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If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimI mean, sure, but I'm not the most well versed in Bible study, but when a bunch of Jewish scholars find repose within Nietzsche's Genealogy, to overcome the source of bad conscience that was driving them to a schizophrenic existence, I'm going to assume there is accuracy there since Jews are always like "you're not a Jew so you wouldn't know..." Okay, well, these intellectual elite Jews would know then, and they advocate and appropriate Nietzsche Genealogy and Psychology and used it in the relaunching of Zionism in the 1890s (which was vastly different than the late 1940s Zionism).
Okay, so they want to appeal to authority. Let's see what the authority says... Oh, whats this? They approve and appropriate from his works? Now, does that mean all Jews agree? No. But he certainly was a massive influence on early Zionist/Zionism and Jewish psychoanalysts.
Early Zionism was to renounce any sort of biologism and nationalism, to build bridges between every nation of man and bring them together. Berdichevski, Brunner, Popper-Lynkeus, Lessing, Herzl, Buber, Chomsky, Zeitlin... the list goes on. Then all that was thrown to the wayside after the Nakba in 1948. Nationalism and self determinism for Jews became it's beck and call.
Could I be wrong for believing all these pre 1940s Zionist? Sure. But then they too would be wrong about their own history and culture and probably shouldn't be considered as intellectual elites. -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimIt’s a genealogy my man, and the Bible outside the Gospels has little to do with Jesus. Besides the last time you quoted the Gospels against me, you kinda punched yourself in the face. As ithe quote stated, those who follow God's laws will be known as the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, whereas those who don't follow God's laws will be known as least in the kingdom of heaven... keyword IN the Kingdom of Heaven... cause Jesus represents God's undying grace and loves everyone, including towards those who would shove a spear through him.
The fuck do you think undying grace means? -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimsure 1-2 centuries before the OT was expressed as a table of categorical values.
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If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimBefore the OT was written that we can be sure of. Since those are the values within the OT. Who gives a fuck about a specific date of when the transvaluation occurred. The fact is that it did occur, and it occurred over an era of time.
When was the exact day you were conceived by your father and mother fucking? If you don’t know then obviously it didn't happen is basically what you're saying... not a very well thought out question or critique.
I'm sure you can say it happened roughly 9 months beforehand... but that's not the exact time stamp... and who really gives a fuck about when your timestamp of conception actually was? -
On the substance dualismthe Cartesian 'thinking thing' is still very much written into the way we think about mind-body relations, often without us being aware of it — Wayfarer
I mean, Nietzsche dispels that quite well enough with BGE 17. Furtherstill in Ecce Homo when detailing how he wrote Thus Spoke Zarathustra. "When" is to say, akin to one meditating and not identifying wtf they're hearing, but rather just hears it without consciousness without analysis... it becomes a sort of white noise, a sort of music and melody. That is when your inner thoughts really come to you, without thinking... one merely becomes the mouth piece of internal unconscious forces. -
On the substance dualismWhat is mental substance?
The object cannot directly perceive its content, the information — MoK
It doesn't—stiumulus happens at the extroceptors (external senesory organs). And moves internally...through physical substances. Perceptions ARE physical realities. There are irreducibly many mental ways of organizing physical perceptions though, which give perceptions a mentalistic air about them.
You always have something solid to say, even when I'm like wtf... no... a moment of ruminating and I'm like, wait wtf... yes... you ever teach before? If you don't mind, @ me in the shout box with some book recommendations? -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimYou're not here to learn a damn thing so shoo. Tis the last I speak with you (here). — DifferentiatingEgg
Applies now that my cascade of thoughts is more or less done... -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimBut Nietzsche levels lots of scorn at Plato, Aristotle, and Kant. — Count Timothy von Icarus
You mean Plato, Socrates and Kant. Aristotle used a double orbit to show two opposites are connected. Just as Heraclitus... N doesn't bash Aristotle, except rarely, more rare than he mocks Spinoza...who he claimed a sort of kinship with...
