It's mostly referring to the highly paid jobs, so in short - unless you have money, nobody cares how smart you might be. You're given an average job instead of the opportunity to work somewhere where your brain would be actually put in use. This way, society would only increase its not just level of education but also growth in general. — Craiya

What is the percentage of high paying jobs in the working world? I really don't have much of an idea but let's suppose it is a generous 10% of all of the jobs in the world. How many people really need to be educated to university level to fulfill those places even if they were all vacant?
How many of those that have graduated or will graduate from the university have good high paying jobs? Not many I'll bet. And it is not because they don't have the money or the experience or the correct education, it is because there are not enough jobs.

I have ex students that have worked hard to get good grades in high school and got scholarships to some good colleges. Even one in Harvard and another just received a 5 year total cost scholarship to study in Japan. And only a couple of them are well off even by local standards.

If a government was to setup a scheme where as you say "your brain would be put to use" it would very quickly be bombarded with claims of discrimination for not letting anyone study what they wanted to instead of what they were good for.
No society needs a couple of thousand new engineers every year, but so many people insist that is what they want to study. The same applies for every other degree that is offered. An many of them would be useless as professionals.

Free or cheap higher education is not the answer, nor is selective higher education. Does anyone have any better ideas?

And don't forget, someone still has to clean and pick up the garbage. If everyone goes to university who will do those jobs?

:up:

Banned alcontali for religiously-inspired extremism. — Baden

:100:/ :100: :clap: One of the best things you have done for the forum. Not the best but one of them.

Personally I would have banned him for just being a twat that loves to paste Wiki stuff, but then I am probably not as ethical as you. :wink:

Keep up the good work mate. :up:

he wanted to teach us to "think and write clearly" — Noble Dust

I have one extra requirement for my students, and they hate it as much as those guys did that teacher's ideas.

I want them to learn to read the freakin instructions.

This is a thread on quotes and in the Lounge section,. no evidence or justification is required.

My personal evidence and justification for the quote is too esoteric and perhaps long to put into the form of a concise and logical argument.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me. — A Seagull

That is very convincing proof of what you said. :lol:

Still humming through Algebra!!!!! :shade: — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Keep on truckin lady. You'll beat them number yet. :up:

I did. :) — A Seagull

So what do you base your statement on? Usually on is expected to provide some sort of evidence. :cool:

Yes, 1930 hours GMT (Green Mandrake Time), 2017-03-03. — S

Someone missed the event, and it was not me. :chin:

Okay, this is a lame post. — Michael Lee

No, it has a lot of potential. All that is missing are the road signs to show the path to take.

I do that from time to time, but I just loved the story. — Michael Lee

Welcome to the club. Free membership and drinks are on the house for the first evening.

Violence is as much a part of human nature as love. It hits some more than others.
If you look at the history and present state of humanity you will find so many examples of how violence was used to overcome the obstacles in the path of many group's advancement. Throughout history conquering the people on the land you wanted or that had the food you needed was the way of life.

Try reading the Iliad using groups as the characters instead of individuals.

I always tried to get my students to put the stories we read into a modern setting. Have you tried doing this. I used this idea to see if the stories carried any messages that were still valid today. Not all of the students were up to the task, but we had some good ideas and a lot of very good discussions.

I don't know where I'm going with this Sir2u. Do you know? — Michael Lee

That sounds a bit like my all time favorite bumper sticker.

"Don't follow me, I'm lost.
Put up some signs and we can follow them and see where we end up.

Hell, Banno used to start with less and get a century thread. :lol:

Christians have managed to extract an enlightened, positive ethical system out their befuddled books. — Nobeernolife

And that I think should be recognized as the only miracle in the whole of christianity.

As is evidenced in the real world, by the progress of christian-based societies. — Nobeernolife

Christian-based societies that would not accept that the earth was not the center of the universe.
Christian-based societies that burned witches.
Christian-based societies that chased fellow christians out of their countries and forced them to go to invade the new world.
Christian-based societies that refuse to allow birth control even though the world is overflowing and the people in many places are a burden upon the society instead of the church.
Christian-based societies that made fortunes by stealing the gold from the countries they invaded.
Christian-based societies that for many years backed the use of slaves, bonded servants and even the sale of babies from the work houses poor and the orphanages.
And so on and so on etc ad infinitum.

Exactly what part of society's development did the religion have? Did their scientist create anything to improve the world? Personally I can not think of one single advance that can actually be credited to the church.

