From my perspective, you did the right thing. The man clearly has problems, and if he might have benefited from therapy, he most likely wouldn't have gotten it in jail--are you all still spelling it 'gaol'? — BC

Yes, he is an alcoholic and does things like this when he is drunk. We asked the police to help him to get on a program to treat his alcoholism and the police did that. I think the man is much better off getting treatment than being imprisoned in a jail for years. Gaol is an old-fashioned word for jail and is not commonly used here any more.

I've been robbed at knife point a couple of times. it was a bad experience, and there was no arrest in either case — BC

I am so sorry. I am glad you were not killed by the robbers.

We arrest and imprison a lot of people in the United States. — BC

I don't think imprisoning people is a good solution. People need help to change their values and behaviours instead of just being locked up.

Jailing prostitutes, for instance, doesn't make sense. — BC

I don't think there is anything wrong with sex work. It should be legalised and treated like any other career. It should not be criminalised.

I'm going to be honest, beyond some abstract comparisons, this seems to me an unachievable goal. — boethius

I know that.

There is no way to really prove anything. — boethius

This is false. When I slap myself, I feel pain. That proves to me that pain is real.

However, I do believe there are good reasons to believe there is an afterlife. I elaborate the argument in this essay: https://open.substack.com/pub/eerik/p/the-cromulomicon-the-book-of-croms?r=33um1b&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false — boethius

Not convinced. All the gods are evil and imaginary.

I foolishly believed that people I thought were genuinely concerned for alleviating poverty in Africa and empowering people with a source of energy they could build and control themselves would not tolerate our work being used to launder hundreds of millions of dollars of African diamond money for Isabel Dos Santos.

That I was alone in my disposition, made me very alone indeed. — boethius

I am so sorry. We live in an evil world where the evil prosper and the innocent perish. European Christians, and Arab Muslims colonised and killed hundreds of millions of humans worldwide for centuries and got away with murder, rape, forced conversions, torture, theft, slavery, etc. This is why Christianity is the number one religion and Islam is the number two religion on Earth. Now they are getting away with neocolonisation and causing the climate crisis through 300 years of burning fossil fuels. If you haven't read the whole Bible and the whole Quran, I highly recommend that you do so: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Thank you very much for answering my questions. You have lived an interesting life and have saved and improved many lives - well done for doing this.

On 24 December 2024, my wife and I got death threats from a Christian man. He smeared our window with blood and tried to knock down our front door. We called the police. He was arrested and was released the next day. We didn't press charges because we thought that was the right thing to do. Did we actually do the right thing?

This is why I am determined to inform others of this very fact - so that my voice might influence others to gather more information before making a decision (especially moral and political decisions), and to demand the media be less biased and simply report the facts, or that we have access to more and more varying sources to triangulate the truth - to spread the idea of freedom of thought and choice and speech. — Harry Hindu

I support your goal.

No manic episodes? Not sure about hypomania? Maybe you are not. Don't know. Mania is unmistakable -- running from abnormally exuberant energy directed at odd projects to auditory hallucinations telling you to jump in front of a car. Hypomania might be fun for a while, but psychotic-level mania is an awful experience. So! Be glad you are not.

I imagine you have talked this over with your psychiatrist? Been rediagnosed? — BC

I was diagnosed with Bipolar Affective Disorder Type 2 on the 5th of March 1998, but my parents said that was a mistake. The diagnosis was changed to Ultra Ultra Rapid Cycling Cyclothymia. Then I had one auditory and one tactile hallucination on 30 January 2011 during a depressive episode. Then they changed the diagnosis to Bipolar Affective Disorder. I have never been manic. Whether I have been hypomanic or not is debatable. I have been depressed most of the time. The depth of the depression varies. Here is a mood scale:

+5: Total loss of judgement, exorbitant spending, religious delusions or hallucinations.
+4: Lost touch with reality, incoherent, no sleep, paranoid and vindictive, reckless behaviour.
+3: Inflated self-esteem, rapid thoughts and speech, counter-productive simultaneous tasks.
+2: Very productive, everything to excess, charming and talkative.
+1: Self-esteem good, optimistic, sociable and articulate, good decisions and get work done.
0: Mood in balance, no symptoms of depression or mania.
-1: Slight withdrawal from social situations, concentration less than usual, slight agitation.
-2: Feeling of panic and anxiety, concentration difficult and memory poor, some comfort in routine.
-3: Slow thinking, no appetite, need to be alone, sleep excessive or difficult, everything a struggle.
-4: Feeling of hopelessness and guilt, thoughts of suicide, little movement, impossible to do anything.
-5: Endless suicidal thoughts, no way out, no movement, everything is bleak and it will always be like this.

I may have gone up to plus two on the mood scale, but it is not clear.

I have been down to minus five on the mood scale. Right now, I am at minus two. What about you?

if you could change your life to whatever you thought would lead to happiness, what would it be? — BC

I would like to prevent all suffering, injustice, and death and make all living things forever happy. That would make me happy. I know it is not possible to do. What about you?

Maybe you saw the comedy bit posted in the Shout Box about "Slightly Less Than Two Drinks"? It's on YouTube. — BC

I didn't know about it. Thank you for telling me. I watched the video - it was funny.

Twice I had a job which was fulfilling and interesting — BC

What jobs were they?

EMDR is Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing. It is used to treat PTSD and CPTSD. I have CPTSD due to many traumatic experiences from age four onwards.