Which is one of Nietzsche's fundamentals (the plant that grows out of two opposites which are fundamentally of the same cause). -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimI find cruel irony in that though. First, that he who disparaged the crowd became the "philosopher of the masses," and second that he became the philosopher of the masses in this era — Count Timothy von Icarus
You should probably read Thus Spoke Zarathustra more closely then... that was exactly his intention. Not to preach to but to draw from the masses.
A light hath dawned upon me: I need companions—living ones; not dead companions and corpses, which I carry with me where I will.
But I need living companions, who will follow me because they want to follow themselves—and to the place where I will.
A light hath dawned upon me. Not to the people is Zarathustra to speak, but to companions! Zarathustra shall not be the herd’s herdsman and hound!
To allure many from the herd—for that purpose have I come. The people and the herd must be angry with me: a robber shall Zarathustra be called by the herdsmen.
— Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra, Prologue -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimWhen I think: I have cascading series of thoughts, they don't all come out at once... unless you want me to just submit multiple posts in a row. I can do that, if you prefer.
First you whine about historical scholarship and his psychoanalysis... well there are an abundance of those in such professions who appreciate Nietzsche's works. You trying to say his notions are shit when there are many Jewish scholars, which is only a subset of all those who detail his Genealogy as accurate shows your agenda...
You're not here to learn a damn thing so shoo. Tis the last I speak with you (here). -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimNietzsche was not a religious scholar and never seriously studied the traditions he was commenting on. A lot of his "history" is just made up speculation to suit his points. I would advise against swallowing it uncritically. From the standpoint of history, it is more on the level of creative fiction. — Count Timothy von Icarus
It's pretty simple to examine history though. And plenty of historical scholars like Hannah Arendt even detail the history quite well. Further still, we can see the intellecual Jews highly appreciated Nietzsche's Genealogy. It helped them in overcoming the neurosis which was plaguing their kind... (Nietzsche and Zion pg 10-12 Jacob Golomb).
Your little spat there means nothing compared to these scholars who have actually impacted the world while you loaf around here trying to say small things in defending a life denying dogma.
Who exactly were slaves here? — Count Timothy von Icarus
Jews in this case.
It was the Jews who, in opposition to the aristocratic equation (good = aristocratic = beautiful = happy = loved by the gods), dared with a terrifying logic to suggest the contrary equation, and indeed to maintain with the teeth of the most profound hatred (the hatred of weakness) this contrary equation, namely, "the wretched are alone the good; the poor, the weak, the lowly, are alone the good; the suffering, the needy, the sick, the loathsome, are the only ones who are pious, the only ones who are blessed, for them alone is salvation—but you, on the other hand, you aristocrats, you men of power, you are to all eternity the evil, the horrible, the covetous, the insatiate, the godless; eternally also shall you be the unblessed, the cursed, the damned!" — Nietzsche, Genealogy 7
I get that you don’t really study this stuff much, but I do, so carry on with the obtuse bs you're attempting in order to obfuscate, but you're just ignorant on the matter really:
Nietzsche not only supplied the European Jews with the conceptual means to understand their self-hatred and to regard anti-Semitism as a manifestation of inferior mentalities....
The Jewish psychoanalysts (and Herzl as well, as we shall see) were especially attracted by Nietzsche's genealogical methods of unmasking. Nietzsche proclaimed these as a way of freeing oneself from religious, metaphysical, and social ideologies that had previously provided ready-made and inauthentic identities, and thereby attaining a solid sense of selfhood and individual identity. The death of the divine Father-the Jewish God-and the decline of the authority of the human father were responsible for bringing the sons to the schizophrenic state they were now in. — Jacob Golomb, Nietzsche and Zion
And in The Antichrist 24 Nietzsche spells it out quite clearly the origins of Christianity and antisemitism are unoriginal copies of Judaism:
the Christian church, put beside the “people of God,” shows a complete lack of any claim to originality. Precisely for this reason the Jews are the most fateful people in the history of the world: their influence has so falsified the reasoning of mankind in this matter that today the Christian can cherish anti-Semitism without realizing that it is no more than the final consequence of Judaism.