I think you should leave well-enough alone. — Nobeernolife

The only thing I can sympathize with there is your handle, cool. :cool:

The need to share, is it in some way spiritual?

The gods in those days were not shy were they? they came down to our level and let us see them.

Maybe if we all started worshiping Neptune or even Thor they would come back.

There is no question. I just want to share it with you. Sir2u, I need to share it with you. — Michael Lee

OK, cool. :smile:

And the question is ......................................

I think that the christian religions should start using some sort of rigorously trained expert to interpret their moral code.
It is quiet clear to me that there is a gigantic misunderstanding of the ten commandments by the majority of people that do things that are bad.
We really do need an expert to explain them.

No,no, no. What am I saying, how can I be so blind.

They are written down so that everyone can read them. Why would they need to be any interpretation? Is god not wise enough to give them in clearly understandable words so that his people can understand and obey them?

Do not kill!
Does anyone need help understanding that?

The only reason I can think of that could explain the need for specialist to explain the rules is that the people do not have an education and need some one to help. NOT interpret them nor help understand their true meaning as it is written.

But are we out of the middle ages now? There are supposed to be few illiterate people left so the need for people to have holy books read to them should have and appears to have diminished. At least in some parts of the world.

Another thing that I could never understand is why people that have been promised a trip to heaven and a lot of presents when they get there would want to live outside their beloved countries and go to places where they hate the people there because of the god they worship.

Probably better looking as well. :up:

On the other hand, if you listen to even the most extreme and radical Muslims, such as Osama bin Laden or so, or even to some people in the ISIS crowd, have you ever heard them referring to Nazi literature? — alcontali

How could anyone that has no education and cannot read be expected to cite the works of hitler or any other nazi?

As I have mentioned earlier, the holocaust could simply not have taken place in the Middle East or in any other Muslim-majority country because the Nazi policy of die Endlösung der Jüdenfrage is in violation of a long list of legal clauses in the Quran. — alcontali

I could never happen because not enough jews live in those places. But that does not mean that killing on a smaller scale has not happened.

Do not bother to reply, I don't want any more of your garbage directed at me.

So the problem secular morality faces, is, I think, that it is the successor of religious moralities where morality was founded in metaphysics, with God as the pinacle of that metaphysics. Every tradition not only had it's prescriptive rules, but also it 'discriptive' myth where the morality flowed from. Now this is important I think, not only did they say "you have to do this because God says so", they invariably embedded it in a story so people would buy into it more readily. So the purpose to all of this, is to give a morality authority. You need to follow it because it's true. — ChatteringMonkey

https://wwnorton.com/books/The-Atheists-Guide-to-Reality/

That wasn’t the issue. You said you had never met an atheist that says life has no meaning. I showed you one. I could show you other too (Rosenberg). — JohnRB

Sorry to bother you, but I could not remember any Rosenberg saying anything that. I have not read much in the last few years and age has taken a toll on the memory as it has been taking in a lot of new stuff lately.
So could you post a link to this for me please. I did a quick scan of some of by books but could not find anything.

Thanks in advance.

Such, in outline, but even more purposeless, more void of meaning, is the world which Science presents for our belief.

He only points out what science says about the world.

A strange mystery it is that Nature, omnipotent but blind, in the revolutions of her secular hurryings through the abysses of space, has brought forth at last a child, subject still to her power, but gifted with sight, with knowledge of good and evil, with the capacity of judging all the works of his unthinking Mother. In spite of Death, the mark and seal of the parental control, Man is yet free, during his brief years, to examine, to criticise, to know, and in imagination to create. To him alone, in the world with which he is acquainted, this freedom belongs; and in this lies his superiority to the resistless forces that control his outward life.

But he also gives a purpose to life.

You ask 178432 different questions and then you still expect just one answer. — alcontali

And you cannot even count. Where the hell is the facepalm smilie when I need it?

I am completely opposed to freebies. As I have said already, I do not want a ministry for the provision of gratis clothes to the populace. For a long list of reasons, too long to enumerate here, clothing should not be free of charge. The same is true for education and healthcare. I simply do not share that kind of culturally Marxist beliefs. — alcontali

You see, their views are totally contrary to mine. As a man, I do not just pay for myself. I also pay for wife, children, subsidies and allowances to extended family, and charity to neighbours in the wider community. I cannot imagine seeking to ask for freebies from other men. The idea alone is horrifying to me. Other men don't owe me anything. I simply do not want to live in a country with that kind of freebie mentality. — alcontali

I do not have any moral qualm in exploiting freebie systems either. Morality emerges from your moral system. Unless your moral system forbids particular behaviour, this behaviour is deemed permissible. Therefore, I see no problem in helping to bankrupt a flawed freebie system by sucking it dry of its freebies. I would do that with a big smile on my face. — alcontali

I give up with you.
You consistently refuse to answer any question that is asked and you are a bullshitting hypocrite.
Don't bother to answer.

