• Please help me here....
    This is why I think that solipsism and external world scepticism should be seen as important ideas in intellectual history rather than challenges to face on their own terms.Jamal
    :up:
  • What do normative/moral terms mean on a realist construal?

    Moral realism (also ethical realism) is the position that ethical sentences express propositions that refer to objective features of the world (that is, features independent of subjective opinion), some of which may be true to the extent that they report those features accurately.

    If this is what you mean, then I'm a moral realist. If someone says 'murder is wrong,' they don't just mean that they don't like it. In fact, they might like it very much, knowing that it's wrong, perhaps because it's wrong.

    To me this is a point about language, how the concept 'wrong' (typically) functions.
  • What do normative/moral terms mean on a realist construal?
    Are you saying that my original question (what does it mean when realists use normative/moral terms?) is loaded?Cartesian trigger-puppets

    Well, probably every question is. But what is implicitly assumed (and what commitments are made ) as the philosopher puts his philosophy hat on ? Perhaps we are both interested in wtf certain philosophers even mean by their keywords in the first place.

    'Real' is as slippery as they come perhaps.
  • Please help me here....
    but the better to evaluate, test, and improve the theories.

    Hence Pie's interest in "fixing the cogito", probably.
    bongo fury

    :up:

    If we can't have final truth or referee the other disciplines, we can rule out nonsense, clarifying what it is to be a rational agent in the first place along the way.
  • Negative numbers are more elusive than we think
    For me, these kind of constructions raise a lot of questions about the sort of ontology of mathematical objectsJerry

    "God made the (positive) integers." That feels right to me, but in the end we have to settle on formal systems...or sacrifice the norms that make mathematical conjectures relatively unambiguous in the first place.
  • Negative numbers are more elusive than we think
    Had Euler really never heard of debt before? And would our examples of holes and sea level and temperature convince him otherwise?Jerry

    I venture that he'd have had no problems understanding that intuition. The issue was probably multiplication and the shape of the number line ?
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    Philosophers seem to find freedom in the right kind of bondage, the perverts.

    Autonomy is self-government, self-determination. I think the Kantian conception of
    autonomy can be summarized like this: one is self-determining when one’s thinking and
    acting are determined by reasons that one recognizes as such. We can think of
    “autonomy” as labelling a capacity, the capacity to appreciate the force of reasons and
    respond to it. But determining oneself is actually exercising that capacity. That is what it
    is to be in control of one’s own life.
    https://cpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/voices.uchicago.edu/dist/f/106/files/2011/04/Autonomy-and-Community.pdf

    Kant made the autonomy of reason — its non-subordination to anything else — an explicit theme. Rhetorically, of course, he also famously talks about limits on reason, but really what he wants to limit are extra-rational accretions woven into Cartesian and Wolffian rationalisms — various received truths, and so on. Descartes had quickly moved from hyperbolic doubt to question-begging acceptance of many received truths as intuitively reasonable. Wolff and his followers, to whom Kant was primarily reacting, did not even pretend to doubt.

    If reason is to be truly autonomous, it cannot start from received truths. Kant himself was sympathetic to some of these received truths, but too honest to pretend they were self-evident or derivable from reason alone. Kant is often misunderstood as mainly a critic of reason, and certainly not its unconditional defender, but he is actually clear that the autonomy of reason is unconditional. Too often, readers of Kant focus too much on autonomy of a subject rather than autonomy of reason, but the practical autonomy attributable to a so-called subject in Kant is actually derivative, based on the putative subject’s participation in the autonomy of reason. In Making It Explicit, Brandom says where Descartes had focused on our grip on concepts, Kant focused instead on their grip on us (p. 9). (See also Kant’s Groundwork.)

    Hegel has been widely misunderstood as an example of the autonomy of reason gone mad. Brandom, Pippin, and Pinkard have performed an invaluable service in clarifying what Hegel was really trying to do, which was in part to sincerely take up Kant’s honesty about received truths and to push it even further.

    Aristotle said that of all things, reason most deserves to be called divine. He does not use a word like autonomy, but the effect is the same. Nothing is higher. (See also Interpretation; Brandom on Truth.)

    I think of the Kantian autonomy of reason as necessarily involving something like the free play of the Critique of Judgment. The Reason that is truly autonomous in the Kantian sense will be a hermeneutical Reason (see Brandom and Hermeneutics).

    https://brinkley.blog/2019/05/15/the-autonomy-of-reason/
  • What do normative/moral terms mean on a realist construal?


