Only the mind can experience duration, unless you have communicated with a rock who told you otherwise. — Rich

I think I was talking about another issue.

So we could decide on whether or not to do it? We have two choices at least? — apokrisis

It seems that we are only aware of choices sequentially. I want this or that. This or that is sequential mental state. I have never experience this and that as a coherent mental state at the spot.

Then the decision and all the options form a coherent whole, which is one thing, of which the decision-maker is conscious. — BlueBanana

Interesting. But then why we are not aware of content of the whole? Perhaps we are disturbing consciousness by reflecting on decision while the consciousness is busy with making conscious decision.

Is this thread going to descend into a discussion of Buriden's Ass? — charleton

Why should it go to that direction?

As I have a solution. — charleton

What is your solution?

Says who? — T Clark

Everybody can only focally be conscious of one thing at a time.

I would argue that infinity works on the same principles as an infinite regress. Just as something must have caused the last cause, something greater than the greatest conceivable thing can always be conceived.
Rather than God being the greatest conceivable being, it makes more sense to think of God as the only unconceivable being. — The Curiorist

You didn't get my point. Infinite regress is the process of reaching to infinity.

By Variable I meant something which is subject to change.
— bahman

So then your argument is circular. "Things that change require a variable. Why? — fishfry

It is not circular. Things which change require a variable so we could distinguish different state of them. Without the variable the change cannot manifest itself.

Because a variable is something subject to change." Circular, right? — fishfry

No it is not circular.

Besides, aren't constants variables? The function f(x) = 3 is constant, yet x is the independent variable. You are using a technical term with a different meaning than normal but not fully defining your new meaning. — fishfry

Constant are not variable but you can have a function which is constant.

Duration is not a feeling.
— bahman

I don't know anyone who cannot close their eyes and feel time passing. — Rich

We can experience psychological duration but that is different from duration/real duration which takes place independent of us.

I deny your premise! — Mitchell

Infinite regress is a process of reaching to infinity by finite step which is impossible since infinity+anything finite=infinity.

This is just an idea I had inspired by the somewhat limited arguments of Anselm and Aquinas, which seem to contradict each other slightly; if God is the being that than which nothing greater can be conceived, the implication is the God must be infinitely great, so infinity does exist. Therefore, it seems that Aquinas would be wrong in denying the possibility of an infinite regress. — The Curiorist

Something could be infinite, God. Infinite regress however is the process to reach infinity which is impossible. These are different.

I think that thinking is an unconscious activity. We just become aware of thoughts when they completely formed.
— bahman
We think in a language. When you are conscious of your thoughts you are aware of the voices inside your head. Let's forget about thinking since you believe it is an unconscious activity.. When we say we are are not doing things consciously, what we really mean is that we aren't focused on what we do. — Purple Pond

That I agree. So we can do things without focus. You can focus on your internal world, what unconscious mind delivers, but that could be empty or full depending on whether there is something deliverable there.

I am not sure what is the use of consciousness when all the process for formation of a thought is done unconsciously.
— bahman
So you can vocalize and write precise the thoughts that you are focused on. — Purple Pond

Yes, it seems that we become conscious of thought when they are complete.

I can derive for miles thinking of other things.
— bahman
I bet you can't do that in your sleep when you are not conscious. — Purple Pond

Sleepwalker can do complex things.

People say they do things unconsciously when they really mean is they do it without thinking. Were always conscious of our surroundings though we might not be thinking about it. — Purple Pond

I think that thinking is an unconscious activity. We just become aware of thoughts when they completely formed. I am not sure what is the use of consciousness when all the process for formation of a thought is done unconsciously.

If you were totally unconscious when your driving you'd crash the car. — Purple Pond

I can derive for miles thinking of other things.

Time is real and allows change
— bahman

1.Change is necessary for time.
I don't know if this is a misconception but time is associated with change. Look at how the stoppage of time is portrayed in popular culture. In movies time halt is shown as motion/change slowing down and then stopping.

Imagine, as in the movies, everything stops moving/there is no change. If one is to stay true to the change-time paradigm, then time should stop or become nonexistent. — TheMadFool

We don't have any sense to feel passage of time. Feeling passage of time is completely construct of brain activity. How it can be constructed. Just slow down the speed of subject.

2. Time is not necessary for change. We can have change without the time. Changes can be viewed as sequences of events without time. — TheMadFool

If it is so then all process should elapse in an instant.

If "two states must lay on different points", then why is the concept of time needed in the first place. If any body can be expressed as a set of points in space, then any change can be expressed as a change in the arrangement of those points in space...spacetime. — Cavacava

Because you need to reach from one point to another one and this should take a while otherwise everything elapses in an instant.

Fine but less than satisfying psychologically because it lacks an ego, which, I think is why we think time flows. — Cavacava

What do you mean?

Can you tell us why awareness is needed?
— bahman

Because you can react to being aware of the way the world is rather than stimulus and response (knee jerk reactions). — Purple Pond

Let me ask you the question another way: Have you ever done anything unconsciously? Of course yes, deriving for example. We however sometimes do things consciously too. What is the difference between these two cases? In another word, why we don't always do things unconsciously if we could do it in some occasion?

Time does not lie on a point.
— Rich

I didn't say so.
— bahman

Actually you did. Read your presentation. You are defining duration as lying between two points. Exactly b what lies between two points? — Rich

I said two state of system lie on two different points.

