I was introduced to the concept of self-ownership by Stefan Molyneux. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ownership . I guess the reason people say they own themselves rather than they are themselves is because the idea of self-ownership is used to support libertarianism/anarchy.

I believe that we do not own our children. I don't want to get too far away from my original question of the morality of the pull-out method vs. condoms.

Why?

I believe you can do what you want with your possessions as long as you don't aggress upon others.

I believe that self-harm and self-destructive behavior is moral since you own yourself, and you can do what you want with your possessions. Given this assumption, would you still say that using the pull-out method instead of condoms is immoral?

I said I tentatively accepted that your analogy proved my point wrong. Now can you answer my questions? How am I special pleading still?

I'm not trying to use special pleading. I'll tentatively accept that casual sex is moral since driving cars is moral. Now will you answer my questions regarding the pull-out method vs. condoms?

I think having kids and driving cars can be moral while still risking those things. Does that mean having casual sex while using some kind of contraception is moral? I like using the pull-out method because condoms reduce sensitivity. Is my method moral even though it increases the risk of unwanted pregnancy in exchange for increased pleasure?

Also, what did you mean by "Hey, Schop"? Did Schopenhauer argue that having children is immoral because they can't consent to being born?

Moral sex would be sex for the purpose of procreation in which both parents are good people with shared values. Gay sex would also be moral. Casual sex in which the probability of pregnancy was 0% could also be moral. However, I believe the vast majority of casual sex has a probability of pregnancy higher than 0.

T Clark, when I say "let's assume X" I am trying to shift the discussion away from secondary debates like the morality of abortion so that I can reach a meaningful conclusion for people who do believe abortion is murder (such as myself). If you are going to bog me down in whether or not abortion is murder, then I think you are not philosophically minded, and this thread is not for you.

Like I said in the first sentence, there is no 100% proven effective method of contraception other than abstinence. Therefore, all sex risks pregnancy.

Would a good mother risk getting impregnated by a guy she doesn't know well just for pleasure? Even if there is a 0.01% of pregnancy, would a good mother risk an unwanted pregnancy just for pleasure? I argue no. That's why I assume that no good mother has casual sex.

I know my mother had casual sex. I never said she was a good mother. I grew up to be a violent criminal.