    That understanding of language is far from being the only one, so such presumption, in my view anyway, might be unwarranted.

    An alternative is inferentialism.

    http://jarda.peregrin.cz/mybibl/PDFTxt/580.pdf
    Inferentialism is the conviction that to be meaningful in the distinctively human way, or to have a 'conceptual content', is to be governed by a certain kind of inferential rules. The term was coined by Robert Brandom as a label for his theory of language; however, it is also naturally applicable (and is growing increasingly common) within the philosophy of logic.

    The rationale for articulating inferentialism as a fully-fledged standpoint is to emphasize its distinctness from the more traditional representationalism.
  • What do normative/moral terms mean on a realist construal?

    Why would you want to disqualify or ignore or circumvent established standards ? It's as if you want an example of a norm that's not a norm.

    If it helps, I'm coming from the position that the role of philosopher is implicitly normative. "We rational ones..."
  • The unexplainable
    Do you have a point of view? Or is it just the bewitchment of language that makes it seem so?Tate

    I have a point of view in the way that a bachelor is unmarried. This is how our ( public ) concepts work. I do not expect the arrival of a final word on this issue, but I'm currently unaware of a better approach than something like the following.

    Hegel fully appreciated, as many of Kant’s readers have not, that one of the axial innovations orienting Kant’s thought is his reconceptualization of selves, consciousness, and self consciousness in normative terms. Selves are in the first instance normative subjects: subjects of normative statuses and attitudes. They are what can undertake responsibilities, in the form of duties and obligations, and exercise authority in committing themselves by endorsing epistemic claims and practical maxims. Being conscious in the sense of apperceiving—being sapient, a condition of our kind of sentience—is exercising those normative capacities. It is committing oneself, exercising one’s authority to make oneself responsible by judging. Judgment is the minimal form of apperceptive awareness because judgments are the smallest units one can commit oneself to, make oneself responsible for. What Kant calls the “objective form of judgment”, the “object=X” is the formal mark of what is represented in a judgment: what one makes oneself responsible to for the correctness of one’s judgmental act.1 What he calls the “subjective form of judgment”, the “‘I think’ that can accompany all judgments” and hence is “the emptiest of all representations” is the formal mark of the self who is responsible for the judging. What one is responsible for doing in judging is integrating one’s commitment into a whole exhibiting the rational unity distinctive of apperception. Synthesizing such an apperceptively unified constellation of commitments is extracting and endorsing inferential consequences of one’s commitments, offering some of them as justifications of others, and extruding incompatible commitments. Those unities are conscious selves as normative subjects, and the rational process of producing and maintaining them subject to the rules governing the rational relations articulating the conceptual contents of the various commitments is for Kant the the process of self-consciousness.
    https://sites.pitt.edu/~rbrandom/Texts/PreHegelian_Stages_in_the_History_of_the.pdf
    Bodies are trained into such norms, into regarding the body as (belonging to, manifesting a ) self.

    A self is the type of thing that can be held responsible.


    Hegel takes over and transforms this normative understanding of self-conscious selves by offering a novel social metaphysics of normativity. The process of synthesizing self-conscious normative subjects, which Kant had understood as an individual affair, Hegel reconstrues as a social practice of mutual recognition that essentially requires the participation of different interacting individuals. Normative statuses are understood as essentially social statuses, instituted by social recognitive practices and practical recognitive attitudes. Individual self-conscious selves and recognitive communities are jointly synthesized by practices of recognizing each other as normative subjects in the sense of having the authority to make themselves and hold others responsible, to acknowledge and attribute commitments and obligations.

    Whether I claim to be a shit philosopher or not is up to me (I am held responsible for it), but what it means to be a shit philosopher is not up to me, because I don't govern the tribe's concepts. But we don't need to project them into eternity. Concepts are co-instituted and co-maintained, just as they are coperformed in the inferences we allow and disallow. That's what seems most reasonable to me currently.
  • Negative numbers are more elusive than we think

    I've read that about Euler in more than one source myself, so it's out there if you decide to hunt it down. It's not that Euler was stupid, but maybe the reverse. Things were that unsettled then. Functions, continuity,...not strictly defined yet...
  • Please help me here....
    I imagine another game...one person is 'it' and everyone else tries to convince him that they are mere figments of his imagination.
  • Please help me here....
    Another performative paradox - you request, even demand, answers from folk whose existence you claim to need proof of.Banno

    I granted him that a character in a dream could tell him he was awake.

