Man, TranscendedRealms seems to really think he can change the world with his thoughts on life. — CasKev

Lots of people have already done that, but most of them had something to say that people wanted to listen to. Like Hitler or Martin Luther.

These passages from Leviticus 16 and Leviticus 23 are pretty straightforward about Yom Kippur. — schopenhauer1

But the thing is mate that you and me just don't know how to interpret them. They are full of hidden meanings that god put there so that we poor humans can spend our whole lives trying to figure out what the hell they mean.

Of course you are right, they are pretty straight forward. There is absolutely no reason to think that there should be any meanings other than those that are clearly visible. And most of the bible is just like that plain and clear.

You don't have to feel empathy with the sentiment to know that it is intended, and how it is conveyed by the words. — Janus

That is so true, it means exactly what it says, "walk humbly with God"

Of course you would know what those words mean (if you did). The revelatory aspect of texts which may be experienced in the (all the more so by informed) act of interpretation consists in gaining insight into what is intended by the text; into what it is, in an overall sense, trying to convey. — Janus

So let's try something. interpret this for me. What is the special hidden meaning here

1 Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12 When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13 But the angel said to him: “Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to call him John. 14 He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15 for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before he is born. 16 He will bring back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. 17 And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”

Because no text is understood just by reading the words. — Agustino

So if I write "The cat is black and was a year old when she had kittens" you would not be able to understand it just by reading the text?

Of course your brain would understand it once it was processed. It means exactly what it says.

So when it says in the bible that "Mary was a virgin when she had a baby" your brain would process it and it too would mean exactly what it says.

So why should everything else be a mystery that has to be unraveled before it can be understood?

So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden since the foundation of the world.” — Matthew 13:35

parable; a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”
11He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
And he goes on to explain.

Keeping things in context helps understanding.

Jesus was talking about things that ordinary everyday people might not understand. Complicated explanations would not have worked so he used parables to place the ideas into to day to day situations that the people could relate to.

But did he ever transmit any super secret information through them? He used parables to make sure that nothing was hidden.

Science is a tool, technology is what we use that tool for, philosophy is the thinking that guides them along the path.

"The truth is that all Christians have believed this to be so, so whether it's actually true, it certainly isn't "only my opinion"

I was not addressing the rest of the christians or I would have included them as well. And as far as I know there is no such thing as a group opinion, only a group with the same opinion.

"You think this understanding what it says is a straightforward matter that involves just reading the words."

And just how do you know this not to be true? Do you have access to some secret bible readers manual that the rest of us have been denied a chance to see? Just where does it say anywhere that the bible has hidden things or ways to interpret the writings of long dead people?

"That's your non-expert opinion ;) - to adopt one of your favorite tropes X-)"

Have I ever actually ever used that phrase? Don't think so, but I do like it.

Please name one person that has had the right to call him/herself an expert on the meaning of the bible. But let's apply a couple of conditions that could be applied to anyone trying to verify a work of art.

1. Has had direct access no the original writings of the people that are supposed to have written the bible. Including non biblical writings to act as benchmarks for style and so on.
2. Has been allowed to review the writings that were either removed from the bible or are contemporary, and of similar content to it and not allowed to be included.
3. Has been allowed to review historical, psychological, personality, educational records of those writers to try to deduce veracity of their existence and competence to write the book of a god.
4. Someone that has not been trained by someone that does not have the above.

Primordial soup

Blame that one on Heinz.

I just automatically came up with that quip after reading BitterCranks post.

Nothing to do with the price of matzo ball soup

I am have problems with the quote function again. Last time after a couple of days it went away, but now it seems as though it is here to stay.

I can select the text and the quote button appears but in the right hand upper corner. When I click on it nothings happens.

Anyone got any ideas how to fix it?

Ahh, the chutzpah, the effrontery, the gall, the delusions of grandeur...

Don't try to tell me that you could not at least keep the oceans clean if you had his "POWERS". Anyone could.

And I am not delusional, I just know how fucking great I am. >:)

Makes you want to read Joseph Campbell!

Is he the soup guy? X-)

Parts of Genesis, Exodus, and Numbers were probably the oldest parts. They may have been written by Israelite and Judahite priests stitching together both region's traditions

Several African origins myths are almost exactly like genesis, and hundreds if not thousands of years earlier.

However, the Biblical text is revelatory - its aim is to reveal many things that are hidden.

This is only your opinion of what the bible is, how you interpret it. Personally I think the bible means to say exactly what it says and anything you add to it as "meaning" is actually a corruption of the original writing. Not that I actually believe a word of it.

People that try to find hidden meaning in things can be found by the dozen in museums, looking at the paintings of long dead artists and telling anyone that will listen what the paint was actually trying to express in the work. They have not got a bloody clue either.

Do you think you could do any better with no experience of the job?

The last bloody thing I would want would to be a god. But I would bet that given his supposed powers I could probably do better.

If it wasn't the valid word of God, then there wouldn't be any reason to struggle to get it right for 3,000 years.

If it was the valid word of some god, don't you think he would have made it absolutely obvious what he wanted from us and for us instead of letting a bunch of ignorant, illiterate barely out of monkey stage goons decide what it meant for him?

The funny thing about the bible is that the only people that even bother to discuss its meaning are the ones that believe it to be the word of god, and by doing so call into dispute its validity and his all-mightiness.
Who in his right mind would follow a god that could not even speak clearly enough so that his words would be completely and clearly understood. A god that leaves his followers in a daze about what he meant should be disqualified as a god for incompetence.

