Apollodorus

By that logic, everything is guess work.
Can we think of anything that is “true”?
If yes, how did we come to know that it is true, as opposed to being not true?
If we can’t think of anything that is true, then even that
Inability to think can’t be thought of as true.
So where do we stand, and what in fact is knowledge?

Does the vaccination actually immunise folks to covid 19?
If we are not sure, why would we take it?
If it doesn’t, why take it?
If it does, why bother if others choose not to?

How is it possible to be a “non-committed” theist?
Are you a theist?

Those beliefs you mentioned all come under your worldview, based in your experiences, interactions, and observations.
IOW I would maintain that your main belief/worldview shapes the whole of how you perceive and interact with the world around you.

I don’t “bitch” about atheists
I just tell it like it is

Never claimed to be.

So are you a functional member of a religious community? — baker

Not at the moment. You?

It's about necessity as it relates to divinity. You can start a thread about God if you want. Just make it philosophical. ”Religion bad” is not philosophy. — frank

Good religious knowledge is superior to philosophical banter IMO. But I get your point. :smile:

Which per se doesn't suffice for religious membership, and God belief without religious membership is worthless. — baker

“Religion” and “theism” aren’t necessarily connected, anymore than formal education and living a materially successful life.
Religion is, at it pure core, education for the spirit-soul aspect of our being. It can get you to the point of self-realisation quicker, in general, than following your own path.

I think there are some insightful and committed atheists right here in this thread and also some theists and we seem to be getting along ok. It's possible to acknowledge the gulf in perception without trying to drag everyone over to one side or the other. — Cuthbert

Apologies Cuthbert, I’m used to discussing with aggressive atheists.Hlad to know not all of them are like that here

1. The beliefs based on the rational or inductive knowledge such as believing that flying is a reasonably safe form of transportation or Covid vaccines will protect the takers from the infections. — Corvus

Most people don’t have to believe flying is reasonably safe, unless the rate of accidents go up. Or they have some personal reason to go the point of having to believe. May be when flying first became something that was possible, most people didn’t believe it could be possible. But after so many years, we know it is possible, so no need to believe.

With regard to the covid vaccines, it is not the vaccines that are the problem. It is the governments, scientists, pharmaceuticals, and main stream media that people believe, or not.
I would say that belief or lack of belief only applies to other person.

agree with what you say about relationship not existence being the issue for theists, I made a similar point in the thread somewhere. — Cuthbert

We have to be careful . Atheists talk as if their position is the normal position, and all other positions are to be proven to be true. Or else they are correct.

Some atheists want us to comprehend that it is mere comforting delusion at best and wicked trickery at worst. — Cuthbert

Because they are without, or lack belief in God, they can view God as a concept.
Because they God can be anything they choose to conjure up, it must be like that for everyone.
They basically refuse to see past their own comprehension. Their choice.9

The position of 'you guys just can't see what's obvious' is all too common in debates on religion. — Cuthbert

Notice they’re not real debates because they do not acknowledge God at all, unless they comment on God’s call to kill. They don’t mind that.
If you cannot accept, for the purpose of discussion, God, it ceases to be a debate, or a nice discussion about God.

1. How have you arrived at your belief that God exists? Was it after some theoretical or logical proofs on God 's existence or some personal religious experience? Or via some other routes? — Corvus

Didn’t have to arrive at it.
I arrive at doubts, and contrary understanding of God.
Any kind of proofs, evidence, or explanations came about as an alternative to ground zero. Theism.
“Religious experiences” are simply experiences. We have different experiences when eating food, but it does not take away from the reality of eating food whether you have those experiences or not.
Religion is just a way to 1 remember God always, and 2 conditioning of the self via rituals, observances, control of the senses, etc. Most religious institutes have long gone away from that.

2. Why do you try to prove God in a theoretical / logical way, when already believing in God's existence? — Corvus

Good question!
Theists don’t believe in “God’s existence. They believe in God. There is no need to believe in the existence of anything.
That would be like relating to your child, friend, wife/husband only because they exist.

The idea of whether or not God exists occurs from someone who is atheists, or agnostic.

Another thing is that God doesn’t “exist” in the way we, or anything that exists. God just is.

About trying to prove God…
It’s such an easy thing to comprehend, at least to the theist, we want atheists to comprehend it, instead of tying themselves up in knots.

Start from God, and you’ll find there’s no real mystery.
Start from nothing, and you’ll end up with nothing.
Either way, you take a leap of faith.
More important than existence, is our innate knowledge of it. How do we determine that something exists, and something doesn’t. Existence occurs through the mixture of will, and the control of natural forces. Nature sure isn’t going to produce a pocket watch. Common sense alone will tell you that. An intelligent agent can bring into existence a pocket watch. It can bring forth millions of pocket watches.
Lay all the components (head start), I have a feeling a fully working pocket watch will not become existent. And that’s if they even remain in the same place. Simple obvious logic, but a good place to start on your quest. Sometimes I think atheists don’t want to know about God. Especially looking at some of the comments on here.

Did you want to talk about God? — frank

I thought the thread was about God.
But yeah, I would like to talk about God if anyone is interested.
I take it the majority here are atheist
/agnostic?

:up: :grin:

Hey Frank.
Where is the reply button?

It's just a power play.

Interesting.
But what does it have to do with God?

What does that have to do with God, or Religion?

Are such people normal because religion doesn’t cloud their mind? Or are they just normal?
A species of sorts.

Depends what you mean by “evidence”.
Strange, yes.
Unnecessary?
Depends who you’re talking with :smile:

Existence is merely a aspect of God.
We only think we exist.
There is, in reality, no past or future.
Only the present.
Every moment passed, or to come, is an illusion
If God Is, then like us, He can exist.
But He exists in the same way that someone can account for hearing that tree fall in the forest, either by being present, scientific analysis, or common sense.
In spite of all of this, God has to be, in order to maintain this.