    Is it logically impossible that I am dreaming right now ? I'd say no, but I'd say that 'dreaming' only makes sense if waking is possible (my 'real' body is bed.) But granting this logical possibility is not unlike granting the mere logical possibility that my skull is hollow ( a thesis, I must admit, that some here might find plausible after all.)
  • Phenomenalism

    Jesus! It's awesome but a little terrifying.

    I don't know much about biology. But I did spend a few weeks reading about evolution (Dawkins, Dennett, and Darwin), and that was mind-stretching...and also a little terrifying.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    Psychologists always know what they're talking about!Isaac

    :up:
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    I claim that the minimum rational intelligible epistemic situation is a plurality of persons subject to the same logic and together in a world that they can be right or wrong about.Pie

    Note that rational is important here. We rational ones need not assume (cannot assume?) that insanity or irrationality it impossible. For me the issue is what a philosopher can afford to doubt coherently, which is to say without lapsing into irrationalism and dropping the ideal or possibility of rationality itself.

    The philosopher is an individual among others, offering and justifying claims presumably because others are possibly unaware of either those claims as possible truths or of their justifications as possibly warranting their adoption as beliefs. The philosopher as such (and this is especially manifest on a text-only site) exists largely 'as' this set of beliefs and justifications. Such online philosophers are, to some degree, whatever they take themselves to be. Their self-presentation...their public claims...are not secondary or superfluous in our making sense of them...but rather what we have to go on. Just as important, however, is how and whether that philosopher assimilates criticism, whether they abandon refuted beliefs or loosen their grip on beliefs with absurd implications.

    Crucially, I can be incoherent when asserting P without you having to be incoherent in asserting P, because I may have a personal commitment/belief Q such P & Q => Z, where Z is something I cannot believe (something absurd, for instance, or something contrary another of my commitments.) You, however, having not adopted Q, do not obviously implicitly commit yourself to the absurdity or outrage Z. Or perhaps you have adopted Q, but Z does not contradict any of your beliefs.

    The big point here is that we have to track the rationality of the players individually. Nothing forbids our individually constructing extravagant, differing systems of conjectures --so long as they are cohere.

    Thinking is public. The negation of this statement is unintelligible. But claims that the 'we' has priority over the (linguistic) 'I' are easily misunderstood to deny a central role for (the concept or the performance of) the self.


    One of Hegel’s big ideas is that creatures with a self-conception are the subjects of developmental processes that exhibit a distinctive structure. Call a creature ‘essentially self-conscious’ if what it is for itself, its self-conception, is an essential element of what it is in itself. How something that is essentially self-conscious appears to itself is part of what it really is. This is not to say that it really is just however it appears to itself to be. For all that the definition of an essentially self-conscious being say what such a one is in itself may diverge radically from what it is for itself. It may not in fact be what it takes itself to be. But if it does mistake itself, if its self-conception is in error, that mistake is still an essential feature of what it really is. In this sense, essentially self-conscious creatures are (partially) self-constituting creatures. Their self-regarding attitudes are efficacious in a distinctive way.

    For such a being can change what it is in itself by changing what it is for itself. To say of an essentially self-conscious being that what it is for itself is an essential element of what it is in itself entails that an alteration in self-conception carries with it an alteration in the self of which it is a conception. Essentially self-conscious creatures accordingly enjoy the possibility of a distinctive kind of self-transformation: making themselves be different by taking themselves to be different. Insofar as such a difference in what the essentially self-conscious creature is in itself is then reflected in a further difference in what it is for itself – perhaps just by in some way acknowledging that it has changed – the original change in self-conception can trigger a cascade. That process whereby what the thing is in itself and what it is for itself reciprocally and sequentially influence one another might or might not converge to a stable equilibrium of self and conception of self.

    Because what they are in themselves is at any point the outcome of such a developmental process depending on their attitudes, essentially self-conscious beings do not have natures, they have histories. Or, put differently, it is their nature to have not just a past, but a history: a sequence of partially self-constituting self-transformations, mediated at every stage by their self-conceptions, and culminating in their being what they currently are. The only unchanging essence they exhibit is to have what they are in themselves partly determined at every stage by what they are for themselves. Understanding what they are requires looking retrospectively at the process of sequential reciprocal influences of what they at each stage were for themselves and what they at each stage were in themselves, by which they came to be what they now are.