I will presume that your bipolar diagnosis was accurate. — BC

This is debatable. My parents think that I have recurrent depression. I have had many depressive episodes. I have never been manic. I may or may not have experienced hypomania - it is not clear. My parents wanted me to stay with them in Aberdeen and study Computer Science. I wish I had done that. My depression began on 29 September 1997, when I moved from Aberdeen to Dundee to go to medical school. My first symptom was insomnia which began on my first night in Dundee. When I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on 5 March 1998, my parents said to leave medical school and Dundee and return to Aberdeen to live with them and study Computer Science. I wish I had done that.

Excessive perseverating or ruminating on a decision seems to go with the territory of depression. And it's depressing all by itself. Antidepressants help, and cognitive behavioral therapy might help with that. — BC

Antidepressants didn't help me. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, which I got in 2024, helped a little. EMDR, which I got in 2024, helped a lot. I am waiting to get Schema Therapy.

I am so sorry that you suffered, too. Ever tried building a time machine so you can go back in time and change the past? I tried, but it didn't work.

Then you agree that having more information allowed her to make a more informed decision. You agree that more information gave her a choice whereas before there wasn't a choice to either accept that God is benevolent or not, which may lead to other choices like choosing to become an atheist or not. — Harry Hindu

I agree that having different information, i.e. God's commands to commit genocides, rape, slavery, and non-Christians going to spend eternity in hell, etc. caused her to make a different choice, i.e. she left Christianity and became an agnostic.

Ok, then her environment did not change, but the information she had did. — Harry Hindu

Yes. The Children's Bible is sanitised to exclude God's commands to commit genocides, rape, slavery, and non-Christians going to spend eternity in hell, etc. This is why she was shocked and horrified by the adult version of the Bible.

So maybe you should redraw your diagram to show the environment as the foundation that determines everything else — Harry Hindu

Perhaps I should redraw it.

Your friend had a change of environment from one where there was only the children's version to one where there was both the children's and adult versions. Our environment is where we get information from so by changing environments (like changing the channel to a different news source) we get access to new information. — Harry Hindu

No, she didn't have a change of environment. She still lived in the same house in England with her parents. She just chose to read her parents' Bible instead of her own due to curiosity about the adult version of the Bible.

I would have thought that religion falls under environment. What does it mean to be brought up to be Christian if not that they were raised in a Christian environment? Doesn't one's environment dictate one's experiences? What would an experience divorced from the environment one finds themselves in look like if the environment is a determining factor on one's choices? Wouldn't the environment be a determining factor of one's experiences? How does one acquire experiences if not by living in a particular environment? — Harry Hindu

I think I should make some clarifications.

By genes, I mean active genes. Genes can be switched on or off due to epigenetics.

By environment, I mean physical environment, e.g. growing up in the Amazon jungle in the year 1200 versus growing up in the desert in the year 700 versus growing up in London in the year 1900 versus growing up in Mumbai in the year 2025 versus growing up in a colony on Mars in the year 2100, etc.

By nutrients, I mean protein, carbohydrate, fat, vitamins, minerals, etc.

By experiences, I mean all experiences, e.g. the taste of mango, the experience of being told that Jesus is the only way to Heaven when you are four years old, the experience of having your face deformed by acid, the experience of being told that Islam is the only true religion when you are four years old and that only Muslims go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell forever, the experience of being raped when you are fourteen, the experience of winning a Maths competition when you are ten, the experience of watching what happens in slaughterhouses, the experience of inhaling the scent of red roses, the experience of being tortured, the experience of learning English, the experience of having malaria, the experience of coming fourth in the 100 metre sprint in the Olympics, the experience of being told that you have Schizophrenia due to bad karma in your previous life by your Hindu parents, the experience of falling in love when you are fifteen, the experience of being constipated, the experience of having an injection, the experience of being beaten by your parents for years and years, etc.

One's physical environment inevitably affects one's experiences. It also affects what nutrients are available to one. For instance, if you abduct me and jettison me in space without a spacesuit, I won't have any oxygen, water, food or heat. Hence, I will die within minutes. The physical environment also affects which genes are switched on due to epigenetics.

Your friend acquired more information outside of her current experiences. She acquired new experiences, which allowed her to actually make a choice. Before, she had no choice because she didn't have access to new information. — Harry Hindu

No. She made determined and constrained choices since she was in the womb. We all make determined and constrained choices every second from being in the womb until we die. Most of our choices are unconscious. Her choice changed (i.e. she left Christianity and became an agnostic) as a result of a new experience, i.e. reading the whole of the adult version of the Bible, which horrified her.

But you used religion as an example of a determining factor of one's current choices. So how can you say they are not free from determinism if I just showed that one of your own examples did not have a determining factor in their current choices? — Harry Hindu

Religion is not a determining factor on its own. There are four categories of determining factors: genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. Religion comes under experiences. For example, someone I know was brought up to be a Christian, but when she was a teenager, she read the adult version of the Bible instead of the children's version of the Bible. She was horrified by the cruelties, contradictions, and injustices in the Bible and consequently left Christianity and became an agnostic. Many Christians never read the whole Bible. They read only the cherry-picked nice verses selected by priests. If you haven't read the whole Bible, I recommend that you read this: https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

Would you agree that having access to more information equates to having more experiences? — Harry Hindu

I would agree.

