Every so often there's proof of culture above and beyond my own. The Japanese, for example, do not waste time with 12 ounce beer bottles, but just sell liter bottles. — tim wood

I will stick to 330ml cans, they are cheaper, you can sell the cans later, and I can still count them up to about ten.

A good thread should have the following ingredients:
Posters that have the following;
A good measure of knowledge on the topic.
The willingness to learn what is not known about the topic.
The ability to express clearly their ideas without biases.

The topic should be;
Something that would be interesting to the people you wish to post in the thread.
Presented at the right time
Off limits to assholes.

Does anyone agree that ideally all disputes should end in a Rogerian manner? — Posty McPostface

I hope that word is not the one that was in use a lot in England.

roger: have sexual intercourse

Cracking good stories. Lots of science fiction novels feature sentient machines. Apparently the authors and enthusiastic readers of these novels are not members here. — Bitter Crank

I am here to represent them. :up:

The question I have asked and never got a decent answer to is how can people believe that god has no knowledge of some part of the universe, if he created the it he must know everything on a personal level.

The Paradox of Omniscience sets up the argument that because God is omniscient, He must know how to learn what he doesn’t know and therefore know by acquaintance lust, envy, and other such things He can’t know. — Play-doh

Where did the idea that god cannot know about these things come from?

Just saying that he cannot know about lust rules out omniscience. Knowing by association is not knowing. You can listen all day to people lecturing about lust, even watch people experiencing it but that does not mean that you know it.

It's a SHOUTBOX, if it had ANY philosophical content in it it was probably placed there by mistake. :lol:

But parents establish the values of their children, for better and for worse--quite often the latter. — Bitter Crank

Where I work we have about 1,300 students, PreS - 11, many of them see their parents when they get up and if they are lucky for a few minutes before they go to bed. I had parent ask me recently what I am doing about his kids behavior because all got from me was complaints about the kid not working in class and making a lot of noise to distract others. The boss was not happy when the parent told her my reply,

"I am paid to try and educate your son, if you cannot teach him to shut up and listen to the teacher then there is nothing more I can do for him except send you messages about how he misbehaves."

I went through a very small town school (1952-64) where havoc rarely, if ever, existed. — Bitter Crank

I went to 13 different schools in England, Canada and the USA, and I cannot remember any of them ever having to have teachers supervising recess, there was usually one around somewhere but not policing the kids like they have to do today. Most of the time the kids were the ones to make sure everyone behaved properly so that the teachers would stay away.

Most children are reasonably well socialized with reasonably decent values. Alas, not all. — Bitter Crank

You only need one in a hundred to cause havoc. Unfortunately in most schools there are several hundred students and a lot of those that have parents believe it is the schools job to teach values to their kids.

Do atheists have beliefs about the self and the universe which they follow with great devotion?

A: Yes all atheists must have such beliefs and follow those beliefs with great devotion. — Marcus de Brun

I have to call BS on this, where did you ever get such an idea?

Every thinking human has ideas about self and the universe but to call them beliefs is ridiculous.

But that red cow means I have to go get my bug-out bag ready. — Akanthinos

Mine is under my bed.

Hope I get to so you all in real after the Rapture. :halo: — Akanthinos

You wont get to see me, I am going to fucking hell. And the emphasis, I hope, will be on the fucking. :cool: :naughty: :fire:

And here it is folks, the news we have all held our breathes waiting for.

I warned you, I told you that they end of the world was coming. And here is the proof.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/bible-prophecy-realised-first-red-13213028

Proof that the end of the world is not bullshit,

it is cow shit. :lol:

I expect Jove will have to hurl lightning bolts from Mt. Olympus to so much as get their attention. Then turn them from anxious Anglicans to mild mice which will be set upon by Catholic cats which will be set upon by Lutheran lions and finally be annihilated by Zoroastrianism zealots. — Bitter Crank

You forgot the Amazonian shamans and their poison darts.

I saw a few minutes of a soccer game the missus was watching, American soccer league, and there was a big banner in the background advertising some church. How low they have fallen.

We'll see. — Thomas Stevenson

That will be interesting.

That may be, but the question is: are they finding answers in the church? — Bitter Crank

What, they are not getting answers? How could that be with so many churches nowadays offering prepaid prayers for your problems, confessional, and acceptance of donations directly from your cellphone.

Or is that the problem. Maybe they are trying too hard to get into peoples lives that the people are starting to look at them as just another service being provide, but without the fun and and no visible return from it.