    Rehearsing such a historical narrative (Hegel’s ‘Wiederholung’) is a distinctive way of understanding oneself as an essentially historical, because essentially self-conscious, sort of being. To be for oneself a historical being is to constitute oneself as in oneself a special kind of being: a self-consciously historical being. Making explicit to oneself this crucial structural aspect of the metaphysical kind of being one always implicitly has been as essentially self-conscious is itself a structural self-transformation: the achievement of a new kind of self-consciousness.
    — Brandom
    https://sites.pitt.edu/~rbrandom/Texts/SDR%2009%20Brandom%20071389.pdf
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    It is an empirical fact that knowledge of other minds is impossible, in the same way that it is an empirical fact that knowledge of events outside our light cone is impossible.Michael

    This seems problematic.

    How does one prove impossibility empirically ?

    Does this mean that our best psychological theories don't currently allow for ESP ? Confirmation of consciousness ?

    Does empirical science work with concepts without an operational definition ? Presumably psychologists like to know what it is they are talking about ? @Isaac

    If there is such a definition, it's bye bye hard problem. If there isn't and can't be, then that's precisely the grammatical impossibility I've been talking about.

    Note that grammatical impossibility is just logical impossibility minus the superstitious sheen that takes Forms or something like them for granted, as if tautologies were deep truths about the universe and not just community speech norms.
  • Please help me here....

    Just to be clear, I didn't say you said anything in particular. I was just making a point that we don't need to prove everything. For you seem to imply that a theist and a believer in an external world were in the same epistemological position (which would seem to be a statement about the external world, but never mind that for now...)

    Instead I'd say that a community takes lots of statements to be facts or facts-until-proven-guilty, which are fair game as premises for arguments toward less obvious conclusions. This is an old issue.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)

    Sorry if I offended you. I did not intend to be rude. I tend to drink too much coffee.

    As Saussure might saw, each individual language user carries around some imperfect copy of the language system with him. I can survive in the woods for months perhaps, because I have a few great survival books with me, which concentrate centuries of human trial and error.

    This individual body is trained into the language system, which includes developing the skill of making a slew of reliable noninferential reports such as "this banana is brown" or "that coffee is hot." This body is also taught to use the public, norm-governed token 'I' and to be 'responsible' for itself. "One is one around here." "Your hand smacked your sister, so your body stands in the corner." From this POV, it's a mistake to think the self or ego is just given, and this mistake is part of the general approach of building the world from the first-person POV, forgetting its reliance on the third-person POV. We would never dream up a veil-of-ideas if we didn't see sense-organs and medium-sized-dry-goods causally connected in a social world first.
  • Phenomenalism
    Only certain types of life forms have ideas, I think... So the answer may lie in the study of biology and in a philosophy of biological life, its origin and evolution.Olivier5

    :up:

    Biosemiotics is fascinating, though I haven't got around to studying it seriously.
  • Phenomenalism

    Great post. Genealogy of concepts. Make folks aware that these weird entities were invented to play a role in arguments and explanations.
  • Please help me here....
    If you ask me "what does the space above Glen's head contain?" Am I equally likely to say "Nothing", "A hat", or "a carnivorous butterfly called Ned"?Isaac

    :up:
  • Please help me here....

    --- All beliefs should be proved before being accepted.
    --- Really ? Then prove that all beliefs should be proved before being accepted.
  • Is there an external material world ?
    This topic always gives me a headache.Darkneos

    :up:
  • Is there an external material world ?
    If a language less creature is capable of forming meaningful true belief, then meaning and truth are prior to language, and not all belief is equivalent to a propositional attitude.creativesoul

    Another implicit premise here seems to be that languageless creatures can't have propositional attitudes. To me the question arises...how could we tell ? Can we, locked in language, help but attributing such 'attitudes' in trying to understand such creatures ?
  • Is there an external material world ?
    Again, this leads to saying that there is no meaning prior to language, that meaning is a language construct, that language is necessary for meaning, and/or that meaning is existentially dependent upon language.

    Some language less creatures are capable of forming, having, and/or holding belief that is meaningful as well as true or false.
    creativesoul

    Your view seems reasonable to me, but I prefer to use/understand some of your keywords differently. The philosophers who want to find truth and meaning in full-fledged language are reacting to problems in their context, naturally trying to make sense of claims that a play a role in inferences --- of what they themselves, already at a high level of development, are doing.