Further still, we know Philo Judeas, a Helenic Jew was responsible for creating the Christian Logos in CE 22-24 with his work "Die Vita Contemplativa" by Hellenizing the Old Testament with Plato's teachings... which would be 8-6 years before Christ began teaching at 30 CE.
So, I'll go with the academics on this one while being wary of you, a Christian, who is really just defending his beliefs against their ugly truths...
And Nietzsche was the first real philosopher to even consider the historical account, of philosophy, through history, philology and etymology... that he didn't write history books doesn't mean he wasn't a discerning scholar of history... pretty weak reasoning there if I may say. -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimWell, you specifically were, which caused you to reify what I was saying towards that particular end. Something one muat be careful of when reading.
A pretty digestible book that could benefit your understanding here is a book by Hannah Arendt "The Human Condition." Im that book she spella out how constellations of thought have changed over centuries. You can just search for a pdf of it to read at your leisure. Not all religions were for the weak, but Judaeo-Christian morality emphasizes this.
The first two Essays in Nietzsche's Genealogy of Morals is a much quicker read, but I'll tell you that many people aren't neaely as discerning as they ought to be while reading Nietzsche. If you read Genealogy of Morals, read the preface too. And make doubly certain of doing your due diligence. One must follow Nietzsche carefully to understand his meanings in depth.
Apologies for disappearing, I fell asleep. Welcome aboard.
PS: religion is about faith, not knowing.
PSS: most here wont engage with such a limited OP. They find them too lacking and probably too common. That's okay though, we all start somewhere, and you seem eager enough to learn and discuss things. Though you'll find a few here who aren't so adjusted to baring, banning and ignoring.
An okay place to gather some knowledge, but the community as a whole is severely lacking. There are posting gurus who live here in these hinterlands of thought. They're fragile nihilists in disguise as philosophers. Except this whole community has little to no impact on the world, let alone on philosophical thought.
Better off reading philosophers of impact rather than the ramblings of the relatively powerless madmen here. -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimYou pretty much heard what you wanted to hear. I told you that the formula of Jesus was:
1. His own values.
2. To love his fate.
3. To build bridges where others would give up.
I suggest you learn to read more discerningly for these forums, friend.
What I did was sanitized it of religion and made it secular.
If you need a label you can label me an atheist. -
If there is a god then he surely isnt all merciful and all loving like islam and Christianity claimThe Bible is mostly a language game that transfigured the values of ancient cultures. The invetor of the concept of "Light and Darkness" Zarathustra, had noticed there was often a certain internal damage done to a person who experiences war. A few Judaeo-Christian values were appropriated from Zarathustra's Zoroastrianism and other mythologies.
The Abrahamic religions grew out of a necessity to justify the lives of slaves against those who treated them as property and trash to be disposed of. Think of it as a style of metaphysical capoeira that armed the masses against their masters.
Jesus' aim is that of God's grace, to usher the sheep to heaven as a good shepherd should for his flock. Jesus in the Gospels is vastly different than the Jesus in say Pauline doctrine. Jesus haa his own equation. And that's in truth what Christianity is all about.
Jesus, a Jew, was rejected from his society for transfiguring the Jewish values to be less resentful, there was no sin (the divorce between man and God) in the gospels, nothing came between Jesus and another, not even those who would kill him. He lived his life to the glad tidings... and the reality of heaven is more like following Jesus' equation, not the doctrine of the Disciples, which is mostly just an injection of Judaism back into Christianity. Not a new faith, but more so a new way of life.
If people were to act like Jesus, then they would feel themselves as if they were in a kingdom of Heaven... otherwise they're remaon under the resentful wrathful and angry laws of God...God cannot be omnipotent and be denied half of the nature of omnipotence.