Some information is irrelevant to the current goal. I am talking only about relevant information in some specific instance or issue. — Harry Hindu

I agree.

So we can say that the person that was raised in a religious environment acquired more information outside of the environment they were raised in to make a more informed choice. In essence, more information "freed" themselves from their upbringing. Their ideas are no longer constrained by their upbringing. — Harry Hindu

I agree, but they are still not free from determinism. They are only free from the religion they were born into. Most humans remain within the religion they were born into. Only some humans either change religion or become secular.

I have defined defined free choice as having access to information. — Harry Hindu

I disagree with your definition of free choice because having access to information does not make a choice free from the determining and constraining effects of genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences.

do you agree that having access to more information is a good thing for an individual? — Harry Hindu

Yes, as long as the individual can process the amount of information. Let's say, you are driving a car. While you are driving it, the passenger sitting next to you shows you videos on the laws of physics, the manufacturing process of cars, etc. All these information would overwhelm you and make you a worse driver. You don't need all of these information to drive the car well. You need to pay attention to the road to drive the car well and you need to know how to use tools such as the steering wheel, the gear stick, accelerator and clutch and brake pedals and mirrors, etc.

Do you agree that the culture, the religion, and the traditions we are born into is not the only source of information about the world? — Harry Hindu

I agree. Science is a much better source of information than cultures, religions and traditions. Cultures, religions and traditions often perpetuate ignorance, superstition and harmful practices.

If the society is based on laws and an individual breaks those laws then how can you say that the culture, the religion, and the traditions we are born into has a deterministic effect on them? — Harry Hindu

Because it is not a simple situation. Genes, environments, nutrients and experiences interact in complex ways to form neural pathways which lead to choices. Both the law-followers and the law-breakers are making determined and constrained choices. Every human being is unique because every human being has a unique mix of genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. It's a dynamic mix that is changing every millisecond.

Certainly human life as we know it, but in terms of healthy ecosystems generally speaking, predation and a struggle for survival agains the elements is apart of life. — boethius

Not just human life. Other sentient biological organisms suffer and die. I don't want any living thing to suffer and die. I want all living things to be forever happy.

Well maybe there is such a place to aspire to in the afterlife. — boethius

There is no such thing as the afterlife. If you can prove there is an afterlife, please do.

I've been working on this for 20 years, and I've collected some of the old open source material in this folder: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16eIpgNP7vvBcm_P6nfFzywqjcHuTV9qD?usp=share_link

These two videos are also useful:

https://youtu.be/CXJgAmft2jI
https://youtu.be/q3WeRU8geSs

There's also a lot of material on lytefire.com — boethius

This is awesome! Thank you very much for sharing. I look forward to exploring them.

to help launder African diamond money — boethius

That's unfortunate. Did the money laundering stop, or is it still going on?

I just wanted you to know that you're not alone, and that I truly believe that we can make the best of our lives. — 013zen

Thank you for your kindness. BPD is short for Borderline Personality Disorder. Is that what you have, or do you have Bipolar Affective Disorder, which is shortened to BAD? We are all making the best of our lives, but that doesn't mean our lives are perfect. I want lives to be perfect for all living things. I want the absence of all suffering, injustice and death. I want all living things to be forever happy. I know I will never get what I want, but that doesn't mean what I want is not worth wanting.

As I already pointed out, a law-breaker is an example of someone where the society had no determined effect on them. You quarantining them and adjusting their gene profile would be an example of having a determined effect, but only after they have shown that society had no determined effect on them. — Harry Hindu

No. We experience the culture, the religion, and the traditions we are born into. No one is free from the determining and constraining effects of genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences. Some of us follow laws, and some of us don't follow laws due to differences in our genes, environments, nutrients and experiences. We don't deserve blame or credit.

Why do you wish that you had made different choices? — 013zen

Because of all the suffering I have gone through and others have gone through as a result of my choice to trust my psychiatrist instead of my parents. I was a first-year medical student when I was diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder on the 5th of March 1998. In September 2002, my psychiatrist instructed me not to attend clinical sessions during depressive episodes. I did what I was told, but the medical school expelled me on the 13th of February 2003 because I had not attended the clinical sessions. Listening to my psychiatrist didn't just cause 27 years of suffering and side effects, but it ruined my career as a doctor. I could go on and on about everything that has happened during the last 27 years, but I don't have the time to do that. Also, I don't think you have the time to read hundreds of thousands of words.

Imagine the world was such that everyone, always, made the best possible, optimal decision for themselves, leading to no regret, or second-guessing - would our decisions and their outcomes hold the same weight and import to us? — 013zen

Such a thing could only happen if everyone were all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful. How else could everyone make perfect choices? Since all-loving, all-knowing and all-powerful beings don't exist, such a scenario will always be imaginary.

What I mean is this, there are many things that, I think I could have done better, and its through reflecting on these things that I feel I've become stronger, and better equipped to deal with the world, and this makes my experiences unique and valuable to me. — 013zen

That's fine. I am glad your life is not as full of suffering as mine has been and continues to be.

I view life as we know it a good thing, so the diversity and predation and so on goes along with life as we know it. — boethius

Life on Earth, as it has been and currently is, comprises much suffering, injustice, and death. That's why I imagined energy beings who don't need to consume any air, water or food to live. The energy beings would not need to consume any sunlight or heat either. They would be eternally self-sustaining. I imagine them to be all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful. I am all too aware that these beings don't exist outside my imagination.