    I don't think philosophers must or even do insist that other understandings/uses of 'meaning' are invalid.
  • Is there an external material world ?
    Been enjoying it, but... why cling to the mentalist talk in a "manner of speaking"? Why not be literal? And eliminativist?bongo fury
    :up:

    Good questions, and I'm glad you're following. I'm not sure what words I'd reach for in a context where I could assume folks had read and assimilated some of the criticisms of the grand old ghost story.

    There is an ordinary, 'innocent' version of 'private mind' (journal entries) that gets confused with its evil twin, which is itself a confusion, a mystified Nothing. Show them a problem with the Nothing Ghost...and they fall back on the journal entries and wicked thoughts about wives' sisters, which was never challenged in the first place.
  • Negative numbers are more elusive than we think
    That is to say -1 isn't 1 with - sign, -1 is a completely distinct entity from +1.Jerry

    As someone mentioned elsewhere, negative numbers are typically built within set theory as equivalence classes of pairs of natural numbers, so they are very much one level up.

    So -2 := { (2,4), (3,5), (4,6),...}.

    It's also possible to declare that every number in a given system has an additive inverse. Then the negative sign is like a function f that transforms a number into its additive inverse, so that, for instance, -x = f(x) and x + f(x) = 0 for all x. Note that -x also has an additive inverse, which is f(f(x)) = x.
  • Negative numbers are more elusive than we think
    My claim is that when we do ordinary math like counting, we aren't actually operating on "positive" numbers per se, but rather unsigned numbersJerry

    :up:
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    It's impossible in principle to discover what it happening beyond our light cone, but (at least according to the realist) stuff is happening beyond our light cone.Michael

    It's impossible according to one of our best empirical theories. That's not the kind of 'absolute' (grammatical, metaphysical ) 'in principle' I'm talking about.

    The X that, when sprinkled on a P-Zombie, produces a real boy....has no definition at all. It's an empty concept, basically mystical. Or am I wrong ?

    "You know it directly. It's unmediated. It's just there. Pure presence. "

    "But how do I know if my 'pure presence' is your 'pure presence' ? Don't signs get their meaning from their positions relative to other signs and what people do ?"

    "No. Meaning is present. It is given directly. You know it better than anything else. Words are just conventional tags on the Eternal Forms and Sensations which shine in the darkness...except not for P-Zombies."
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    this doesn't refute the claim that you, right now, cannot know what number I am thinking of, or that I am thinking of a number at all.Michael

    Who would bother to refute it ? Who doubts it ? The issue is whether you take the essence of mind to be so radically immaterial and apart from the causal nexus that it's impossible, even in principle, to discover that number.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    This really is a self-evident fact. If your understanding of language denies this very fact then your understanding of language is wrong.Michael

    Concepts are public ? I can use them incorrectly ? But what I mean, behind my rashly chosen words, is correct. You can't see into my box, but I give you my word. I do mean the right thing.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    I can think of a number and not tell you or anyone about it. It is impossible for you to know what number I am thinking of.Michael

    But is it possible, in principle, for timetravelling scientists from Neptune to figure it out with scanners ? With 99.875% accuracy over 100000 trials ?

    In other words, that's a time-bound empirical claim. At the moment, it's implausible. We aren't aware of the technology for that. But I don't believe in some radical separation of mystical mind stuff and equally mystical (complementary) pure matter.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    .....would seem to follow from your individual intelligence. Conditioned by others, maybe, but the thinking, as such, must be your own else in saying “my thinking”, you contradict yourself.Mww

    That's a silly objection...as if anyone disputes that individuals make claims, as if I didn't share a Brandom quote about the self as something like a set of claims that ought to cohere. You pretend that I contradict myself, supporting my point, hoping to discredit me in the light of this coherence norm.
    The 'scorekeeping' notion of rationality features us as all keeping one another relatively honest.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    I don't know, hence the hard problem of consciousness.Michael

    I claim that the hard problem of consciousness is a language trap. What's a operational definition of consciousness ? What's a criterion for its presence in the first place ? If 'mysterions' want to hide it 'behind' every typical reason we have for ascribing it, they dig the very hole they complain about. "Well, a P-Zombie could do that too." The unjustified and absurd assumption is that there is the 'same' thing we all know 'directly.' If it's private, we can never know if we all mean the same thing by "conscious."
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    Such is your prerogative. So what are they a product of, or, from where do they originate?Mww

    I can speculate, but why go down this road ? It's like a theist asking how the world got here if God didn't create it. I don't need to have a settled theory to find 'they got here as if by magic' unsatisfying.