No further explanation is required. Ants and apes don't have beliefs about the meaningfulness of their lives. — JohnRB

They have no doubts about what their purpose is either.

“Such, in outline, even more purposeless, more void of meaning, [than Faustus’ cyclical creation myth] is the world which Science presents for our belief.” - Bertrand Russell, A Free Man’s Worship. — JohnRB

I always liked this paragraph.

The savage, like ourselves, feels the oppression of his impotence before the powers of Nature; but having in himself nothing that he respects more than Power, he is willing to prostrate himself before his gods, without inquiring whether they are worthy of his worship. Pathetic and very terrible is the long history of cruelty and torture, of degradation and human sacrifice, endured in the hope of placating the jealous gods: surely, the trembling believer thinks, when what is most precious has been freely given, their lust for blood must be appeased, and more will not be required. The religion of Moloch--as such creeds may be generically called--is in essence the cringing submission of the slave, who dare not, even in his heart, allow the thought that his master deserves no adulation. Since the independence of ideals is not yet acknowledged, Power may be freely worshipped, and receive an unlimited respect, despite its wanton infliction of pain.

But some of his later works had a better view of things.
But even here he does not say that life has no meaning. He bitches about the truth of man's life as seen from the scientific point of view, but no where does he say that it is not worth living or that it is without purpose.

Ha aha ha! The student debt crisis in the US would not even exist! What a joke! — alcontali

So where is the information about it. One article does not prove anything. If the crisis exists it must be written down somewhere. Let's see the numbers, how many students, how much money, that sort of thing might be believable.

Welcome to the real world! — alcontali

It is a shame that more people are not wealthy enough to live in your real world.

I don't want to brag about that because that will quickly sound arrogant, but I am more than happy with my life! ;-) — alcontali

Where I come from we only brag about things when something can be gained from it. It is usually better to state the facts.

By the way do you plan on answering any of my questions or are you just going to continue spouting articles from the internet?

If it is possible, then why don't you do it?
And if you did it, then where is it documented? — alcontali

Stick around pal, we are working on it as you try to get the knot out of your knickers.

A Christian advocate is threatening to sue the NFL for discrimination towards Christians, showing immodesty without warning, and putting souls in danger. All because of the Lopez-Shakira show — Gregory

We need a rule about that for our moral code, let me think.

Thou shall not do evil to those that try to bring happiness to the masses.

That should stop those idiots going to court.

Forbid thy tongue from mentioning those to which there is no evidence of existence.

That should stop them from blabbing about lost souls. Fucks up Santa Clause as well but you cannot eat your cake ad have it at the same time can you.

I know this creates questions, but what if Christians outlaw pornography and we have all the porn stars making an honest working at Jack in the box! — Gregory

OOOOHhhhhhhh nooooo.

How would all of those poor kids that never get to see a woman naked until they are married to one get an education?

Just thought of something. If we had a separate thread it could be a rival to the Shout Box or the never ending Last Word. :cool:

So we have 2 rules, where do we go from here?

Atheists unite against the behemoth of the religious sects. Let's make a stand and formalize our institution. Then we can claim equal rights and tax privileges like the rest of them do.

:rofl:

New thread OR continue here? :cool:

I think it is about time that we put the atheist moral rules down in writing so that they cannot be denied in the future.

I think that we should just start by making notes of the rules so that we can categorize them later and them put them in hierarchical order.

I have at least one rule that I would definitely like to see in the book, but I am not sure if it would be right to do it here or in a new thread so that everyone interested in living a moral life under the atheistic code of morality can add their ideas for consideration.

One of the most import laws that we should include is as follows.

One should avoid at all costs that the animals kept in one's house as domestic pets be allowed to defecate on the lawn of the neighbor.

What do you guys think?

Sure. Ants. Bumblebees. Are you sure their beliefs are criteria free? — tim wood

Are any beliefs free of criteria?