How can we implement widespread use of solar power for generating electricity and heat?

This is an odd thing to say. Something that does not exist can't make any choices, so you're pulling the rug out from under your own argument. — Harry Hindu

If something doesn't exist, it can't suffer, it can't enjoy, it can't make any determined and constrained choices.

What does that even mean? What would it look like to break the laws of physics if not to say that determinism is not the case and everything is random? — Harry Hindu

Being able to move faster than light would require breaking the laws of physics.

The **laws of physics** are the fundamental principles that govern how matter, energy, space, and time behave in the universe. These laws are not laws in the legal sense — they are descriptions, often expressed in mathematical form, of patterns we observe in nature. They are derived from empirical observations, refined through experimentation, and sometimes revised as new data emerges.

Here’s a breakdown of the **core categories** and **major laws** of physics:

**Classical Mechanics** (Newtonian Physics)

1. **Newton’s Laws of Motion**

* **First Law (Inertia)**: An object remains at rest or moves at constant velocity unless acted upon by a force.
* **Second Law**: Force equals mass times acceleration
* **Third Law**: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

2. **Law of Universal Gravitation**

* Every mass attracts every other mass with a force proportional to their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them:


**Electromagnetism** (Maxwell’s Equations)

3. **Maxwell’s Equations**
A set of four equations that unify electricity and magnetism:

* **Gauss's Law for Electricity**: Electric charges produce electric fields.
* **Gauss's Law for Magnetism**: There are no magnetic monopoles.
* **Faraday’s Law of Induction**: A changing magnetic field induces an electric field.
* **Ampère's Law with Maxwell's Addition**: Electric currents and changing electric fields produce magnetic fields.


**Thermodynamics**

4. **Zeroth Law**: If two systems are each in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are in thermal equilibrium with each other.

5. **First Law**: Energy cannot be created or destroyed — only transformed (conservation of energy).

6. **Second Law**: Entropy (disorder) of an isolated system always increases over time. Heat flows from hot to cold.

7. **Third Law**: As temperature approaches absolute zero, the entropy of a system approaches a constant minimum.


**Relativity** (Einstein)

8. **Special Relativity**

* Laws of physics are the same in all inertial frames.
* The speed of light is constant in all frames.
* Time dilation and length contraction occur at high speeds.
* Famous equation: E = mc^2

9. **General Relativity**

* Gravity is the curvature of spacetime caused by mass and energy.
* Objects follow geodesics (the straightest possible paths) in curved spacetime.


**Quantum Mechanics**

10. **Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle**

* You cannot simultaneously know the exact position and momentum of a particle:

11. **Schrödinger Equation**

* Describes how the quantum state of a system evolves over time.

12. **Pauli Exclusion Principle**

* No two identical fermions (like electrons) can occupy the same quantum state.

13. **Wave-Particle Duality**

* Particles such as electrons and photons exhibit both wave-like and particle-like behaviour.


**Modern Extensions & Theories**

14. **Standard Model of Particle Physics**

* Describes fundamental particles (quarks, leptons, bosons) and their interactions via the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces.

15. **Quantum Field Theory (QFT)**

* Combines quantum mechanics with special relativity; particles are excitations in fields.

16. **Conservation Laws** (Apply across physics):

* **Conservation of Energy**
* **Conservation of Momentum**
* **Conservation of Angular Momentum**
* **Conservation of Charge**
* **Conservation of Baryon and Lepton Numbers** (in particle physics)

Important Notes

* These laws **describe** what we observe but don't necessarily **explain why** the universe is this way.
* Some laws are **approximations** (e.g. Newton’s laws break down at relativistic speeds or quantum scales).
* Scientists are searching for a **Theory of Everything** that unifies general relativity and quantum mechanics — current candidates include **string theory** and **loop quantum gravity**.

If we could do things that go against the above laws of physics, that would count as breaking the laws of physices e.g. knowing both the exact position and the momentum of a subatomic particle such as an electron.

Why would we quarantine an individual if they are not the agent of their actions? Doesn't this not support the idea that an individual is responsible for their actions? — Harry Hindu

The implications of your argument is that it is society that is to blame for an individual's actions, not the individual, yet you are trying to use society to punish the individual for society's own actions in creating an environment that determines the individual's actions. If society is the cause of one's behavior, then are you quarantining the individual from society or the society from the individual? In doing so, are you not setting the individual free of society's influence? Why would you now need to adjust their gene profile?

Why would you even need to adjust the gene profile to match what society wants if society is what determined their behavior in the first place? :roll: It's a total contradiction. — Harry Hindu

We would quarantine law-breakers and potential law-breakers to protect potential victims of crimes. We have a duty to protect potential victims from being murdered, tortured, raped, robbed, conned, etc. Once we have altered the mix of genes, environments, nutrients and experiences that cause crimes, we would let the law-breakers out of quarantine. A similar approach is taken if you catch a deadly communicable disease, e.g. Ebola. We don't blame the patients for being infected. We quarantine the patients to protect potential spread of the germs, then cure the patients and then release them from quarantine. If your car has an accident because the break cable snapped would you call your car evil and imprison it? No, you would call your car broken and you would bring it to a mechanic and when it is fixed you would drive it again. The same applies to people who break laws. They are not evil, they are damaged and need to be repaired.

