Why is it a mess? The NI assembly has a significant pro-EU majority and (when sitting) will very likely vote to keep EU rules every time. That's why Ireland and the EU agreed to the deal. Nothing's likely to change.

Unless of course they banking on reunification with Ireland soon. Maybe that's the answer, but then it's Scotland next. — Punshhh

Everyone's a winner then.

So, as I see things, it's a matter now of Boris splitting off as many of the hard Brexiteers from the DUP as possible and a hail Mary for Labour support. All this will involve lightspeed levels of spin, but it might just work. — Baden

Here we go...

almost no voters on the UK mainland care much about the Northern Irish problem anyway. — Tim3003

Nail hit on head.

That's a huge concession from the EU and Ireland. There is no way the DUP will get more than that. But these are the people who opposed the Good Friday Agreement, so yes, we shouldn't expect them to move even if the whole thing falls down in pieces around everyone.



What would be amusing would be abstentionist Sinn Fein taking their seats in Parliament for the first time just to support the deal and make the DUP irrelevant. That's a fantasy though.

There is no deal I can envisage that Ireland (and for Ireland read the EU) and the UK can agree on that the DUP will also agree to. Because there is no deal that can remove a customs border between ROI and NI without instituting one either between the UK and NI (unacceptable to the DUP) or over the whole of the UK (unacceptable to the Tories). No amount of creative accounting changes that fundamental reality. And out of Ireland/the EU, the UK, and the DUP, there is only one potentially expendable party to the agreement, i.e. the DUP. Everyone knows that. So, as I see things, it's a matter now of Boris splitting off as many of the hard Brexiteers from the DUP as possible and a hail Mary for Labour support. All this will involve lightspeed levels of spin, but it might just work.

:100:

Of course, everything he does is a trick and a trap. Doesn't change the dynamics. The opposition currently have Boris by the proverbials. He gets a last-minute deal and he has them by same. They can wreck it and absolve him of the responsibility for no-deal / more endless stalemate. Or they can pass it and make him a hero. Either way he wins. Ergo, I predict he now dumps the DUP, swallows the NI only backstop, and goes for Brexity Labour MPs to replace that lost support (and they will come under enormous pressure from their constituents to vote yea).

Bye-bye, DUP. Hello, Labour rebels.

Anyhow, don't want to discuss me here. Carry on. :point:

Yep.

• Lobe, Paul Baden — 180 Proof

Oh, that's mah book. Cheers again for reading :up: . Hope there's something in there for you. @csalisbury said he liked some of it. But he was drunk at the time, so...

None of this is about the substance for Boris. He always knew if it was anything, it was either May's deal or a custom's border between NI and the UK, but also that he had to act like a complete asshole before the ERG would support him. Which he has done and which they are doing while essentially getting fuck all in return. Anyhow, I think he's ready to wilt like a pissed-on peony while beating his chest through it all. Politricks. Bleugh.

No such option. But I can say I've probably received as many PMs as anyone and been the subject of as much ill-feeling by the type of person who would do something like that as anyone and no-one ever bothered. Don't worry about it.

I think Boris is ready for his Syriza moment. Took much theatre but it's coming.

Please use the quote function. Just highlight text and press the quote button.

Trade him in?

He's just had a heart attack, he's 77 and looks every day of it. — Wayfarer

Add some bad grammar and profanity and you've got a Trump tweet in the making there.

Thoughts? — NOS4A2

Unless you can demonstrate that in welfare states people are less helpful etc towards each other than under other forms of governance, you have no basis for your assumptions / presumptions. You'd also have to find a way to show that people would spontaneously do the work of government welfare when it's not available. Without data, stats etc., you have precisely nothing but implausible (and ideologically loaded) speculation.

Pantomime for Brexiteers. There'll be an extension because it's the law.

I don't see any reason to but if you want to open a feedback discussion suggesting that, go ahead and make your case. The debate is off-topic here.

I'm not sure why you need extremely simple things explained to you in detail. But you're not going to be indulged any more.

Now, anyone else got two cents or are we done here?