Mostly not, at least at the present time. A lot of what people are getting is the unsatisfying hog swill of popular commercial culture. If the churches want to become the font again, they will have to again undergo a serious reformation of their spirit. — Bitter Crank

Ain't that the truth. Doubt it will happen with a bunch of conservative bishops getting ready to pull a coup.

Nah. We have South America, we're good and comfy while you guys go extinct. — Akanthinos

Well where I live in Central America things are going downhill for them too.

What ever is the world coming to?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/fears-church-england-apos-future-230100282.html

The catholics must be having an even harder time of it because I would suppose that the same thing is affecting their ranks and all of the abuse and corruption problems they are having.

Oh no, the end of the world is nigh! :scream:

Interesting how some of the replies try to address the (possible) non-literal meanings the phrases might carry. :up: — Pattern-chaser

Is there any suggestion that there might be either literal or non-literal meanings? The OP asks people for suggestions about the possible meaning. Anything is therefore a possible correct answer.

Disappointing, but not surprising, how many take them literally, then wonder why they make so little sense.... :wink: :smile: — Pattern-chaser

Again, is there any reason not to take them literally? Are you an artist? For all we know they might be nothing more than ideas for a painting, or even names for a book.

These statements were made by artists. :smile: — Pattern-chaser

First of all they are not statements but questions. Secondly there is no proof that they were written by an artist. If they had been found near a police station, would you have taken them to be crime scene notes?

People care about God. — Lif3r

Not me.

I read Homo Deus a while ago, it was interesting. I cannot remember much about the detail but I have it marked down to read again. I have just found Sapiens so I will probable read that first.

I believe we should consider another definition of "God" other than the definition that seems to be prevalent of "Magic sky person". — Lif3r

Then it would not be a god.

If you gaze into an abbess, she'll probably be quite annoyed. — Bitter Crank

But it would be nicer to do. :joke:

What is the most important perspective of "good" for the longevity of the human species?

Is it the individuals perspective, the societies perspective, the international perspective, the global perspective, or an unnamed perspective? — Lif3r

Are you using "good" here as in morally good, or good in the sense of beneficial? It makes a difference.

What happens when you stare into the abyss? — Bitter Crank

You get scared? :gasp:

I said "what is good cannot be a matter of definition" — Janus

What is good, is defined as good. It is nothing but a matter of choice upon what action, person or object to bestow that definition. The choice is the people's.

The book is like a dictionary, you can read the history of the words a few at a time. Quite interesting where some words come from and how the have changed over time.

Does this mean ownership goes all the way back to the first person who realized what the Earth was? — Lif3r

That is why there are so many Irish in the USA,"cus god's green earth belongs to mankind to do wid as he sees fittin". And because the Irish and not the Israelis are god's chosen people they took over the greener grass on the other side of the pond.

*real & *licence — Sapientia

Just like always, when you cannot say anything useful you pick on peoples grammar and spelling.
And you fall for them every time. It is so much fun making mistakes just for you to find that I am actually thinking of making an official grammar nazi thread just for you to play with yourself in.. And you are not doing your job right because I left several other easter eggs for you in other posts.

Good luck trying to get through my force field. And yes, I do have super powers. — Sapientia

:lol: I think that this is mis-posted, it should have been in the joke thread. :rofl:

I made how many mistakes did I make here.

What is good cannot be a matter of definition, obviously. It is a matter of general human consensus based on the sum of experience. — Janus

What do you think a dictionary is? It is a book containing the different uses of words, based on human consensus.
And the funny thing about it is the way it changes over time. Words that meant one thing 50 years ago might mean something different today. Words in English are mostly adapted or adopted into the language from somewhere else. There is not word in any language that does not have a definition for it would be impossible to use it. It therefore depends upon human consensus to say what a word means. Good means what ever the society, group or nation decide it means for them. There is no 100% universal definition for it.

The book called "The Accidental Dictionary" might be of interest to you.Let me know (PM) if you are interested in reading it.

In other words, just because the theory seems like it would work, doesn't mean that it will once it's put into play. — Lif3r

The best laid plans in war and politics unravel at first contact with the opposition. Can you name one case were politically motivated morals have been a success?

One resolution would be to maintain that "good" is in some ways indefinable. This was G. E. Moore's answer, as I understand it. — Sapientia

So good could be used to describe anything, now I understand why they say "That is good shit". Because of course shit is good.
But you failed to understand that he actually said.