Society is made of individuals. As I have said before, no one chooses to come into existence and no one chooses their genes, early environments, early nutrients, and early experiences. Therefore, no one deserves any blame or credit for any choices. There is no contradiction in my model and approach to crimes. You simply misunderstood me.

Isn't is the accumulated effect of all four that creates unique individuals? If we make everyone the same that will stifle diversity and competition and by extension - progress. — Harry Hindu

Yes, all four categories of variables i.e. genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences (GENE) are essential to construct every unique sentient biological organisms. I never said we should be making everyone the same. There can be diverse individuals who don't harm themselves and others, e.g. vegan egalitarians such as me and my vegan egalitarian friends. We are not clones of each other. We differ in terms of our genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences considerably. We have different genders, different skin colours, different eye colours, different types of hair, different heights, different weights, different education, different sexualities, and different careers. The only thing we have in common is that we are all vegan and we are all egalitarian.

I think this is a misunderstanding of freedom. Freedom does not mean freedom from the constraints of existence. That is death.

Think of it like a game of chess. You are not free to move pawns backwards. You are not free to move bishops sideways. The only way to do these things is to not play the game. And importantly, you are not free to win every game. But within the constraints of the game, you are afforded the freedom to choose any move you wish, so many choices that even the most powerful computer cannot explore them all.

Sometimes I feel free. Even when I do, I am still profoundly constrained by the environment, and by myself. Nonetheless, life affords a vast scope of choices. This can be agonizing, and wonderful. — hypericin

I agree.

Thank you very much for pointing out how other renewable energy sources compare to solar power. I agree that solar is the best option.

Highly debatable if it were better that there was no life as we currently know it. — boethius

Why wouldn't energy beings who don't need to consume air, water and food to live be better than the autotrophs, herbivores, carnivores, omnivores and parasites we currently have?

trees are really an extraordinary life form and taking care of them is foundational for a sustainable way of life. — boethius

I agree. I love trees, in fact, I love all autotrophs. I wish all organisms were autotrophs. In fact, it would be even better if all organisms were energy beings who could live without consuming any air, water and food.

Thank you very much for sharing your insights about numerical analysis. I am certainly anti-fossil fuel and pro-renewable energy. Solar is not the only option. Wind farms, wave farms, and geothermal power plants are also good options.

Thank you very much for your fascinating post about trees and the problems with human immortality. I learned some new things, which is great.

It's an evolved trait that optimizes over time for the survival of the species. — boethius

I am sorry that I don't understand. How can the ageing of most species and the non-ageing of some species be an optimised evolved trait? They are the opposites of each other.

As we don't yet know how to make humans and other species immortal, let's put that plan aside for now.

How do I get everyone to love everyone? We humans have killed hundreds of millions of other humans across the centuries and throughout the world in the name of colonisation, slavery, ideologies and religions. We have killed countless other organisms, too. If everyone loved everyone, there wouldn't be any wars or crimes or poverty or injustice or exploitation. Why doesn't everyone just love everyone and be vegan egalitarians? We should share resources equitably, and everyone should receive according to need and contribute according to abilities. If everyone loved everyone, there wouldn't be any wars or crimes or poverty or injustice or exploitation. Why doesn't everyone just love everyone and be vegan egalitarians? We should share resources equitably, and everyone should receive according to need and contribute according to abilities. If we can do this, all 14 worldwide objectives would be achieved.

This is really not how it works. — boethius

In that case, why do some organisms age (e.g. humans, cows, dogs, etc.) and some organisms don't age (e.g. planarian flatworms, hydra, Bristlecone pines, etc.)?

The premise that making people live longer achieves your objectives I also think is highly questionable. — boethius

Second, it is completely nonsensical to even consider extending human life without first being assured we are taking care of the environment and our economic activity derived from the environment sustainably. — boethius

On its own, making humans and other species immortal won't be enough to achieve all 14 objectives. In addition to making humans and other species immortal, we would need to build spaceships to transport humans and other organisms to other planets and moons in our solar system and to other planets and moons in other star systems so that we can spread life throughout the universe. If there is more than one universe, we should spread life to all universes. If we have an optimum population at each location, and everyone went vegan, and we stopped fossil fuel usage completely, and we stopped polluting the air, water and land with toxins, the environment would recover.

First, because there is a long list of more pressing matters of war and poverty and illness, that we have the knowhow to address already but it is a matter of political organization. — boethius

If we stopped being selfish and instead shared resources equitably (i.e. everyone receives according to needs and contributes according to ability) there wouldn't be any poverty.

Many illnesses are preventable, and many more are treatable. Again, sharing resources would make healthcare accessible to all. I have been trying for 37 years to get everyone to love everyone, but I have failed so far because people haven't listened to me. If everyone loved everyone, there wouldn't be any wars or crimes or poverty or injustice or exploitation. Why doesn't everyone just love everyone and be vegan egalitarians? We should share resources equitably, and everyone should receive according to need and contribute according to abilities.

Third, natural age is an evolved trait that nature has found to maximize our chance of survival as a species, and the wisdom of trying to reprogram evolution on these fundamental points resulting from hundreds of millions of years of genetic optimization is highly questionable. — boethius

Evolution is a deeply flawed process. Here is a list of biological design flaws in humans and other species that strongly suggest evolution through natural selection, rather than intelligent design. These features reflect evolutionary compromises, historical constraints, and trial-and-error processes typical of evolution:

Design Flaws in Humans
1. The Recurrent Laryngeal Nerve
What it is: A nerve that runs from the brain to the larynx but loops down into the chest first, detouring around the aorta.