Surprised to hear calls for giving friends special treatment. As it happens though, because @S was a long-standing member, @Hanover and I both PMed him to try to find a way to not have him banned. I suppose that is special treatment. But he ignored both of us. Also, there are no temporary bans. That's written in the rules. Which we stick to. Anyway, it should go without saying that no one is immune to getting banned and there is no closed club of veteran members that protect each other at all costs. Anyone who thinks that is the case should leave, frankly. And I'll bet @S didn't think that. Evidence is the fact that he banned @TGW for refusing to change his writing style. And there was no profane abuse or requests to be banned there just TGW's flat refusal to change and the united mod attitude that you play by the rules or you get out no matter who you are. And by the way, I took the public flak for that, not @S. So don't talk to me about loyalty or shame. I stuck by the guy for years, but the principles of this community and how it functions come first. If that doesn't suit you, as I said, please do feel free to leave. And good luck.

Thanks for your input. I'll put that one in the suggestion box.

Philosophy is meant to be done with a bit of passion. — Isaac

His passion was not what ultimately got him banned. It was the "fuck you... ban me" bit.

I am maybe one of the few people who likes @S, but it was absolutely the right decision.

Maybe another Daily Telegraph fantasy (the last one was that Ireland was "under pressure" to accept Boris's deal). The fact is that no EU country is going to go out on a limb for the UK. Not on the extension, not on any deal, not on anything. Least of all Poland. Consider that one of the main reasons the UK is leaving is because they want to keep foreigners (particularly Poles and other eastern Europeans) out. Add to that the obvious point that EU countries will always have more to gain from members than non-members and it adds up to the UK continuing to have as little leverage as ever.

Probably 95% of we Irish can't speak Irish (fluently). So, what is it to be Irish? What is it to be a game? It's never one thing and no one thing is ever indispensable.

If you imagine the choices for political debate to be limited to infantile cartoons vs robotic PR rhetoric then... that's what I would expect. But never mind, you're playing your part in the Punch and Judy show impeccably and you're welcome to it.

And compared to what Clinton and Albright did to Iraqi children, trying to get dirt on Biden from wherever seems positively benign.

That stuff isn't going to appeal to anyone with a mental age of more than 12. So, yes, it will be very effective among his fan base.

Sidenote: I think Street has a point. Don't let frustration at Trump do your anger for you. Emotional relief in this context is a distraction. Besides, he'll always win the battle of cartoons.

Yeah, casual homophobia wasn't even questioned in my own social circles growing up. But this was more ideological. The student got very upset with the idea that the university was allowing a gay parade and with horror he produced a snap he'd taken of the rainbow flag flying over university buildings. The gays are spreading their gayness! The air is turning gay! And he had the weird idea that complaining to the student office might be effective in anything other than making him look like a dick. When I put to him the old chestnut "What if your son was gay? What would you do?", he got really angry and said he'd "kill him", which was so ultra-dramatic I almost laughed. And all the time, yes, I'm aware that I like the guy and he's in most respects a good guy, so I was way more patient and helpful than I would have been with almost anyone else who'd say that stuff. Re your uncle, that type of thing is happening to me more and more. I find myself unable often to coherently put people together (e.g. my closest real-life friend at the mo' is a social conservative nationalist Trump sympathizer; though also economically left and very empathetic). But then why shouldn't it be like that?

Anyhow, I've just about spent my knowledge of Russians. Looking forward to hearing more from jrob.

It's all lighthearted fun. Smile.

Is that an illustration of your thought processes?

So, that's one happy customer. :up: :fire:

Sorry, I couldn't stand looking at the cancer poop theme, so rebellion in progress until jrob gets back and rumbles it.

Closing the thread without letting people reflect on it, is a problem. — Swan

Good point. I've deleted it instead.

Got a mobile version?

First, @Bartricks, shut up. Second, everyone else please stay on topic. A good lot of this will soon be deleted.

Edit: Apologies to those who had interesting posts deleted because they were caught up in a chain of crap mostly initiated by a single poster here.