So the moral of the story is live to the Glad Tidings of Jesus Christ to feel heavenly. -
Quine: Reference and ModalityThis would give us conclusions like "LLMs use language appropriately, so LLMs are language users," etc., and "LLMs are conscious so long as their behavior makes us refer to them as such. — Count Timothy von Icarus
LLMs upset Douglas Hofstadter as he states his whole theory behind GEB is wrong or LLMs are conscious... -
Quine: Reference and ModalityI win — Banno
Not really, I settled this like a month ago... showing Quine uses set theory to inform on linguistics which I infered from studying ordinals and Quine's detailing you cant reference words or substitute them through different modalities because the total set of receptors aren't the same. And some how that confused you greatly... because you obviously never read Quine except for like a few pages.
Reference via different modalities is generally fallacy of equivocation. Plain and simple. Not sure how this got a month of discussion to not even figure that out yet. -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?I edited the prior, but will get back to you Sir.
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Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?But Hilbert's Hotel can accommodate infinitly many new guests. Making the infinite finite means it's defined identity is actually finite, not infinite. Thus your example here is poor imo.
I'll address a few points later, I'm going back to sleep for the time being though, also cause I need to ruminate some more on the topic cause I normally don't consider this topic much. -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?Probably because — BC
Actually, I don't generally think much of the state cause I do what I want regardless of the law because I'm generally not a malicious person. I can be cruel at times, like today, I knew it would eat at me for the rest of my life not relaying my father's last conversation with me to his step mother. She was crushed, and even though I felt a little at odds telling an old woman who I once cared about, as to how she played a huge role in destroying my fathers dreams and his family, it had to be done. I'll probably end up contacting her again here in a few days to let her know that I forgive her, but I'm going to let a B ruminate on just how ignorant and insulting her actions truly are to my father and my family in general. That aside...
I'm talking shit about the state simply because I understand what States do, as I worked for the state for quite some time. At first it was just a cool gig, that was less corporate bullshit, more of my speed in aggressiveness and activity. But you begin to see and realize things like you're really just a paid gangster. Im mostly building upon ideas to understand them better and get more experience discussing certain aspects. -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?Well, see, there's your problem you think people can own land, and empty land at that. What stops someone from settling empty land? The state.
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Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?Don’t you see that you and your frienss could go to some untamed bit of land and make something of it of your own determination? Even with people at odds on this Forum, we could all just decide to get up and move somewhere... but States have us by the balls. We are little more than domesticated tools for its disposal. States monopolize power away from its constituents.
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Dreams and Waking States: An Analogy with Removable DiscontinuityYou're welcome. I think it's an interesting idea because I've always been interested in the undefined and asymtotes of functions. Especially since the identity of a number, say for this example we use 5 and 4.9999999999... repeated are the same in math... yet we can not ever reach an asymtote at 5. However, we can achieve 4.9999999999... repeated infinitly... it's odd to me that they're the same identity, yet one can not be reached when there is the asymtote at 5.
Furthermore I think this concept could make for an excellent story because it's creative. Like say through some scanning device it finds an algorithm of a persons sleeping mind, and they hack into the dreams of the sleeper through finding the undefined variables. Like oh, lets plug in nodes to the undefined socket and warp in. -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?lmao voting and fiat money isn't power...
And on the contrary... I'm laughing at such a notion of power because you're capable of more, every human is. -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?Well my man, that's what happen when a state steals everything from the people... the people look to the state to do everything... to solve their problems... I know I've said it before. And you're presenting the perfect person I was talking about, hence why you want to VOTE...
Mighty big contribution of you towards the end you desire.
Power relegated to voting and fiat money. -
Dreams and Waking States: An Analogy with Removable DiscontinuityQuidquid luce fuit, tenebris agit... "What goes on in the light occurs in the dark, and the otherway round as well."
Though, I do like this conception of yours. The dream being the undefined part of the function. Also welcome aboard, an intriguing first post. -
The case against suicideMost people aren't even functioning at 75% of their capabilities. Muted gene expression from a shit diet and lacking energy from allowing their sedentary BMR to rule them. The list goes on...