Why it's a flaw: In humans and other species, the detour is wasteful. In giraffes, it's over 5 meters longer than necessary.

Evolutionary explanation: Inherited from fish ancestors where this route was more direct. Evolution could not rewire it completely without disrupting function.

2. Human Birth Canal and Bipedalism Conflict
What it is: Narrow pelvis for upright walking makes childbirth difficult and dangerous.

Why it's a flaw: High risk of obstructed labour, especially with large-brained babies.

Evolutionary compromise: Upright walking (bipedalism) came with a cost to birthing ease.

3. Wisdom Teeth
What they are: Extra molars that often don’t fit in the modern human jaw.

Why it's a flaw: Commonly causes crowding, impaction, and infections.

Evolutionary explanation: Our ancestors had larger jaws and more abrasive diets, which wore teeth down and made space for third molars.

4. Blind Spot in the Eye
What it is: A spot on the retina with no photoreceptors where the optic nerve exits the eye.

Why it's a flaw: Vertebrate eyes are "wired backward," so light must pass through nerve layers before reaching receptors.

Contrast: Octopus eyes evolved separately and don’t have this problem — their nerves are behind the retina.

5. Back Pain and Spinal Issues
What it is: Chronic back pain and slipped discs are common.

Why it's a flaw: Our spine evolved from four-legged ancestors and struggles with vertical weight-bearing.

Evolutionary compromise: Bipedalism is recent in evolutionary terms, and our skeletons are imperfectly adapted.

6. Appendix
What it is: A vestigial organ, once useful for digesting cellulose.

Why it's a flaw: Can become inflamed or rupture (appendicitis) without much function today.

Evolutionary holdover: Remnant from herbivorous ancestors.

7. Testicles Outside the Body
What it is: Human testicles descend into a vulnerable scrotum.

Why it's a flaw: Increases risk of injury.

Evolutionary reason: Sperm production needs cooler temperatures than core body heat.

8. Choking Hazard in the Throat
What it is: Humans share a passage for food and air.

Why it's a flaw: It increases the risk of choking to death.

Evolutionary constraint: Arises from the descent of the larynx to allow complex speech.

9. Poorly Designed Knees
What it is: Prone to injury (e.g. torn ACL).

Why it's a flaw: Knees evolved for quadrupedal locomotion and are not well adapted to the torque of upright walking and running.

10. Menstrual Cycle Wastefulness
What it is: Shedding of the uterine lining if fertilisation does not occur.

Why it's a flaw: Energetically costly and causes discomfort or anaemia.

Not all mammals menstruate: Most reabsorb the lining instead.

Design Flaws in Other Species
1. Flatfish Eye Migration
What it is: Both eyes end up on one side of the body.

Why it's a flaw: Awkward and inefficient anatomy reflecting a patchwork adaptation.

Evolutionary explanation: Adapted from symmetrical fish ancestors to lie flat on the ocean floor.

2. Panda's "Thumb"
What it is: A modified wrist bone used to grasp bamboo.

Why it's a flaw: Far less efficient than a true opposable thumb.

Evolutionary compromise: Makeshift adaptation rather than a well-planned structure.

3. Giraffe’s Long Neck with Same Number of Vertebrae
What it is: Despite its neck length, the giraffe has only 7 cervical vertebrae.

Why it's a flaw: Limits flexibility and increases the risk of injury.

Evolutionary constraint: Most mammals have 7 cervical vertebrae, and changes are highly constrained developmentally.

4. Flightless Wings in Birds
Examples: Ostriches, emus, kiwis.

Why it's a flaw: Waste of resources for animals that don’t fly.

Evolutionary vestiges: Wings are leftover structures from flying ancestors.

5. Male Seagull Mating Error
What it is: Male seagulls sometimes try to mate with anything that looks like a female, even dead ones.

Why it's a flaw: Behavioural overgeneralization due to evolutionary pressure to reproduce quickly.

Not intelligent behaviour: Just evolutionary instincts gone awry.

6. Cetacean Respiratory Limitation
What it is: Whales and dolphins must consciously surface to breathe.

Why it's a flaw: They can drown if unconscious (e.g., during sleep or entanglement).

Evolutionary constraint: Ancestors were land mammals; complete aquatic adaptation remains imperfect.

Why These Flaws Matter
If humans and other species were designed by an all-powerful, intelligent designer, we’d expect optimal, elegant, and efficient systems. Instead, we observe:

Redundancy

Vestigial structures

Inefficiencies

Developmental constraints

Painful trade-offs

These are consistent with natural selection, which works by modifying existing structures, not by designing from scratch.

It doesn't seem like we can say that genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences operate in the continuous present, and not in the past. Don't determinants and constraints pretty much HAVE to operate in the past? How much of the immediate continuous present do we even perceive / experience? The bell that you hear ringing began to ring in the past -- before you heard it. The lightning bolt you saw had already changed by the time your brain registered the flash. Whatever caused you to choose vanilla ice cream over chocolate was in operation before you decided what to get. The past might be only milliseconds old, but it is still the past (of the high-speed CNS). — BC

Our brains are continuously processing information and making decisions - from regulating heart rate and breathing to deciding where to look or how to respond in social situations. The vast majority of brain activity is unconscious. For example, decisions related to motor control, language processing, and threat detection often happen without conscious awareness. Experiments (e.g. Benjamin Libet’s work in the 1980s and later studies using functional MRI and EEG) have shown that brain activity predicting a decision can occur hundreds of milliseconds to several seconds before people report being consciously aware of making that decision. For example, Libet found a "readiness potential" in the brain that preceded conscious awareness of the intention to act. Later research (e.g. Soon et al., 2008) showed researchers could predict a participant’s choice (e.g. left or right button) based on brain activity up to 7 seconds before the participant was aware of deciding.

