What is good cannot be a matter of definition, obviously. It is a matter of general human consensus based on the sum of experience. — Janus

What do you think a dictionary is? It is a book containing the different uses of words, based on human consensus.
And the funny thing about it is the way it changes over time. Words that meant one thing 50 years ago might mean something different today. Words in English are mostly adapted or adopted into the language from somewhere else. There is not word in any language that does not have a definition for it would be impossible to use it. It therefore depends upon human consensus to say what a word means. Good means what ever the society, group or nation decide it means for them. There is no 100% universal definition for it.

The book called "The Accidental Dictionary" might be of interest to you.Let me know (PM) if you are interested in reading it.

In other words, just because the theory seems like it would work, doesn't mean that it will once it's put into play. — Lif3r

The best laid plans in war and politics unravel at first contact with the opposition. Can you name one case were politically motivated morals have been a success?

One resolution would be to maintain that "good" is in some ways indefinable. This was G. E. Moore's answer, as I understand it. — Sapientia

So good could be used to describe anything, now I understand why they say "That is good shit". Because of course shit is good.
But you failed to understand that he actually said.

Whereas you'd miss an eighteen-wheeler if it were parked right under your nose. — Sapientia

I am delighted that you can actually spell such a big word, but the really question is would you recognize one when I run you over with it? And yes I had a licenses to drive heavy goods up to 26 wheels and 55 tonnes.

Perhaps I am missing a joke. (Yet again) — Lif3r

No, you did not miss anything.

but can we compare the two and deduce which could be considered "more moral"? — Lif3r

Idealist political theories and real time political practices are two different things. One does not really judge in my opinion the theories, we judge the actions.
Real life communism was in no was like the theory, therefore it should really be judged as men's actions. The same does not really apply to capitalism, the theory fits pretty well to the real thing.

I think therefore that politics should be left out of moral theory because what it really comes down to is the way people practice their political beliefs. That can be judged moral correct or not but not the beliefs themselves.
The same applies to many other categories as well. Jews are not more moral than Hindus, red heads are not more moral than blondes.

And that's a problem because now I have to ask myself if something you post can be taken seriously; if, in short, it's worth replying to. — tim wood

And the answer is obvious. No.

Capitalism is moral when the people involved in it utilize it with moral standards in mind.
Eg: I helped someone in order to acquire this ring.

Capitalism is immoral when the people involved in it abuse it with immoral standards in mind.
Eg: I stole this ring. — Lif3r

Mixing political and moral ideas is not a good idea, and the same can be said about any political system.

Communism is moral when the people involved in it utilize it with moral standards in mind.
Eg: I helped society in order to acquire this ring.

Communism is immoral when the people involved in it abuse it with immoral standards in mind.
Eg: I stole this ring.

The ring was given to his daughter by a boyfriend when she was 16 (she is 31 now). She did not marry that guy (he was glad about that.) — Sam Sam

Hey, I got that part almost right.

All worked out kind of cool really. Everyone happy and good deeds done for the day, it is time to hit the sack.
Night all.

It is a simple matter to just say to this man "just leave the box!" But is another matter entirely if you are this man. — Lucid

This sounds like a metaphorical story for a bum marriage.

Good point. I have seen ads in the yard sale section of the newspaper asking please return my golf clubs (or whatever) I did not mean to sell them. But again, he likely does not know it is gone. — Sam Sam

Or he might never have known it was there. :wink:

In Sir2u's post, he wasn't referencing reimbursement, but "reward," meaning a special something for being a good guy. I don't see where that would be warranted. — Hanover

If you had read the thread you would have known that I was responding to

Follow Up Question - If I am able to reach the seller I will return it and ask nothing in return. But, if he offers me a reward, is it proper for me to accept it? — Sam Sam

Why are you entertaining the remote possibility that an unrelated person hid a diamond ring in someone else's train set? — Hanover

Nowhere on this thread has it been stated that anyone hid a box containing a ring in a train set box. That it was found there does not imply even remotely that it was.
The box could have been bought from another yard sale for a kid that did not even bother to take it out of the box.
Maybe the owner throw the thing in to get rid of it because he/she broke up with the other party.
Maybe one of the kids stole it from granny and hid it there till they could sell it, then forgot.

There are dozens of possibilities, why do you think it was hidden there?

Under what theory do we now demand payment for doing what is ethical? — Hanover

Why would I need a theory? Common sense says that I do not have to spend money on returning anything to people that cannot look after their own stuff.
But I think Michael says it nicely.

