Perhaps we go to the Boris Johnson thread again? — ssu

There is s possible world where Boris gets in, fucks up again, and they bring back Liz Truss. :lol:

If you're unable to answer pertinent questions on a thread you started, don't start the thread. Anyhow, I'm out and will leave moderation to others.

NOS was brought up in a state all his life, enjoyed all the benefits, but somehow managed to avoid getting one of those "state moralities" that he says we have. He seems to consider his non-state morality to be one of those things you can just refuse to define and whose origins require no theory or explanation. And in the same breath claims:

I just want to talk about this stuff. — NOS4A2

The evidence suggests otherwise. But we'll try again for the third time.

What is a "fully developed morality" and where does it come from under your view? Do you see it as present in most human adults in roughly equal proportion regardless of historical, cultural and political context?
— Baden

Address the role of social, political and historical context re morality. Address its origin. — Baden

elaborate rationalizations. — Mikie

I wish. There's not even that. So far, utterly devoid of developed arguments. Says stuff, doesn't know what he's saying, can't back it up. Two-dimensionally political from every angle. That's why his threads are generally a waste of time.

Again, you are saying nothing. Obviously morality pertains to conduct and behaviour and develops with age.

Here's the question:

What is a "fully developed morality" and where does it come from under your view? Do you see it as present in most human adults in roughly equal proportion regardless of historical, cultural and political context? — Baden

Address the role of social, political and historical context re morality. Address its origin.

I'll repeat the question:

What is a "fully developed morality" and where does it come from under your view? Do you see it as present in most human adults in roughly equal proportion regardless of historical, cultural and political context?

If you can't answer this, you have no basis for anything you've said here.

There's a naughty chubby lad with messy hair and even messier morals waiting in the wings and ready for a return to action! Hi, ho, silver!

they have fully developed moralities — NOS4A2

What is a "fully developed morality" and where does it come from under your view? Do you see it as present in most human adults in roughly equal proportion regardless of historical, cultural and political context? Or what are you trying to say? Please elaborate.

Annnnd she's gone.

Whether she's got to the exact number or not, she has no authority left and the Tories are in full panic mode. I'm sure he'll explain the inevitable to her.

:smirk:

I'll give her another 30 minutes in office. The clock is ticking...

Maybe the most tragic part of this is Jacob Real Snob turning full thug and physically bullying backbench MPs into voting with the government. Guy looks like he couldn't push over a daisy and suddenly he's a Victorian hall monitor. Smh.

I was hoping she'd survive until the next election because she's so absolutely awful, she'd bury the Tories. But, yeah, I reckon, we'll get a lunchtime announcement of her political demise.

Out by the end of the day.

We have tried law .... but the result is nothing to be proud of. — NOS4A2

Please remember this line the next time you try to pull your "law and order" stuff. Not so much "defund the police" as just get rid of them completely. It'll be fine, really. :lol:

It is interesting though to poke at this sentiment: Why must you be governed? I have manners and conscience, which are constant and impregnable, you clearly do not. Isn't this self-righteous "I", reflected in the social, the kernel of all "us" vs "them" mentalities? No doubt many of the rioters that attacked the Capitol believe they don't need to be governed, that they have manners and consciences, and were doing only what was necessary to protect themselves from the corrupt "other" and its "state morality". Sweep them back in time and they are a tribe of Plains Indians or Vikings, fully equipped with manners, consciences, and compassion (for their own), securing and protecting their interests; the torture, rape, and terror only a different level of necessity. We may even turn NOS's thesis on its head and say those who say they don't need to be governed, demonstrate the need for governance most as their projection on themselves of a false exception proves most pointedly the need for common rules. Of course, I don't need to be governed, I am of divine moral purity and have no need for state morality; it is you, the plebs, the evil ones, who require external constraints...

I don't object to a charitable reworking of the thread. And hey, the plasticity of individual morality and social norms in the face of varying societal and environmental contexts is an indelible mark of the adaptivity that has made us the undisputed kings of the animal kingdom. So, we need not be governed but we are better when we are if we define "better" by such prosaic considerations as security, health, life expectancy, shelter, etc. If, however, one's Trump card is "freedom" then one may take a long walk in the woods and just not come back...

Incidentally, the fact that people in states have the luxury of presuming that people in general are cooperative and kind etc and can get along without states, as @NOS4A2 supposedly believes, is itself a great argument for the existence of states. This pollyannaish illusion could never last long without them.

Is it the case that this kind of political discussion hinges mostly on a judgement made about human behavior? — Tom Storm

It hinges on a fairly basic understanding of human behaviour, biology, society, culture, and history. There is no "manners" or "conscience" DNA that separates us from other humans who routinely tortured, raped and killed each other when it was to their advantage to do so. Our sense of ourselves as subjects, our experience of individuality, and our sense of morality may vary but are predominantly socially constructed. And the state is an intrinsic part of the social machine that has constructed us. It's entirely disingenuous then for this manufactured subject to imagine it can lift itself out of its own moral boots by its own moral bootstraps and declare it has no need of the source from and through which it speaks in any coherent moral tongue.

that he was not being honest? — Paine

:zip:

Keep in mind, anyone tempted to give this thread an ounce of respect, NOS's mannerly folks with consciences who wouldn't dream of messing with your garden and who resolve all disputes through the friendly use of reason and so don't require authorities to control them include his neighbourly libertarian buddies who ran riot at the Capitol, beating up police officers and threatening to kill those inside... Because an angry orange man told them to.