Yes, the stimulus begins in the past (e.g. the bell ringing), but it is processed in the present by our nervous system. As far as subjective experience goes, we can only experience the present. For example, I can't experience the first time I flew in a plane on 21 September 1982 right now. I can recall the most memorable parts of it, but I can't experience the whole thing exactly as I did back then. Just as I can't experience right now what I will do tomorrow. A plane could be crashing on our house tomorrow (or sooner or later), causing my death.

Thank you for bringing my attention to the behaviours of dogs. I have a doggy friend who sleeps with me and does all the things you have said.

I meant that is not limiting the options. — Red Sky

Genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences determine and limit what a sentient biological organism can do. That's why I can't do what planarian flatworms can do, and they can't do what I can do.

What we can overcome and what we can't overcome is not free from determinants.
— Truth Seeker
At this point I can't help but admit you right. It seems I was thinking too superficially again.
Yes, GENE determines what you can actually do, but it doesn't have as much influence on choice for outside factors. Simply because people can choose to do things they don't know is possible or not. — Red Sky

Genes, environments, nutrients and experiences determine all behaviours. What makes you say: "but it doesn't have as much influence on choice for outside factors. Simply because people can choose to do things they don't know is possible or not."?

It seems like a lot of this has gone really out of hand.
The original topic was about the freedom of choice and underlying factors affecting it.
I have gone too far with some of my statements and for that I apologize. I did this because usually when a person states the kind of things you did, it means that they have lost the value of, are trying to deny, or put something in a bad light. However through our correspondence this doesn't entirely seem to be the case with you.
Anyway, I had some fun with this thread.
I will admit that underlying factors such as GENE have effects on our choice (Whether good or bad), But I will retain my point that you can overcome outside factors, such as environment and experience. — Red Sky

I called the thread Understanding Human Behaviour. If my GENE Causal Self Model has helped you understand human behaviour, then this thread is successful. I am glad you had some fun with this thread. What we can overcome and what we can't overcome is not free from determinants. In fact, it is determined and constrained by our genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences.

I can definitely see how this could be a prime subject for research. — Red Sky

Lots of scientists are using planarian flatworms for many research projects.

I only used soul as a lack of a better word. I do not exactly believe in all that stuff either. You seem to be stating that you merely exist, which I don't understand as well. You keep on saying that you are merely sentient and able to perceive these thoughts and feeling. But that is not a definition of you. What is perceiving and feeling these experiences and emotions. Is it merely your consciousness? — Red Sky

My consciousness is experiencing my thoughts and emotions. My consciousness is temporary, but it lasts as long as I am alive and conscious, while my thoughts and emotions last mere seconds to minutes, then they are replaced by new thoughts and emotions.

My point is not the method but the possibility, I am not going to spend years of effort to precisely answer those questions. — Red Sky

That's fine. I understand your point.

Other people have probably done what you think impossible, what is the difference between you? — Red Sky

All sentient biological organisms have different genes, environments, nutrients and experiences, which cause them to have different behaviours. What is possible for planarian flatworms is impossible for me, e.g. growing back my head after it has been chopped off. Just as what is possible for me is impossible for planarian flatworms, e.g. typing words on this forum.

You are part of the universe, and as such all the things the universe have given you are also part of your own being. — Red Sky

I agree that I am part of the universe. Things such as genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences constructed me, so in that sense, they are part of me.

However, from what I know the DNA chains shorten when cells split. (Or something of the like) Which is what makes us age.
Does this not happen to planarian flatworms? — Red Sky

You're absolutely right: in most animals, DNA chains shorten during cell division, specifically at the telomeres - the protective caps at the ends of chromosomes. Each time a cell divides, telomeres shorten, eventually leading to cell ageing (senescence) and organismal ageing.

But planarian flatworms appear to escape this fate. Here's how:

1. Telomere Maintenance in Planarians
Planarians do not show typical telomere shortening during regeneration and cell division.

This is because their stem cells (neoblasts) express high levels of telomerase, the enzyme that rebuilds telomeres.

In most humans, telomerase is active only in early development or cancer cells, but in planarians, it stays constantly active in their regenerative cells.

2. Eternal Youth via Neoblasts
These neoblasts are pluripotent and renew themselves indefinitely without ageing.

This allows planarians to:

Replace damaged tissues continuously.

Reproduce asexually by fission with no loss of cellular integrity.

Avoid senescence-related deterioration seen in most multicellular animals.

3. Experimental Evidence
Studies (e.g., Wagner et al., 2011) have shown that telomerase activity is critical for the planarian’s regeneration and longevity.

Inhibition of telomerase in planarians leads to impaired regeneration and tissue degradation over time, resembling ageing.

Summary
Planarians do not age the way we do because:

Their telomeres do not shorten dangerously thanks to active telomerase.

Their neoblasts can divide indefinitely and replace old cells.

They have molecular systems that prevent senescence.

