Are you watching the wrath of Mother Nature? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Oh yeah, she is the queen and she knows it. Don't no one screw around with her and expect to win.

I was shitting myself when Harvey passed here, some of these recent hurricanes have been known to turn south. That would have been another disaster for us.

That is what I hate about competitions, they only have one winner that is usually called the best.

A bunch of football teams spend all year playing against each other to win a championship, only one winner. So the rest are losers, second rate teams. And maybe the "best" team got there by making a mistake or getting lucky.

What do you think about trying to become the best? — 12paul123

Personally, I don't waste my time trying. Either what I do is the best that I can do or I will not bother doing it. I don't try to make myself into the best at anything.

Your nursery rhymes and song tidbits will not claim the Last Word - I will make sure of it! — CasKev

Gotcha covered on that,

Completion is not synonymous with perfection. — Samuel Lacrampe

So it is possible for something to be perfect even if it is incomplete?

Jesus died for our salvation. — Samuel Lacrampe

Not worked out too well yet though has it? When are we supposed to be saved?

Running water.

I accept your definition of 'quality', but reject your definition of a 'perfect being'. — Samuel Lacrampe

If we were talking about a car I would agree, but this is supposed to be a complete being, so I would guess he needs to have every single possible property. And it could not be a contradiction because after all he is a god, and gods are capable of being everything they want to be.

A perfect being is one that possesses all good qualities and no bad ones. — Samuel Lacrampe

Sending your only son to die is a good quality?
Letting "your favorite group of people" wonder around a dessert after being slaves for a long time is a good trait?
Letting some nitwit that is not nearly as powerful as you bully you into letting him tempt your creation into doing bad is a good quality?

And the list goes on and on.

I guess that you are not planning on having kids soon then.

? I can't make sense of your statement — Modern Conviviality

There is no answer to your claim that you are paying for someone else's sins. If you want to be religious, you just have to live with it.

Fessing up to a priest will get you saved for eternity, at least that is what they say. Believe that if it makes you happy.

This still does not answer the ethical problem of my being condemned on behalf of another. And my eternal need to be saved thereafter. — Modern Conviviality

There is no answer to that so just confess and suck up life like a man. That way you will be reborn when the time comes, maybe anyways.

I did and also ordered a container of Häagen-Dazs to make White Russians with instead of the cream. — ArguingWAristotleTiff

I'll be there in a while to help you give it a warm welcome when it arrives. X-)

Well, I figured I would get the last word in before I head out for the weekend. Soccer tournament! Or football, for you British blokes! — CasKev

I'm British and I think that the whole soccer/football thing is a crock of shit.

22 full grown men running around a pieces of grass trying to kick a poor little ball to death. And when they actually manage to put the bloody thing in the box at the end of the field all those sweaty bodies start hugin and kissin each other and touchin each others arses.

No thanks.

Weakness and shyness are not qualities, are they? They are properties that are considered negative, like ugliness and laziness. The perfect being would not possess these. — Samuel Lacrampe

Weakness and shyness are not qualities.
Quality:
An essential and distinguishing attribute of something or someone
A characteristic property that defines the apparent individual nature of something

They are qualities because they help to define, explain or describe what things are like.

The fact that you consider them as negative attributes makes no difference they are still qualities.
And surely the perfect being would be a combination of ALL possible properties. A being that only held the quality of boldness would be flawed.

Are you REALLY going to risk denying me chocolate? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

Hey lady, calm down. Eat a Snickers, they say they are good for removing grouchiness, relieving dramatic seizures and a whole bunch of other things.

Better yet, have 2. Hanover will pay for them.

Why was the philosophy forum so nice to lie in?

It had a high thread count! :D — CasKev

OK, now I think I am going to vote for the thumb down button.

Because Eternal Death is the prospect that renders EVERY SINGLe lived experience you ever experienced - your every magical, miraculous moment of awareness in lived phenomenal consciousness your every: CONVIVIALITY, every love, every sadness, every joy, every triumph, every poignancy, every tenderness, every pang of the bitter-sweet, every sorrow, every remorse, every striving, every unguarded smile, every soaring of , and song in, your heart, every fervent hope, every act of kindness or charity you have offered, or gift of compassion you have received, every noble dream, every cherished thing or moment, ALL for naught. — John Gould

All for naught. Even if that is true, so what?
But how could it even be for nothing? All of those things make up MY life. When I go, what good are they to anyone else?
It is not the memories of the things that has value, it was actually doing them. I had those experiences myself, no one has any right to them except me. So when I die I will take them into the big dark void of emptiness, the stone- cold, perfect stillness of oblivion, the nothingness with me. And the rest can keep their own lives.

YOU , and your own life on this Earth- the lives of your wife, your children, those you love and care for; are you and they nothing more, ultimately, than meaningless, worthless, purposeless biological automata wandering aimlessly here and there - Lumps of organic matter whose destiny and sole raisin d'etre was always to be no more , in the end, than fodder for the grave worm? — John Gould

Did you not read in the bible the bit about ashes to ashes, dust to dust?

This thread almost made it to the fourth page. Someone might try to declare themselves a winner if that were to happen! — CasKev

This quote is on page 19 according to my counter?

So I had better call myself the winner and the rest of you can just piss of and play around in another thread.

You could start by looking at yourself critically.
What am I good at?
What am I good for?
What pleases me?
What would I like to end my life as?
What do I want to avoid?

Questioning yourself will help more than questioning others.

But to condemn the human race collectively (original sin) and then swoop in later to save the human race is not glorious, its illogical. — Modern Conviviality

Amen to that brother. >:)

Get an arrow and "this way up" on your ass.