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Quine: Reference and ModalityObervation sentences are stimulus-synonymous for a speaker if their stimulus meanings are the same for him. But whereas one’s stimulations and their ranges are a private affair, stimulus synonymy makes sense socially. Sentences are stimulus-synonymous for the community if stimulus-synonymous for each member. This still does not work between languages, unless the community is bilingual. — Quine, Pursuit of Truth
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Epistemic Stances and Rational Obligation - Parts One and TwoWell, I think this Pincock lives up to his name. That a stance may allow for the bridging of a gap in knowledge doesn't make it obligatory. Other stances can render the stance mutable imo, especially when theoretical lacks real-world relevance and practicality.
A theoretical win may not be able to be scalable for several reasons which might take a HOW-to approach. Quine details that we can't ever know WHY a something failed in an experiment that should technically work — in theory. -
A discussion on Denying the AntecedentThat's fine, you can pick up Quine any time to learn... you said keep it brief if someone agrees with you. I kept it brief.
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Epistemic Stances and Rational Obligation - Parts One and TwoI'm still curious, what this achieves? Pretty much seems like a reprhasing of Quine. IE plagiarism.
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A discussion on Denying the AntecedentQuine on modalities... modalities resist substitutivity for reasons like this... swapping the modality in this case brings a falsehood.
That was an excellent first post. I could learn a lot from you. -
Do you wish you never existed?Interesting I wasn't aware, in fact, my father should have done this to his father, who had a few million to his name, via business, but he destroyed my father's dreams and family to go off with his secretary. But my father always was spineless in standing up to his pops.
And so my father went on his way to become independent, but was ultimately torn to piecemeal by a cavern dwelling minotaur of consciousness... My father stopped eating and drinking a few weeks ago. I creamated my father last week, so no need to for me to do such a thing. My mother is sweet in all her ignorance, and doubly innocent due to it, even if she was peculiarly absent. She was there, but never really could fathom me, or even my sister. She doesn't even realize that sometimes her advice is so insulting, regardless, I can't bring myself to hate my parents, especially not my mom. -
Epistemic Stances and Rational Obligation - Parts One and TwoMy question is what's even the appeal of this way of thinking? Seems more like a way of telling others how they ought to think... when it's generally those who think outside the box that press the envelope...
I dont get why people even argue about this kinda shit... "because these epistemic receptors were triggered its obviously gotta be sameness of stimulation between people even though they don't share a homology of nerve endings between the two... to the point its oblogatory for everyone because we all share the same neurons and thought processes..."
Sorry but we're not all one normal person who thinks all the same way...who are exact replicas of the next with the same genetic code and make up and same neurons... -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?
A thousand goals have there been hitherto, for a thousand peoples have there been. Only the fetter for the thousand necks is still lacking; there is lacking the one goal. As yet humanity hath not a goal.
But pray tell me, my brethren, if the goal of humanity be still lacking, is there not also still lacking—humanity itself?—
Thus spake Zarathustra. -
Do you wish you never existed?There are realities where I probably have committed suicide by now. But not this one, I've found a pathway out of my most abysmal hours.
most likely, but even still, I prefered using antinatalism more as an argument against my ignorant parents when I was a kid, before I even knew what (anti)natalism was... it offended me that my parents would give birth to me with so little regard to me afterwards. Even though always present they were still, oddly enough, absentee parents. Never making an effort to ever know me. All while expecting me to live a certain way that I decided I never agreed to do so. To live to a way of life that made me feel sick to my stomach.
I'm a bit of an antinatalist, but I still voted No. -
Are International Human Rights useless because of the presence of National Constitutions?I dont think so. International law tends to be there for the same reason federal/state law exists in the US: Different jurisdictions. And perhaps in those cases of rebellion when a government is over thrown to the point of lawlessness... then international law will come in handy.
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Artificial intelligenceYou're allowed to discuss AI and perhaps even post some content, when discussing differences in output, the main take away I get from it is don't use AI to make low effort posts and try to pass it off as your own work.
If you have an original piece, and want an AI to edit it then post, I'd probably go to a Mod and send them the original first and then the edited to see if it's okay. -
Nietzsche's "There are no facts." Our needs define our senses.Ah, did you mean AS misinterpreted? My fault. ^_^
DifferentiatingEgg
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