Is their ability to regrow their heads the only reason you admire them? — Red Sky

No. Planarian flatworms are truly extraordinary organisms with several remarkable biological features that have fascinated scientists for decades. Here are their most impressive characteristics:

### **1. Regeneration Superpowers**

Planarians are famous for their **astonishing regenerative abilities**:

* They can **regrow an entire body** from just a **tiny fragment** - as little as 1/279th of the original worm.
* If cut in half, each half can regenerate into a fully functioning worm.
* This regeneration is powered by **pluripotent stem cells** called **neoblasts**, which make up around 20 – 30% of their cells.

### **2. Functional Immortality**

Planarians can potentially **live indefinitely** under the right conditions:

* Some species show **no signs of aging** (senescence).
* They can **rejuvenate themselves** by periodically regenerating tissues, essentially “renewing” their bodies.

### **3. Molecular Memory Retention**

Incredibly, planarians can **retain learned behaviors** even **after decapitation**:

* Experiments have shown that trained planarians, when decapitated and regenerated, still "remember" certain behaviours.
* This suggests that **memory may be stored outside the brain**, possibly at the molecular or epigenetic level.

### **4. Simplified Yet Functional Nervous System**

Despite their simplicity, planarians have:

* A **centralized brain-like structure** with two lobes.
* **Two ventral nerve cords** connected by transverse nerves, forming a **ladder-like** nervous system.
* Eyespots that help them **detect light**, enabling **simple decision-making** like moving away from light (negative phototaxis).

### **5. Asexual Reproduction**

Many species reproduce by **fission**:

* They **tear themselves in half**, and each part regenerates the missing half.
* This allows them to **clone themselves** without mating.

### **6. Highly Efficient Stem Cell System**

* Planarian neoblasts are **the only known adult cells** in animals that are **pluripotent**.
* This makes them a **model organism for stem cell and regenerative medicine research**.

### **7. Adaptability and Environmental Sensitivity**

* They respond to a wide range of environmental cues - light, chemicals, and electric fields.
* Their behaviors make them useful for studying **neurotoxicity**, **learning**, and **environmental sensing**.

### ⚖️ **8. Symmetry and Simplicity**

* They have **bilateral symmetry** and a **three-layered body plan** (triploblastic), unlike simpler organisms like cnidarians.
* Lack a circulatory or respiratory system; they rely on **diffusion** for gas exchange.

### **Applications in Science**

Because of all these traits, planarians are:

* A **model organism** in research on **regeneration**, **aging**, **memory**, and **stem cells**.
* Used to study the **evolution of body plans** and the **origins of centralised nervous systems**.

How exactly do they thrive? — Red Sky

They survive and reproduce in situations humans can't e.g. having their head chopped off. That's how they thrive. I would love to be able to grow my head back after it is chopped off. I really admire planarian flatworms.

You are not just a soul, your body and factors you might consider temporary are also part of you. Your brain is a part of you, if it arises from your brain it is also yours. — Red Sky

I am not convinced souls exist. I know that many people believe that humans are immortal souls and souls go to heaven or hell after death depending on their religious beliefs and practices, but I am convinced that these claims are false. Just as I am convinced that the belief that souls reincarnate based on karma is also false.

My thoughts and emotions are not part of me. They are temporary mental states. I am not an entity. I am a temporary sentient process generated by my brain activities.

Im not saying it is easy, but is it impossible? — Red Sky

You didn't answer any of my questions about how I would know when and where you would jettison me in the vastness of space. Even if I were Elon Musk and owned SpaceX, I would still need to know the time and place.

Then I assume you are being impersonal about it, you admit that these experiences have an influence on you. — Red Sky

Yes, my genes, environments, nutrients, and experiences determine and constrain my choices. I am impersonal about it because it is impersonal. The universe is not conscious. It didn't intend for me to come into existence. It didn't plan what genes, environments, nutrients and experiences I would have.

People can overcome some of the these factors.
In your example with ice cream, even if somebody loves chocolate ice cream and hates strawberry (Vanilla man myself), they can still choose strawberry. It is not like it is impossible.
— Red Sky

I think Joe will choose that object of all available objects which will lead in summary to Joe's greatest satisfaction. If Joe feels satisfaction in proving that there is a "free will", he will choose an object he dislikes just to demonstrate his alleged free will. But in fact he just compared the satisfaction regarding his preferred object with the satisfaction regarding the free-will-demo. During the comparison he found out that the free-will-demo will make more fun. So Joe was determined to do the free-will-demo. His personality and personal taste forced him to do this. Yes, there were other choices and they were free in the sense that nobody was threating him with a gun. Freedom requires a reference -- free of what? Free of threats. But the choices were not free regarding his personality and his personal taste. Joe likes the idea of a "free will". That's his ideological taste. So he is determined to construct a proof in order to satisfy his taste. — Quk

I agree.

I am not talking about a role in their life, but more of their personality.
My original intent was that because of immortality many people would experience extremely similar or even exactly similar experiences. This would cause their personalities and some views to be exactly the same.
Genes are important to their life, but immortality is much to long that experiences become more important to personality than genes. — Red Sky

No human is currently immortal. So, I don't have any way to test how being immortal would affect a human. I have already tested how being immortal affects planarian flatworms. They thrive unless I kill them by denaturing their cells by heating them to 300 degrees Celsius. Since they can't talk using English, I couldn't ask them questions about their personality.