He wandered home wondering if he had any frozen peas in the freezer to nurse his black eye, and since he'd crapped his pants, should he wash them? Or just throw them away?

“Damn NATO", he mumbled.

Satan himself is in charge of Russia — Isaac

Republicans love him. You're the only one thinking in supernatural terms. Weird.

Zelensky is amazing. Holy shit.

That was back in the good old days when I didn’t think Russia would invade, — jamalrob

Ah. So you actually thought Joe Biden was lying about that. That kind of blows my mind. Why on earth would you think that?

But if the West doesn't oppose military annexations (which neither should the UN accept), then naturally there's an opening for anybody to be retro-imperialist. — ssu

The conventional wisdom is that China is supposed to start playing the role of global peace keeper. They want to be a super power, so that goes with the job.

Not me, as far as I recall. — jamalrob

The dangers of appeasement? You were offended, weren't you?

At least the sliding has been noticed. — ssu

People like jamalrob became offended when we brought this up earlier in the thread. What were they thinking?

"This would take us a hundred years back, to the year 1917, and the consequences of such a step would be the global distrust of Russia from investors, it would be felt for many decades," Russian billionaire Vladimir Potanin said in a statement Friday on the Telegram messaging app."

from The Hill about sanctions on Russia

Nuclear war, at some point, is actually preferable to continued environmental destruction. — boethius

As long as it kills all the humans, that's correct.

It's the people that buy it that burn it, — boethius

Well they could hardly do that if Russia wasn't making it available. They're definitely a significant contributer to climate change, so per Isaac's theory, we'll have to sacrifice them for the greater good.

The reality is that the Ukraine you're talking about fighting for is more corrupt by independent indices of corruption than Russia. — Isaac

Russia is worse for the climate, tho: all those hydrocarbons they export for burning. Russia is destroying the environment, so the should be nuked immediately.

You just keep going, long after you stopped making sense. That's interesting.

All of which is, of course, irrelevant to the point, which was about the gross display moral pearl-cluthing over the exact indiscriminate disregard for humanity that's gone on virtually uncommented on for decades. — Isaac

That’s wrong, but if it was right, it would be irrelevant.

Seriously? You want to put some figures to that? — Isaac

Sure. Median wealth:

USA: $121,700
Russia : $871

This is kleptocracy at work: no investment in future production, just raping resources til there's nothing left.

It was a piece of social commentary — Isaac

It was just your failure to understand that Putin has outdone his western counterparts in fucking over his countrymen financially.

motion requires a cause. — Metaphysician Undercover

I don't think so. Aristotle didn't know about inertia.

Only Trump? I can point out truths and lies that all Presidents have told. If you can't tell the truth from the lies it is a problem, Trumps or Obama's lies are their problem not for people who can tell the difference or will not. — FreeEmotion

What's an example of an Obama lie? I really wasn't paying attention at the time.

No one knows where he picked up this nonsense — SophistiCat

Does he know it's nonsense? I would think the average educated Russian knows it's retarded. Right?

Will Putin escalate to de-escalate? — ssu

I think he's in it for several reasons: one of the main ones being his standing within Russia. If Russia is threatened, that cements his hold on the presidency. So he can accept a slow simmer of insurgence.

On the way to that state, he'll want to take out Zelensky and he'll escalate if required to accomplish that.

Im afraid I have no idea what any of that was supposed to mean but... — Isaac

That's it! I'm laying seige!

Does anyone here trust the US Governments official pronouncements or are these to be met with skepticism? — FreeEmotion

Depends. If it's Trump, it's probably a lie.

I put my nukes on high alert so I can bomb you a little faster than I ordinarily would.

Just so you know. You're on notice. I might also take your weapons grade anthrax and blow it on you.

This shows the utter lack of understanding how a country governed by laws operates and that it is usually the dictatorships that are the most corrupt. — ssu

Doesn't it depend on the dictator? Putin was chosen because he was corrupt and so would protect Yeltsin. If he dies in office, couldn't there be a reset where Russia becomes less corrupt?

There are no unbiased news sources, as a general rule. So, be aware of the bias and then calculate how much to discount. — Bitter Crank

I'm going to take that as a biased statement, and add a grain of salt to it.

I wish I could access different channels, my country offers CNN, FOX and BBC. — Manuel

All three of those are known for bias (Fox is worthless).

Maybe Putin wants to use this war to cement his dictatorship, so it doesn't necessarily need to be a quick war.

As the Frontline documentary said, Putin has the same succession problem Yeltsin had. He can't step down without fear of prosecution. So he'll just stay there for life?

The average Russian is poorer than the average Indian. Wow.

America claims they are bio-defence labs. — NOS4A2

That’s not how Americans spell defense.

This is not a combat effective unit. — Count Timothy von Icarus

But they're still able to bomb a children's hospital. I don't think Ukrainians want to hold out for a better deal. There just isn't any deal on the table now because they're locked in. A cease fire would give Ukraine time to get civilians out and regroup. Putin doesn't want that. He's just lying about the deal. He wants the Ukrainians to stop fighting so he can get his shit together and crush Kiev.

There isn't enough trust to do a cease fire, much less a deal about Ukraine's future.

Who said anything about truth? It's just a shit argument — Isaac

Huh?

Has the quote function broken? There seems to have been a flurry recently of posts referring to what I'm apparently saying without making use of it. — Isaac

You straight admitted that you don't care about the truth. Do you need that quoted back to you?

We should probably ban oil and gas from everyone. Go green.

his double-double-secret operative could secretly supply al-Qaeda suicide-bombers with a tactical nuke and have it detonate strategically, with plausible deniability of course — jorndoe

Exactly what location for this detonation did you have in mind, jorndoe?

Well, it's a moot point anyway. After failing to hold Ukraine, he probably won't try to take anything else.

I don't think the NATO response to a second invasion would be because of some treaty. It would be because Putin would start to look like Hitler, not that he's in that category at all at the moment.

Looks like a balanced and lucid analysis to me, coached in careful language. — Olivier5

I think that for all practical purposes, Finland is in NATO because the US and the EU will engage militarily with another invasion. That would be my guess, anyway.

The USSR got out of Afghanistan humbled and crippled, and the same will most probably happen here. — Olivier5

In both cases their defeat will be because of American support.

Hmm.

The other trucks got shelled right after this. — Count Timothy von Icarus

Are you there?

All the combat experience gained by his military dies inside of the body, so it seems a little short sighted, no? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

True

How will such a situation harm his grip on power, rather than simply cement the 'bulwark against the west' narrative which keeps him there? — Isaac

That's not the basis of his power. Russians aren't afraid of NATO.