Is it unethical of me to not pay to fix a mistake another person made? If it costs me then it's charity, and charity is a choice, not an ethical obligation. — Michael

And suppose they are uppity? Are they then not deserving of ethical treatment? — Hanover

At least they should be nice about the ethical treatment one gives them. How could it be morally correct of them to think that others should pay for their screw ups? I know I would probably pay all the expenses and a reasonable reward to the person that returned the ring I had stole 30 years ago.

This idea seems consistent with the theme of trying to find some rationalization for keeping what is not yours. It also shows some hostility towards the person, as if they're not really worthy of the ring, but the rules require it's return, so you'll do it, but you're going to be as difficult as possible. — Hanover

If I wanted to keep it I would, moral or not, I doubt that I would waste my time rationalizing or making excuses bout it though. If I was going to steal it I would just do it. And it is not really up to me to make things easy for them to recover their property, that is their job. But again I would not waste my time nor energy helping some one that is not polite.

How did so many people find out about the yard sale?

I would presume from some sort of advertising. Using the same method he could reach out to those that attended.

Okay, agreed.
Could we say that these two statements are the same?
"Nothing is the absence of anything."
"Nothing is the absence of everything."

And if not, what is the distinction? — Lif3r

Anything states one thing, therefore the statement implies that there are or might be others.

With everything there is no room to doubt.

Put it on your bucket list of things to do before you die. — Posty McPostface

The freaking thing is sooooooooo loooooong I will need a couple of life times already. But I guess I could put it together with #4587 "Go to Political Conference". Might make for an interesting day.

Can't smoke that stuff. Makes me (more) paranoid than I already am. Heh. — Posty McPostface

Never tried it myself, I used to prefer cigar when I smoked.

Actually the film that came to mind when I read the OP was The Priceless Pocket. A man had a pair of trousers that gave him money every time he put his hand in the pocket. The government eventually bought the pants of him because they could not prove he was doing anything illegal. He bought a nice new suit and started pulling money from the pocket.

How about "Nothing is the opposite of everything." — Lif3r

Nothing, being nothing can have no opposite.

Follow Up Question - If I am able to reach the seller I will return it and ask nothing in return. But, if he offers me a reward, is it proper for me to accept it? — Sam Sam

I hope that you did not give the seller too much info, maybe they would like it back even if it is not theirs.

If they offer you a reward, accept it. If it costs you anything above a minimal amount to return it, ask if they could refund it for you. If they get uppity about that then you will know you made a mistake going to the trouble of returning it.

Personally I would probably put it away for a while and see if they come looking for it. It is just as easy for them to try and reach you or anyone else that might have bought from them to see if you found anything extra in the box.

My brain plays tricks on me and always goes to dilemmas presented in films like The Butterfly Effect in scenarios like these.

Anyone getting this drift or am I just tripping? — Posty McPostface

Pass the weed and I'll tell you if I feel the same way.

I was giving an example of the division of labour and how it creates menial tasks. — Andrew4Handel

Labor is divided because there are menial tasks, if all jobs were equal then there would be no need to divide the labor force.

I was giving an example of the division of labour and how it creates menial tasks. — Andrew4Handel

Labour is divided because there are menial tasks, if all jobs were equal then there would be no need to divide the labor force.

*Shakes Sapientia vigorously to remove the evil spirits * — Baden

That just ain't gonna work, try holy water or fire.

Just a couple of thoughts.

If someone asked you if the ring they had found in a box of junk you just sold to them is yours, what would you say?
If you were hard pressed for money you might say yes even if you had no idea who the ring belonged to.
The person you bought the box from might not have known it was there when he found it at another yard sale.

Is the ring really valuable, if it is the a local jeweler might recognize it. If not, is it worth the trouble to find the owner. Not all diamonds are not all valuable, and some things that look like diamonds are not.

If you are going to return it, at least make sure it goes to the rightful owner. They should be able to give a proper description of it and maybe even draw it for you. A photo of someone wearing it it would be better. You could just tell them that you found a little box containing something without mentioning its possible monetary value. Maybe show them a picture of the box. If they can prove it is their ring, give it to them.

If they have no idea what is in the box or who it belongs to, then I doubt anyone would complain about you turning it into the police or even keeping it.

There is a local buying and selling farcebook page where I live, people often post photos of things lost and found on it, maybe there is one where you live.

Why is a religion so good at commanding people to behave a certain way — Posty McPostface

Because it uses the boogeymen man to scare the bejeezus out of people so that the toe the line.