NOS should write a post-apocalyptic movie script where everyone is polite to each other and everything works out just fine and dandy. He can call it "Nice Max".

I think it is extremely rare that people think they need to be governed, as if they had no conscience, manners, or instinct. — NOS4A2

Where do you think conscience and manners arise from? Do you think they're magic universals breathed into our beings by sole virtue of us being human? Isn't it obvious they're socially contextualized with part of that context being that we live in highly structured states? The Plains Indians were about as close to stateless as described by your delusional utopia. As it happens, they tortured their enemies to death as a matter of routine. Yes, they had consciences and manners, just not any that someone like yourself, riddled with state morality, would recognize.

I don't feel like this is the way I want to live, considering that human beings have their own internal morality and, especially as adults, already know how to live and how to behave. — Silvia parmigiani

Reads like satire.

Prefer this:



Music has no borders. :cool:

Banned @Deus for low quality.

The only problem with Russia is the nukes but should we really worry about that when it's time to kick ass? :fire:

At least when it comes to your own country, the UK, they (the British Army) have had the decency to call afterwards the events in Northern Ireland an insurgency (if during the time it was referred to "The Troubles"). But the British at least upheld the common law and what the UK stands for" — ssu

Incorrect.

"Operation Demetrius was a British Army operation in Northern Ireland on 9–10 August 1971, during the Troubles. It involved the mass arrest and internment (imprisonment without trial) of people suspected of being involved with the Irish Republican Army (IRA),"

"The policy of internment lasted until December 1975 and during that time 1,981 people were interned;
...
"The interrogation techniques used on some of the internees were described by the European Commission of Human Rights in 1976 as torture"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Demetrius

The latter ruling was later controversially revised, but this was no common-law holiday camp.

:pray:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/yougov-poll-labour-lead-conservatives-tories-n90lqlgf7

:lol:

I tried with Trading212 — Michael

That's what I use. I just lost a tenner because of the international cabal that watches me when I press a button and makes the market move the other way. :sad:

Yes, was thinking of shorting but you never know what they'll do next. The volatility is ridiculous. Moving like a meme coin :lol:

Tories are usually a bit more subtle about their social engineering. But this is the Liz Truss who thinks you plebs don't show enough graft. Maybe the idea is a choice of graft or freeze.

Btw, now the BoE is buying bonds to stop interest rates getting completely out of control. Sounds OK until you realize what that will further do to the value of Sterling. Below dollar parity by Christmas is my bet.

State they can't afford inflation-matching pay rises for public sector workers but borrow a ton of money (while interest rates skyrocket on repayments) to give the rich a massive tax cut > Respond to the markets subsequently fleeing sterling due to said bonkers policy by asking them to be nice.

Something's got to give. I expect the path of destruction will go: Sterling, the economy, house prices, and only then, the Tories.

And you can read a different book if you like, but educate yourself.

Ah, duck it, we both know that's not going to happen.

Just admit you don't have a clue how any of this works and are just looking for pro-Trump anti-Biden points because that's all you ever do here.

To paraphrase Bernanke:

"Trump is a selfish fucktard who demonstrates the importance of Fed independence from politicians seeking monetary policy changes for their personal political benefit while flushing the interests of the people they are supposed to represent down the toilet."

Even a libertarian can be right sometimes.

No one's batting for Biden, just pointing out how stupid the reference to Trump's "low-inflation economy" is seeing as the bird brain was begging for inflationary policies since he got elected and celebrating when he got them thanks to COVID. If you'd stopping kissing his feet for a moment and look up, you'll find a fellow libertarian telling you the same thing.

The author, Bernanke, is a libertarian Republican but thankfully this is not a particularly political book, more a primer on some basic economic concepts as they pertain to recent history.

A good book that explains this stuff is:

https://www.amazon.com/21st-Century-Monetary-Policy-Inflation/dp/1324020466

Pretty much. Inflation is a result of the Fed stimulus along with supply chain issues and is a lagging phenomenon that started in the Trump admin and continued on into the Biden admin. Neither Trump nor Biden could really do much about it as they don't directly control the Fed or the events which caused the Fed to stimulate. Ironically, before this all kicked off, Trump had called Chair Powell a "bonehead" for having interest rates too high (which was necessary to control inflation) and praised him as his MIP ("most improved player") when he cut rates and turned the money printer on (thus causing the inflation we have now). But of course, Trump is a fool as are any readers of the Hertitage Foundation's "analysis" that take it seriously.