Life is full of meaning. From my childhood atheists pushed idea of endless universe and how tiny Earth was compared to cosmos. While human life was just product of evolution and had no meaning. Well. These days we've got simulation hypothesis which finally can scientifically reverse this trend and make Life full of meaning again. — IuriiVovchenko

I have never met an atheist that says that life has no meaning, could you possible mention one or two so that I can see what they say.

I know that life has a meaning, to live it the best you can and extract as much happiness as possible from the time you have alive.
What I don't agree with is the idea that there is some sort of celestial, god given meaning to life that we are left in the dark about and have to try and find our way to paradise.

No, I know for a fact that this is not true.

No matter how many times we have asked atheists to do that, they haven't, even though they perfectly well know that it is the Achilles heel of atheism. The truth is that they just cannot do it. Otherwise they would have done it a long time ago already. — alcontali

Who the hell would be interested in writing down a bunch of rules that most people follow without knowing because they are just plain ordinary common sense. Nobody needs a written rule that tells you when you can or cannot beat your wife. They apparently have those written into islamic moral laws though.

Let me ask you a couple of questions. How many atheist are condemned to prison for immoral acts? How many religious people are sentenced for the same crimes?
When you have that information then I will believe that atheists are the bad guy that the data shows them to be.

Atheism may reject God's law, i.e. tenets and rules, but it clearly does not propose alternative tenets or rules. That entails that there would be no need for moral rules. Hence, according to the atheist view, all behaviour would be equally moral.


It does mean that there is no need for ethics in atheism, because it rejects all other, existing rules for ethics without proposing an alternative take on ethics. Therefore, from atheism necessarily entails a trivialist take on morality. — alcontali

Atheism does not reject god's laws, if it can even be proven that they are his to begin with. Atheism rejects the idea of gods existing.
Where is written, as you insist on things being written down to be valid, that there HAS TO BE written moral laws or tenets to guide human behavior?
How does the fact that atheist have no written rules mean that we don't have need for them or have none?
And how can you state at the same time that atheists have no laws and then say that according to atheist laws.
It appears to me that you should start to think about what you write because you are continuously contradicting yourself.

If I propose an alternative to islamic laws about wife beating, would you guys pay any attention? of course not because my rules are not written in a pretty little book that is supposed to have some sort of authority. But wait a minute, who authorized your little book anyway? Why is your little book any more authorized to be the guide to human morality than the bible, the Torah, or The Lord of the Rings. Personally I would adopt the last if I had to make a choice about moral guidelines for my life, it is much more realistic.

Furthermore, an atheist who is consistent will not accept God's law while simultaneously rejecting the lawmaking God. — alcontali

Not accepting a god's law and behaving properly according to the society in which one lives are not at all contradictory.

That behaviour does not make sense. Seriously, why would he do that? Why would he put in effort in keeping the self-discipline mandated by a God in whom he does not believe? How would he motivate that to himself? — alcontali

So if you live in a society that is not islamic, you would not respect their ideals, laws and so on? Most atheist can get along with anyone and everyone that also respects their point of view whilst disagreeing with it. An atheist is usually self motivated to get along with the rest of humanity because it would be just plain bloody stupid to antagonize the people around you all of the time.
I have lived and visited in many countries in Europe and the Americas and have never had any problems adapting to their way of life. If you look at the situation in Europe right now you will see that the muslims that go there to take advantage of the freebie system fail drastically to adapt the their new home and spend most of the time trying to live exactly as they did in the old country which they were too happy to escape from.

I am still waiting for an answer to my questions.

Think about it, do you really go to the school and tell them how to educate the kids and what to teach them? — Sir2u

Yes, I do. I took my kids out of school for a whole year, appointed an (excellent) Filipina tutor for their English instead. Next, we travelled all together around SE Asia for the whole year. The result is that my kids are now fluent in English while their current classmates are absolutely not. So, I simply changed the priorities. — alcontali

Once again you are contradicting yourself. First you say that you can tell the schools what to do, then you say that you had to take your kids out of school to do what you wanted to do with them. Make up your mind.

Saddling an entire generation with usury-infested student-loan debt? Wow. Do you want a revolution, or yet another insurgency, or what?

By the way, saddling someone with usury-infested loans is not the same as giving that person "help".

In that case, you are not helping the student. Instead, you will be helping the banksters that will originate these loans and who will make endless amounts of money from charging usury on them. You will also be helping the universities who will be able to pay million-dollar salary to their principal and faculty deans. The students? Not so much. With their worthless degree they will, more likely than not, end up in a dead-end part-time job slinging coffees at Starbucks. — alcontali

Once again you are you are failing to answer a simple question. If you don't have an answer it would be easier to say so instead of repeating yourself with non answers I do not want.