Fairly expensive, but if you want to go in a blaze of glory, I think this size might be right. — Bitter Crank

220 bloody feet long!! I think I need one about 200 feet shorter. And the price is about 5 zeros too long as well.

I have heard that if you use liquid oxygen as a charcoal starter and light it with a very very very long match that the result is incandescent. So, get some liquid O, use that instead of gasoline on your funeral pyre, and the flash will be truly magnificent. — Bitter Crank

That might not be a good idea. But I do have several oxygen and acetylene bottles I could get filled and used them to get the party going. Got to think about that.

But anyway, I think I will get back to that later. I hope I have a few more years to go. Being a very healthy 65 I think that I could quite easily get to a cool 110. So I'm just gonna sleep on the problem for now. :cool:

BUT Vikings didn't use gasoline in their funeral pyres. — Bitter Crank

Awe shucks, and I had my dreams of being a true viking. Being blonde and blue eyed meant so much to me.

OK, so plan B. My dead hand will drop a stone to cause a spark that will light up the tinder that will start the fire. No that wont work, it might be raining.
Plan C. I will pay the next door neighbor to light it up when the light goes off. No, that wont work. He smokes. Murphy's law says that there is never a match available when you need one.

Bollocks to it, I'm a modern viking and I have gasoline, or maybe enough pig fat to do the job.

For a livelier physical demise, plan on dying in an area with lots of large scavengers (hyenas, vultures, beetles, etc.). The flora and fauna will have your body taken care of in just hours or days, at most. — Bitter Crank

Not a bad idea, around here it would be hours. The dog killed a possum the other night, there was not enough to bury a couple of hours later. And that was just the ants.

The deadman's switch will open a valve from a large tank of caustic potassium hydroxide which will dissolve your fatty/protein body leaving only bony material. It takes... less than a day. It's 72% more energy efficient than the bonfire approach. — Bitter Crank

No, then I have to think about the disposal of that crap. What the hell can anyone do with a bunch of used caustic potassium hydroxide?

I found this and thought it was sort of funny

http://whatculture.com/science/10-ways-to-dispose-of-a-dead-body-if-you-really-needed-to

until I read the pages that followed.

I have heard about the quick freeze method, they put you into something, I think it is liquid nitrogen, and then drop you so that you turn into a million pieces. When it is dry it is a fine powder you have become. They then can use you as fertilizer for a tree or something. Sounds nice, but expensive.

So well maybe I'll go for a burning barge and sea burial(but I want the gasoline). Now where the fuck can I find a cheap barge?

First of all.

I started school on Monday — ArguingWAristotleTiff

WAY TO GO GIRL, get out there and kick ass.

Do you really believe that someone looking for help with their homework is "cheating"? Because if you do than maybe others will think that about me when I ask for help... :yikes: — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I had no idea that Baden had been a teacher, I might of been able to get some ideas from him if I had.
I agree with him on this, getting help and getting someone to do the work are two completely different things.
One of my favorite topics( I am teaching computer class right now) is EXCEL. Many students really have no idea what to do even after receiving class for a couple of years, What I always look for in any of the work they present is the intention of getting the job done. Wrong formulas do not usually reduce the score greatly if you can see where they made the mistakes, but any old formula that has nothing to do with the work will get a zero. Excel is also one of the easiest programs to cheat in, a sideways glance will get you a formula from the next persons screen, so the teacher has to have an idea of the students abilities. I have tricks to stop this happening too much but I still see a D student coming up with an A answer occasionally.

In a classwork assignment a few weeks ago there was a shuffling of notebooks all around the lab and a silence that was scary. Someone had worked out a way to solve the problem they were working on and they were passing it around. When they got the results they were pissed of at someone because he had given the wrong answer and they had all copied it. Only one in four had they same problem but all had the same answer. I could not stop laughing while reviewing.

as a teacher, what is your opinion about a Homework section? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

It might be a good idea, but as Baden says it might result in us getting an increasing flow of drive-by slackers here.

What might work is a section where students can be honest while getting help with their homework. Many students do need help, but the problem is that they are difficult to distinguish from the ones that are just being lazy.
If they explain truthfully why they need help, lack of understanding the question or the topic, they cannot find information and so on, someone might offer to help.
But I think that they should be obliged to at least explain what they do understand before asking for help with the rest. That way it would be possible to see whether they have made a reasonable effort on their own.