It is a psychological feeling imbued in the mind. We feel time pass we do not see it pass and we associate this passage of time with changes in memory.
— Rich

I was not talking about psychological time.
-bahman

Real time is psychological time. Duration is a feeling. There is nothing physical or v spatial about it. — Rich

Duration is not a feeling. It is time elapsed between two events without that we could not physically reach from one event to another one.

I think that's confusing the map with the territory. Time, whatever it is, just is. The modeling of time via mathematics requires a variable often labelled 't'. Time existed long before the letter t. Variables are a historically contingent abstract idea of humans. In fact letters of the alphabet used as symbolic variables in mathematical expressions didn't come about till relatively recently, in the 13th or 14th centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_algebra — fishfry

By Variable I meant something which is subject to change.

I like your post.

Empirical is the domain of experience, feeling, thought, belief, idea, etc. We use concept to share experience. In this regards, art and religion are also Empirical. Religion deals with a belief you experience for example. We use painting/concept to convey an idea for example.

Time does not lie on a point. — Rich

I didn't say so.

It is a psychological feeling imbued in the mind. We feel time pass we do not see it pass and we associate this passage of time with changes in memory. — Rich

I was not talking about psychological time.

It is interesting to take in views from around the world here in the forum, it takes a degree of vulnerability but the pay off is invaluable. (L) — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I am a physicist but always loved philosophy. I highly hope that my contribution is useful. (L)

Chicago born and raised. Living in the Desert Southwest now. Where are you living now? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I moved around the world. I was born in Tehran and am living in Tehran right now.

Where are you from? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I am from Iran. How about you?

You cannot change the property of a irreducible thing without changing it.
— bahman
What? — BlueBanana

I mean a irreducible thing is defined by its property. It is not a same thing when you change its property.

Nope. I am all female 8-) Most folks know me as super nice but I'll let you in on a secret, just between you and me, okay? When I get up in the morning the Devil himself asks: Is that bitch awake already? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I am dealing with Devils and Angles too. :D

It is a pleasure to meet you~ :D — ArguingWAristotleTiff

It is a pleasure to meet you too. :)

I am right and you are wrong!
— bahman

I have a 50/50 chance at getting this right but are you a male? :P — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Yes, I am. How about you?

RE- call. Implies memory. Remember last week?
No memory is internal, but recalls experiences we conceive of as external.
I did not think I could be more obvious in the way I wrote that. — charleton

I see. How about recalling and the fact that it is not second experience?

I agree that not everything we do is through awareness. But there's a lot we can't do unless we are aware. — Purple Pond

Can you tell us why awareness is needed?

This is off topic so please lets put it aside.
— bahman
It's not. It's an example how a thing is created without reducing it to anything or building it from anything but by changing its properties. — BlueBanana

You cannot change the property of a irreducible thing without changing it. You cannot change a irreducible thing since this requires a destruction and a creation.

I am right and you are wrong! :D

1) we have experiences. — charleton

I agree.

2) we can recall those experiences. — charleton

I agree.

3) Recalling experience is not the same as experiencing a second time. — charleton

I think you are contradicting yourself here. Do you mean that we can recall at the moment we experience something?

4) If we define experience as interaction with the outside world, then we avoid the confusion of thinking
we are experiencing experience. — charleton

So you consider memory as external?

No we recall experience. — charleton

I see. That is a very interesting point that resolve the problem that I have with materialism. So we can never catch the moment and experience the subject matter?

We experience ourselves continually in a way — charleton

You mean recalling?

BUT...I think it makes more sense to define experience as as an interaction with the outside world, not with just our memories as such. — charleton

I don't understand what is the relevance of what you said in here.

Do you want to parse that again?? — charleton

I mean that we are able to focus on experience and be aware of it, in another word experience it.

Time is real and allows change. Consider a change in state of a system, X->Y. Two states cannot lay on each other since the state of affair becomes ill-defined. This means that two state must lay on different points. This means that you need a variable to allow this to happen. There must however be a duration between two points otherwise the change will never takes place. The variable is therefore time.

Something which deterministic just has one outcome.

Physical is the stuff we experience and it ontologically exists. Experience is physical state and it ontologically doesn't exist.

There is evidence from NDE's of consciousness seeming to persist even when the brain itself has no measurable activity. — Wayfarer

How the subject of NDE could remember anything if the brain does not have any measurable activity?

Why it should come to the surface? As I mentioned we can do complex tasks without being aware of them.

No. We can communicate for a long time without being aware of the content, very similar to deriving. It seems that consciousness only comes into play when there is a difficulty that unconscious mind cannot resolve or handle. What is the exact functioning of consciousness in such a situation is not known. That is called hard problem of consciousness.

Brain is physical therefore brain state is physical state.
— bahman
What kind of physical state is? It's not solid, nor liquid, nor gas. — Purple Pond

The number of physical states is enormous, superconductivity, Superfluidity, solid, gas, liquid, etc.

That as I mentioned is related to hard problem of consciousness. It is not clear to philosopher that why we need consciousness in order to communicate for example.
— bahman
I don't agree that the so called "hard problem" is harder than the "easy problem". I believe that they are the same problem.

How is consciousness different than awareness? It's hard to imagine how we can communicate properly if we aren't aware of what's going on. — Purple Pond

Consciousness is similar to awareness.

It is not difficult to imagine that since most of the things which we communicate is the result of unconscious mind activity. We just are conscious of them when we communicate.