You really do not seem to understand the student loan crisis, do you? — alcontali

Apart from the fact that you have not shown any data to even prove that this crisis exists, I understand it perfectly and I don't care about it. I doubt that anyone put a gun to anyone's head and forced them to take a loan. So it is not my problem.
If you read the article you provided a link to it says that many students are using other methods of obtaining an education, so there are alternative ways if the people were not too lazy to look for and consider other ways to do things. If they are lazy, then they deserve the wrath allah, thor, apollo and anyone else.

You seem to think that your simplistic way of reasoning is solving a problem. No, it is creating problems! — alcontali

Sadly I have not tried to solve the problems of anyone else. I solve my own and those I get paid to solve.

If you want to learn how to solve problems, then study some engineering instead of your liberal-art nonsense. Do something "hard" for a change! As I have told you earlier, your simple minded views do not solve the problem. No, they are the problem! — alcontali

You are certainly a presumptuous little man are you not. If you had asked, or bothered to look at any of my other posts would feel stupid after making this comment.

I have a degree in engineering and design of factories.
I am a qualified welder
I am a qualified plumber
I am a qualified electrician
I am qualified to work on automobile and marine engines and drive systems
I have designed and built several house including the one I live in that survived an earthquake of 7.3

What the fuck have you done with your pompous little life?

I only addressed the question of education. It is not hard to become a worthless idiot of whom the stupidity is certified by a worthless degree along with spectacular student-loan debt. So, the question of education is not necessarily simple. Should children spend their childhood in public-school indoctrination camp and then acquire a worthless degree in a dumb liberal-art subject? Maybe or maybe not. That is certainly debatable. I do not send my children to public-school indoctrination camp. I do not believe that they could ever benefit from that. When I look at that kind of large-scale imbecilization factories, I even wonder why they exist in the first place? — alcontali

Blah, blah, blah.

When are you going to answer the question?

I asked about the predisposition of people against getting an education, are they or are they not predisposed to avoid getting an education.

But what exactly is knowledge? Do we even agree on that matter? Memorizing phone books replete with trivia does not amount to acquiring knowledge. On the contrary, that is utmost worthless. Furthermore, not even one of the culturally-Marxist beliefs that children learn in public-school indoctrination camps can be considered justified in epistemological terms. Again, all of that is worthless, and often even dangerous.

So, what the indoctrination camps teach, is usually not even knowledge. Still, even when the subject matter really is knowledge, I still do not support the practice of memorizing such knowledge databases. As far as I am concerned, either you use the machine, or else you build the machine, because in all other cases, it is you the machine. — alcontali

I did not ask for your opinion of the education system, I asked about the predisposition of people against getting an education.

I pay for the education of my children, but under my terms. — alcontali

No you don't, you pay under the terms of the place you choice to educate your kids. Nowhere do you get to chose anything more than what is being offered by the different school. Think about it, do you really go to the school and tell them how to educate the kids and what to teach them? Of course not, all you do is chose which of the terms being offered you will accept. EXACTLY the same as the people that CHOSE to pay student loans.

I am completely opposed to freebies. As I have said already, I do not want a ministry for the provision of gratis clothes to the populace. For a long list of reasons, too long to enumerate here, clothing should not be free of charge. The same is true for education and healthcare. I simply do not share that kind of culturally Marxist beliefs. — alcontali

Again, I did not ask for your opinion of of political systems, I asked how many islamic countries have free educational systems. I will make it easier for you. How many islamic countries have college level education systems that anyone can get financial help to study in?

It is Allah's punishment for adopting false, pagan beliefs. If these people refuse to accept the truth, then they will still have to accept all consequences of doing so. Unfortunately, it is the very same people who engage in irresponsible behaviour who will later on demand that other, more responsible people bail them out. I can almost guarantee that these born idiots will not even pay off their student loans. They will again want freebies instead. I utterly despise these irresponsible freebie retards. — alcontali

So, let's look at an imaginary scenario and try to put your way of thinking in context.
I am too poor to pay for my smart kid's education.
He has a dream of becoming a physicist and then going on to work to build cleaner energy systems and help make the world a better place.
The government offers him a loan so that fulfill his dream.
So allah will punish him for not accepting the truth that he is too poor to study and indulging in irresponsible behavior?
And then someone like you automatically labels him a born idiot that only wants to leech off the responsible people like you that are lucky enough to have enough money to pay for their kids.