    "Well if they didn't magically appear, then how did they get here, smarty pants ?"
    "I'm not sure. What are the prominent theories among those who specialize on this issue?"

    Is the writer using an intelligence that does not belong to him alone?Mww

    In 2020, the analogy is simple; bodies are hardware and 'minds' are software. Humans are animals with exquisitely developed 'second natures.' We 'grow' cultures in our doings together. Part of our culture is the partial autonomy of the individual. This makes great sense. We need pioneers, specialists. If I can't take the software away from the tribe for a little while, the 'tentacles' or 'antennae' of the tribe aren't as long. It's 'fingers' aren't as specialized.

    Relatively exact. Can’t be both simultaneously. Up is relative to down, but up and down are each exactly representative of their part in a logical relation.Mww

    To be sure, you can't get much more exact than a single bit of information, but mathematics is a bit more than that. The completeness axiom is disturbing. It says that every nonempty subset of real numbers with an upper bound has a least upper bound. So it 'creates' or guarantees the existence of a
    number in terms of a set of such numbers. Or, starting from below if you prefer :

    In mathematics, logic and philosophy of mathematics, something that is impredicative is a self-referencing definition. Roughly speaking, a definition is impredicative if it invokes (mentions or quantifies over) the set being defined, or (more commonly) another set that contains the thing being defined. There is no generally accepted precise definition of what it means to be predicative or impredicative. ...
    ...
    The greatest lower bound of a set X, glb(X), also has an impredicative definition: y = glb(X) if and only if for all elements x of X, y is less than or equal to x, and any z less than or equal to all elements of X is less than or equal to y. This definition quantifies over the set (potentially infinite, depending on the order in question) whose members are the lower bounds of X, one of which being the glb itself. Hence predicativism would reject this definition.[1]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impredicativity

    Metaphysics carries a less pejorative implication, but, suit yourself.Mww

    That's just it. It's not about suiting myself, because I'm not writing poetry in the woods. I'm trying to do philosophy, settle beliefs rationally. I'm arguing against certain traditional theories of basic situation. There's more to life than philosophy, but that's the game we're here for, no?
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    The difference is that the p-zombie doesn't have the private thoughts. You keep switching between accepting that there are such things to then not? I don't understand it.Michael

    What would you count as evidence for a private thought ?

    Is a private thought just something we might quietly 'say' to ourselves ? Is it something that, in principle, could be detected and translated by a sufficiently advanced neuroscientist from Venus ?

    Or is it on another 'plane' entirely, untouched and untouchable by the 'non-mental'?
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    The phrases "the future" and "your private thoughts" each refer to something that is necessarily inaccessible to me. What's the problem?Michael

    "I'd call it a diary, bro, because it's just your private thoughts."

    "I'm putting this money away for a rainy day, because you never know (the future)."
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    So, again, what's the problem?Michael

    If you leap from the boring, typical talk of private thoughts to the 'official theory' of the ghost, then the only difference between a P-Zombie and a real boy is ... nothing at all.

    We must pretend to admit that possibility that Hitler actually loved the Jews. Or that the guy who beats and rapes his wife 'actually' loves her, because the truth is behind or other than any evidence we can summon for this or that judgment. Along these lines, concepts 'really' mean ...whatever I in my secret heart think they mean. So all the Cantor cranks are right, because they can't grok lamestream infinity or rather 'their' infinity is a round square.

    "He ate children for breakfast, but let's not rule out that he was a kind man in the privacy of his soul. " Or "he spent his life trying to square the circle, but it may be he was a mathematical genius." And so on. Our actual criteria, the ones we live by, depend upon public performance. It seems better to understand the self as constituted by its doings and not hidden behind the mostly public self as a ghost with spectral and secret feelings and thoughts which are detached from our actual, practical explanatory nexus.

    "Kind" and "smart" and "loving" are either in or out of the causal nexus. I think you are trying to have it both ways.
  • Our Minimal Epistemic Commitment (Fixing Descartes' Cogito)
    The phrases "the future" and "your private thoughts" each refer to something that is necessarily inaccessible to me.Michael

    Both play a role in inferences. Both have meaning. I don't have to know your private thoughts to reason about private thoughts in general. The norms for their application are not hidden.

    It's as if you are amazed that humans can speak of ignorance, of the unknown as such, yet your solipsist makes claims about ignorance.