I was listening to an online radio yesterday, they played hours of music from '65 and '66.
I remembered my first days in New Orleans, late '65 when they played "Desolation Row" by Bob Dylan.
I was an almost 12 year old from England that had only ever seen a few people with dark skin, and most of them were Indians or Pakistanis. Lots of things came as a shock to me and in my ignorance / innocence I made some mistakes. Looking back, some were funny others not so.

There was a sign on a laundromat door "whites only". "Mom, we cannot wash my trousers here"

There was a separated coffee bar for colored people in the supermarket. "Why can't I have a coke?"

I stood up to let a lady sit down on a bus and she got scared and moved away from me. She was black.

Once I accepted and loved myself almost unconditionally

I like how you put the "almost" in there. I think that one has to put some conditions on loving oneself, other wise I would be happy to accept myself in any condition even if I know it is wrong for me.
I have to be happy with myself before I can love me.

Just mix in something about politics and race and you'll get a nice FB discussion going.

There is no way giving this kind of advise is going to get you the last word. :-|

Do you think it is a necessity to wish good for the person you love (unconditionally) to claim that you love that person?

But why would anyone not wish good for the person they love?
And yes, the unconditional part is bullshit, never can happen, is impossible for a sane person.

Each step would represent a boundary breach of the step before. — MikeL

Each level represents a boundary that has to be breached. The top level is where you get to be creative.

I don't really think these represent the boundary breaches I had in mind although the triangular shape is appropriate. — MikeL

If you look at this as a step up sort of process then it is as if you are breaking a boundary. You cannot do anything in the level above you if you have not completed the level below and the one you are on.

It seems as though you are going along the line of Maslow.

Talking about weather forecasting and me saying that some hurricanes are starting to go south.

Check out the track on this one.

https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/atlantic/2017/hurricane-jose

Are you watching the wrath of Mother Nature? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Oh yeah, she is the queen and she knows it. Don't no one screw around with her and expect to win.

I was shitting myself when Harvey passed here, some of these recent hurricanes have been known to turn south. That would have been another disaster for us.

That is what I hate about competitions, they only have one winner that is usually called the best.

A bunch of football teams spend all year playing against each other to win a championship, only one winner. So the rest are losers, second rate teams. And maybe the "best" team got there by making a mistake or getting lucky.

What do you think about trying to become the best? — 12paul123

Personally, I don't waste my time trying. Either what I do is the best that I can do or I will not bother doing it. I don't try to make myself into the best at anything.

Your nursery rhymes and song tidbits will not claim the Last Word - I will make sure of it! — CasKev

Gotcha covered on that,

Completion is not synonymous with perfection. — Samuel Lacrampe

So it is possible for something to be perfect even if it is incomplete?

Jesus died for our salvation. — Samuel Lacrampe

Not worked out too well yet though has it? When are we supposed to be saved?

Running water.

I accept your definition of 'quality', but reject your definition of a 'perfect being'. — Samuel Lacrampe

If we were talking about a car I would agree, but this is supposed to be a complete being, so I would guess he needs to have every single possible property. And it could not be a contradiction because after all he is a god, and gods are capable of being everything they want to be.

A perfect being is one that possesses all good qualities and no bad ones. — Samuel Lacrampe

Sending your only son to die is a good quality?
Letting "your favorite group of people" wonder around a dessert after being slaves for a long time is a good trait?
Letting some nitwit that is not nearly as powerful as you bully you into letting him tempt your creation into doing bad is a good quality?

And the list goes on and on.

I guess that you are not planning on having kids soon then.

? I can't make sense of your statement — Modern Conviviality

There is no answer to your claim that you are paying for someone else's sins. If you want to be religious, you just have to live with it.

Fessing up to a priest will get you saved for eternity, at least that is what they say. Believe that if it makes you happy.

This still does not answer the ethical problem of my being condemned on behalf of another. And my eternal need to be saved thereafter. — Modern Conviviality

There is no answer to that so just confess and suck up life like a man. That way you will be reborn when the time comes, maybe anyways.

I did and also ordered a container of Häagen-Dazs to make White Russians with instead of the cream. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I'll be there in a while to help you give it a warm welcome when it arrives. X-)

Well, I figured I would get the last word in before I head out for the weekend. Soccer tournament! Or football, for you British blokes! — CasKev

I'm British and I think that the whole soccer/football thing is a crock of shit.

22 full grown men running around a pieces of grass trying to kick a poor little ball to death. And when they actually manage to put the bloody thing in the box at the end of the field all those sweaty bodies start hugin and kissin each other and touchin each others arses.

No thanks.

Weakness and shyness are not qualities, are they? They are properties that are considered negative, like ugliness and laziness. The perfect being would not possess these. — Samuel Lacrampe

Weakness and shyness are not qualities.
Quality:
An essential and distinguishing attribute of something or someone
A characteristic property that defines the apparent individual nature of something

They are qualities because they help to define, explain or describe what things are like.

The fact that you consider them as negative attributes makes no difference they are still qualities.
And surely the perfect being would be a combination of ALL possible properties. A being that only held the quality of boldness would be flawed.

Are you REALLY going to risk denying me chocolate? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Hey lady, calm down. Eat a Snickers, they say they are good for removing grouchiness, relieving dramatic seizures and a whole bunch of other things.

Better yet, have 2. Hanover will pay for them.

Why was the philosophy forum so nice to lie in?

It had a high thread count! :D — CasKev

OK, now I think I am going to vote for the thumb down button.