I would like to see the statistics that you have used to decide that people that use student loans are all born idiots and never pay back the money, could you please supply a link to that information.

You see, their views are totally contrary to mine. As a man, I do not just pay for myself. I also pay for wife, children, subsidies and allowances to extended family, and charity to neighbours in the wider community. — alcontali

So because their views are contrary to yours they have to be wrong. Why do you give charity to the community, is that the same as the freebies you so despise? You don't you insist on them paying their own way just like you do?
Saying that there should be no freebies for anyone then giving to charities makes you a hypocrite.

I cannot imagine seeking to ask for freebies from other men. The idea alone is horrifying to me. Other men don't owe me anything. I simply do not want to live in a country with that kind of freebie mentality. — alcontali

It is obvious that you have never been and I sincerely hope that you never become poor.
Because as a poor person you will usually have only 2 options;
1. learn to beg, borrow and steal to get what you need.
2. Die a sad death.

I don't usually stoop to these levels of argument but I think the question is valid here.

If, as you say, allah provides for all that follow his rules, then why are there sooooo many hungry muslims?
Could it be that they were/are all born idiots.

Would that not depend on what you plan to study?

I almost forgot to mention this, here is the website of the author you mentioned.

http://assholeconsulting.com/bio/

Very convincing isn't it. :chin: :worry:

Edit: Sorry EricH this was sent as a reply to the wrong person.

I have picked just one of your simplistic alarming phrases. — alcontali

You can pick all of the phrases you want, but answer the question I asked. So far you have not answered a single question of mine, you always sidestep them.

I have no interest in what the corporate, religious or even ethnic teachings and preachings are trying to do to the masses.
I asked about the predisposition of people against getting an education, are they or are they not predisposed to avoid getting an education. And to make sure it is clear what I am asking let us define education as any form of gaining knowledge.

If people are not predisposed towards avoiding an education, why should they not be asked to pay for it?

I am not interested in how they pay for it, that is their personal choice. If they are willing to accept a loan and get a worthless degree because they are too lazy to do the math beforehand or to find something better, that is their problem.
Comparing government loans to loan sharks might be correct, but no one forces anyone to take the money. They are free to do as many of us did and get a job to pay for their education. I worked for several years in the municipal garbage collection department to pay for mine.

How many islamic countries have free educational systems for their inhabitants?

Maybe we should discuss something like Aaron Clarey's book, "Worthless" first: — alcontali

Maybe I would discuss it with you if you have read it, but because you posted an Amazon review instead of your own thoughts on the book I doubt that you have much to say. I read the book several years ago and was not all that impressed with it. "The curse of a high IQ" was better.

Someone with a worthless degree is not just an idiot. That person is even a certifiable and certified idiot, and has his/her worthless degree, along with the balance statement on outstanding student loan debt, to prove that very fact. Look. There it is: The official certificates of stupidity testifying to the retardedness of their holder, the king or queen of idiots. — alcontali

I agree, there are a lot of people with useless degrees out there and no job. But who's fault is it? As you say, they were stupid enough to fall for the lies.
OK, so how many companies can you name that are hiring personnel in management and upward level jobs that are not asking for college degrees? Note that I am not asking for the jobs and companies that people invent for themselves, but for the jobs that people look for to pay their bills, buy a house, improve their level of living, and maybe have a health/retirement fund attached to it.

Contact with twins? Are you suggesting we rely on arguments from anecdote now? — Artemis

No, I am asking you to clarify why you think that you are right and that I am wrong just because of one article that you read. On what do you base your certainty? The article was not even a scientific report, but one of many news articles that contain parts of a report. And there are other reports that show that environment does make quite a bit of difference.

Once and for all, stick to any objectively verifiable data you can present and argue with me on those same grounds. I'm not going to discuss my own person with you. Take it or leave it. — Artemis

So let's look at all of the object verifiable data then. I think that if you read more you will find that science does not have enough verifiable data to be able to say exactly why people are like they are. If they did there would be lots of things in the news about it, the biggest discovery of the century type of stuff.

I don't want to discuss your person with you, I just would like to know if you are qualified to state what your are stating. Which is quite apparent you are not as the only thing that I can imagine about you is that you have some sort of infatuation about twins. How is Apollo by the way?

So if you do not want to explain how you are able to assert the "facts" you give I have no reason to believe you, I would like to see the evidence about your knowledge. Take it or leave it.