God revealed God's humanity , for instance, in the incarnation , life, teaching and resurrection ( as Christ) of Jesus of Nazareth — John Gould

OK, so now all that is left is to prove that Jesus existed and that he was god's son. That should not be a big problem.

I'll check back later for your reply.

For one thing, we can know what he is not: If he is perfect, then he has no properties that are imperfect (weak, shy, ...). — Samuel Lacrampe

If he were perfect, would he not have all of these qualities? How can a perfect being be missing qualities?

Posty McPostface is a Greedy Gus. There. I said it, it can't be unsaid, and it is what it is. He wanted the Last Word, but he can't have it! — CasKev

Yeah, he is tricky like that isn't he.

But what is not shall not be.

The small sticks came from the branches that came from the trees that came from the ground that came from the earth that came from the sky that came from the cat that came from the book that came from the man with the mangled hand who hung out in the garden waiting for the cart full of the weeds that had been pulled and were on their way to the simmering pile by the brook where no man dare tread.

That's where the sticks came from.

Duh. — Hanover

Hey OK, I only asked. Don't get your knickers in a twist.

Ahh but is it a problem if she took me in out of pity? After all, out of all men in the world, she took pity on me and on no other! That is great! :D — Agustino

If you can live with that,who am I to say anything about it.

Years ago when coaching 8 year olds in soccer, Keith kept throwing small sticks at Anthony, — Hanover

Ok, I have just one little question.

If you were training them to play soccer, I presume that you were on a soccer field.
If you were on a soccer field, where the hell did the little brat get the small sticks from?

Well let's see... intelligent, independent, compassionate, — Agustino

If she had those qualities, how could you ever be sure she did not take you in out of pity?

at a different level where you don't see anything fruitful in carrying on the investigation. — TheMadFool

I decide many years ago that I would search for the things I needed in my life, gods were never on the list of useful things to look out for along the way.

Shouldn't we try? — TheMadFool

I like gardening as a hobby, you get better return on time spent.

Marshmallows anyone? X-)

There are no good women nor men, there are no bad women or men.

But there are a hell of a lot of incompatible people out there.

Had God done this, man whom He created in His own image would have been reduced to nothing more than a mindless, (albeit righteous and well-behaved) puppet and He a mere puppet master predictably pulling the strings that would keep his toy on the straight and narrow , safe from harm's way. — John Gould

Which is what he actually created. Where did he get the idea to give them free will?

Whether or not He chooses to pick up His iPhone when yo call Him and PERSONALLY talk to you is purely a matter for Him to decide, not you. — John Gould

That is basically what the Hollywood saying means.

that all I ( and they ) had waiting in store was the grim reality of eternal death; of death, that is ,as FINIS ( where dead is dead). — John Gould

Why is it that I have no fear of death? I am over 60, I fully realize that the biggest part of my life is probable over and that the rest is going to be down hill. It saddens me maybe that I won't be around to witness so many things, but it does not scare me.

Why are you scared of it?

Omnibenevolence, omnipotence and omniscience are universally accepted as attributes of God. — TheMadFool

But how can you keep saying this when god himself said he cannot even be imagined by humans? If we cannot even imagine his properties then you cannot write about them.

It pisses me off when people ask how I can be a moral person if I don't believe in god.
Just as bad is when they ask if you believe in the devil when they find out you don't believe in god.

But while there is no direct path from man to God, there IS a path from God to man... — John Gould

So that is something like the Hollywood saying, "Don't call us, we'll call you".

God, in graciously condescending to save a fallen and lost humanity through revelation of Himself is truly "Sir2u". — JohnGould

Since it was his fault in the beginning he should help clean up the mess. If he was perfect and made humans in his image then someone screwed up somewhere. I guess that would be a good enough reason for not wanting to be seen though.

To be absolutely honest, I read the book several times and all I see in it is a rather twisted sales pitch. 2000 year old propaganda meant to scare the shit out of people to make them behave in a certain way. Cocacola spend millions to convert people into believers and have not had half of the success of religions. I wonder what it will be like when people start going to war over brands.

It sounds that way. But we can come to some agreement on what perfection entails e.g. omnibenevolence, omnipotence and omniscience aren't controversial. — TheMadFool

If these are not controversial I don't know what is.
For something to be perfect, should it not include these qualities? How is something that is not omnipotent going to be perfect, a perfect being has to be capable of doing anything.

However, we may have our own conception of perfection, in a relative sense. — TheMadFool

So you admit them the idea of your god being perfect is only relative to your own conception of perfection?

Yeah, but they didn't teach me how to negotiate with cats. I'm talking literal cats here, so keep your mind out of the gutter. — Hanover

Bloody useless degree if they didn't give cat language classes. :D

I am sorry to disappoint you but the answer is an emphatic "No, I cannot !". — John Gould

That is not in the least disappointing, I expected it.

forever hidden from, humanity. — John Gould

Could there be some reason for this? Or is that unknowable as well?

When dealing with other beings we quite often infer characteristics from their behavior, is it not possible to do this for your god?

But there are lots and lots of buttons that do their job properly ! Iam only interested in nature of THE perfect button and apart from doing its job properly what physical properties ( for example) it possesses in terms of, say its size, shape, colour, mass, density,what substance it is made from( wood , metal, plastic?), how many thread holes it would possess, or is it the case that the perfect button is one that is not sewn onto a shirt or trousers with cotton, etc?) and so on? — John Gould

And maybe you could provide a similar list of qualities for your god.