Whereas you'd miss an eighteen-wheeler if it were parked right under your nose. — Sapientia

I am delighted that you can actually spell such a big word, but the really question is would you recognize one when I run you over with it? And yes I had a licenses to drive heavy goods up to 26 wheels and 55 tonnes.

Perhaps I am missing a joke. (Yet again) — Lif3r

No, you did not miss anything.

but can we compare the two and deduce which could be considered "more moral"? — Lif3r

Idealist political theories and real time political practices are two different things. One does not really judge in my opinion the theories, we judge the actions.
Real life communism was in no was like the theory, therefore it should really be judged as men's actions. The same does not really apply to capitalism, the theory fits pretty well to the real thing.

I think therefore that politics should be left out of moral theory because what it really comes down to is the way people practice their political beliefs. That can be judged moral correct or not but not the beliefs themselves.
The same applies to many other categories as well. Jews are not more moral than Hindus, red heads are not more moral than blondes.

And that's a problem because now I have to ask myself if something you post can be taken seriously; if, in short, it's worth replying to. — tim wood

And the answer is obvious. No.

Capitalism is moral when the people involved in it utilize it with moral standards in mind.
Eg: I helped someone in order to acquire this ring.

Capitalism is immoral when the people involved in it abuse it with immoral standards in mind.
Eg: I stole this ring. — Lif3r

Mixing political and moral ideas is not a good idea, and the same can be said about any political system.

Communism is moral when the people involved in it utilize it with moral standards in mind.
Eg: I helped society in order to acquire this ring.

Communism is immoral when the people involved in it abuse it with immoral standards in mind.
Eg: I stole this ring.

The ring was given to his daughter by a boyfriend when she was 16 (she is 31 now). She did not marry that guy (he was glad about that.) — Sam Sam

Hey, I got that part almost right.

All worked out kind of cool really. Everyone happy and good deeds done for the day, it is time to hit the sack.
Night all.

It is a simple matter to just say to this man "just leave the box!" But is another matter entirely if you are this man. — Lucid

This sounds like a metaphorical story for a bum marriage.

Good point. I have seen ads in the yard sale section of the newspaper asking please return my golf clubs (or whatever) I did not mean to sell them. But again, he likely does not know it is gone. — Sam Sam

Or he might never have known it was there. :wink:

In Sir2u's post, he wasn't referencing reimbursement, but "reward," meaning a special something for being a good guy. I don't see where that would be warranted. — Hanover

If you had read the thread you would have known that I was responding to

Follow Up Question - If I am able to reach the seller I will return it and ask nothing in return. But, if he offers me a reward, is it proper for me to accept it? — Sam Sam

Why are you entertaining the remote possibility that an unrelated person hid a diamond ring in someone else's train set? — Hanover

Nowhere on this thread has it been stated that anyone hid a box containing a ring in a train set box. That it was found there does not imply even remotely that it was.
The box could have been bought from another yard sale for a kid that did not even bother to take it out of the box.
Maybe the owner throw the thing in to get rid of it because he/she broke up with the other party.
Maybe one of the kids stole it from granny and hid it there till they could sell it, then forgot.

There are dozens of possibilities, why do you think it was hidden there?

Under what theory do we now demand payment for doing what is ethical? — Hanover

Why would I need a theory? Common sense says that I do not have to spend money on returning anything to people that cannot look after their own stuff.
But I think Michael says it nicely.

Is it unethical of me to not pay to fix a mistake another person made? If it costs me then it's charity, and charity is a choice, not an ethical obligation. — Michael

And suppose they are uppity? Are they then not deserving of ethical treatment? — Hanover

At least they should be nice about the ethical treatment one gives them. How could it be morally correct of them to think that others should pay for their screw ups? I know I would probably pay all the expenses and a reasonable reward to the person that returned the ring I had stole 30 years ago.

This idea seems consistent with the theme of trying to find some rationalization for keeping what is not yours. It also shows some hostility towards the person, as if they're not really worthy of the ring, but the rules require it's return, so you'll do it, but you're going to be as difficult as possible. — Hanover

If I wanted to keep it I would, moral or not, I doubt that I would waste my time rationalizing or making excuses bout it though. If I was going to steal it I would just do it. And it is not really up to me to make things easy for them to recover their property, that is their job. But again I would not waste my time nor energy helping some one that is not polite.

How did so many people find out about the yard sale?

I would presume from some sort of advertising. Using the same method he could reach out to those that attended.