If it is made clear that help is offered on a voluntary basis(if someone has the time and knowledge) and that it is not in any way guaranteed to be correct then it should put off the surge of lazies.

Personally I don't think that flat out refusing to help growing minds would be good for anyone, and the forum might have better future members as a result of the help provided.

We could also start a discussion in the ethics section called "Is it ok to help someone cheat." — Hanover

College students cheating, well I never. :gasp:

Who'd have thought it possible? :worry:

Nothing is a concept. Concepts require definition. — praxis

Concepts require explications, this is done using words. Words need definitions.

Nothing is the absence of anything, even a definition. — unic0rnio

Nothing is the absence of everything. That is the closest you will get to defining it.

As you seem to resent humor, this is said not for you, but for others' possible greater clarity on and appreciation of the value of Humor, the approximate opposite of the sin of DEADLY SERIOUSNESS or DOURNESS. — Daorley Downy

So that proves it, you don't know everything. I have no resentment of humor, I actually love it.

I found these three sentences spread separately on a piece of A4 paper near The National Art School in Sydney:

1. “What does the hairdresser see between mirrors?” — Thomas Stevenson

The customer's side views. If you are going to draw perspective is important.

“Is the dot inside the circle the dot outside the sphere?”. — Thomas Stevenson

The difference between 2D and 3D drawing. A good artist will make a ball with a spot on it appear to be a ball with a spot on it, not just a circle with a spot in it.

“When the pieces stop moving, the witness goes blind.” — Thomas Stevenson

Drawings, paintings, even statues need to show action to make them realistic. There is a lot of difference between the realness of a painting of a potted plant sitting on a table and a plant in a garden that has people and life around it.

Ran out of philosophical jokes so here is a political one about the president. Take your pick which one.

A terrorist attack kills a whole bunch of world leaders and they all end up in hell.

One of the aides tells his president that he has found an elevator that, for a fee, will allow them to go home for a while to see what is happening. All the presidents and prime ministers run to make a line.

A few Europeans get to go first and all are told they will have to pay E.1,000,000 each.
A few African and Asian representatives haggle a deal so that they can pay in dollars, 1.5 each.

Then the president steps up and asks how much he will be charged. To his and everyone else's suprise he is handed a check for half a million dollars.

When he asked why he had been given this he was told, "Shit man you have no idea how hard it is to get people down into the sub-levels, so we pay them to go".

Basically, IF YOU CAN TAKE ME without being sure you need to fire me off somehow to another planet, MY HAT WILL BE OFF TO YOU.

I'm a comedian too, — Daorley Downy

So we should just take this as a joke?

And to sweeten the mouth after a political discussion

https://philosophersguild.com/collections/trump/products/impeachmints

And to make sure that you don't contaminate yourselves with the bullshit wash your hands well with

https://philosophersguild.com/collections/trump/products/trumps-small-hand-soap

Have fun folks. :wink:

Trump is stupid.
If he actually ever owned any Elton John records he would not be breaking them.
He would leave them as an inheritance for his grand children. By the time they grow up they will be worth more than anything else he will have left to leave them.

Yeah I know that is not what he was talking about but it was just the way he babbled it. "I've broken a lot of Elton John records"

I don't think hypocrisy nails the issue on the head adequately enough.. — Posty McPostface

Sanctimoniousness, the quality of being hypocritically devout.

Unctuousness, smug self-serving earnestness

These comes to mind, but I think they still are a long way short of fitting the need.

I want to say it's willful ignorance, but that's not right either... — Posty McPostface

There is nothing ignorant about these people, a lot of them are highly educated people that know and understand the difference between good and bad as their holy book explains it.

They just think that they are better than the rest of us. How long did it take the church to decide to give mass in the native language of the country and not Latin? Just one of their many merry tricks to show their superiority over the common man.

An extreme view, you say? — Bitter Crank

Naw, me thinks you and me have about the same opinion of the human animal. If the universe is lucky, maybe a new improved model will show up in another 100,000 years or so.

but sure -- laugh at religion. All of them. Often. Loudly. — Bitter Crank

That's what I say. They deserve it.

If it's the Catholic priest, be sure to hide all the liquor

Now if the Baptist minister stops by" and here he turns to his young son, "you get up on mommy's lap and you stay there. — Bitter Crank

From what I remember of my time in the south and what a lot of the news seems to be confirming, I think you have it backwards. Them ol' southern baptists loved their moonshine behind the Sunday school building, and the priests loved the choir boys behind the alter.