Turning point...

I am grateful that a few more families will have their loved one with them again and can stop looking out the front door to see if by some hopeful chance, that they would see their loved one walking home. :heart: :flower:

I now suspect that this is what ArguingWAristotleTiff was trying to tell me. Perhaps I now understand. — Banno

I wish we could talk to one another about what is going on but this thread is not hospitable enough to even begin to "talk".

Thank you kindly.

Kinda makes you realize the sanctity of bringing a life to the world and the immensity of the work to undertake. — BrianW

Absolutely on both points. :heart:

@BrianW
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
We are glad you are here

@BrianW
I love Kahlil Gibran's writings. The one about Children is a writing I print and frame on top of a Photo Keepsake box and give as a gift at every baby shower and Christening I am asked to attend.

When I read it as a young mother, it began a time ticking, knowing that I was their only influence for such a short period of time in their lives, as my Mom was with me. It was at that moment that I knew I was experiencing an awesome Motherhood and needed to stop, take a look around and realize that those were the "good times" that people so often speak of.

Now as a Mom of two gentlemen in their early adulthood, I recognize the full impact of Kahil's words and try to savor every moment I am blessed to be with them. And still today, I take the time to stop and look around, for these too are the "good times".

@frank A portion of your first reply to this thread has been posted on The Philosophy Forum Facebook page. Congratulations and Thank you for your contribution!

I won't go into that here, because that's a complicated issue (check Moliere's thread on lying to oneself), and it's not the issue here. The issue is being deceitful toward someone else, lying. And the point is that you can be true to yourself and still be lying to others. This stems from a selfish disposition. — Metaphysician Undercover

Thank you for referring me to @Moliere s thread on Lying and in reading over Moliere's last two days posts on lying seems to support my theory

We tell someone a falsehood we know to be true. Maybe there's a motivational component to this but that seems to be the bare minimum of what a lie is.

I don't think I'd say that believing such and such without rational justification counts as a lie. It may be irrational, but without justification we do not know, and if we do not know then we couldn't be telling ourselves a known falsehood. — Moliere

I was talking about knowing if thy self is telling a false hood, if we don't know it is a false hood, is that knowingly telling a lie?

Well, more of less yes... this is an important point in regards to reasoning about ethics. Just because someone does something terrible, it doesn't mean other people should be let of the hook for terrible behaviour.

If someone is behaving poorly, pointing out the behaviour other shouldn't be used to excuse it. Someone else's wrong doesn't make another's right. — TheWillowOfDarkness

Thank you Willow, I do understand that point in regards to ethics and to read my post you would think I don't have a good grasp on the concept, so I understand your response.

@Banno and I have been on this discussion of asylum seekers for years now (both on the forum and off) about how Australia handles it and how America handles it.
The temporary parallels are horrifying, I know it, he knows it and is somehow getting some satisfaction out of making sure I am aware of the comparison. I have tried to express this correlation in this thread without it coming across as Australia's system is worse than what is happening here in the USA but length of detainment and the duration of time this Zero Tolerance policy are VASTLY different and that is "A" factor.

By considering the opinions of others.

Oh... we're talking about Trump. That's not going to happen. — Banno

The words you delivered to me above are rich for so many reasons, dear friend.
My tongue with you is bloody from my biting it, when you offer the USA advice that we should follow but it is not one that you have been able to abide by any better yourself.

Do as I say, not as I do eh?

Anti-Trump is not anti-American, it's pro-American as far as I'm concerned especially after recent events — Baden

Recent events have blurred the line between the two.

Do you think your prison system could be improved? If so, how? — Baden

Our prison system would be improved if it was taken out of the hands of private- for profit companies managing the incarceration system. Why?

A for profit prison system is detrimental to both the incarcerated citizen and the state that has them incarcerated. For those incarcerated, there is no incentive for the company managing them to acknowledge good behavior because a full jail cell is a paying jail cell. When there is a need for more jail cells, more prisons are built, rather then trying to rehabilitate those incarcerated.

A for profit prison system encourages those who police the state to lean on illegal means of filling those cells by the use of profiling, discrimination and fabrication of facts to support their continued business.

It's not us vs. them. — Baden

Have you been reading the posts of the last two weeks? Anti Americanism is running and is being encouraged to run rampant.

By the way Hanover, you know the more you show how much you hate us doing the superior European thing, the more I'm going to do it? You do know that, right? :hearts: — Baden

Thank you for the unintended enlightenment. :heart:

True to yourself means adhering to your principles whether they are selfish and deceitful principles or not. — Metaphysician Undercover

How would you determine if you were being deceitful with yourself? :confused:

And Obama suggesting that he will have "more flexibility" in his second term was?

By now you'd think it would've passed all this partisanship given the available evidence. — Benkei

The USA has been meddling in any other country we can break into on a cyber level. I know this for a fact as I am watching the NEXT generation learn how to act and react on cyber attacks on our country of all natures. The USA is just as talented at cyber attacks as any other country and to suggest that we can't or that we don't is an absurd concept.

Non-sequitur and I don't know or care for sure — Baden

If you really don't care then why are you arguing it and calling it fact?

Forum discussions have a peculiarity in that the form is private, while the arena is public. We tend to argue in an informal way without a real arbiter or even preset rules, like arguments are done in the private sphere — Ying

Ying, I find what you have pointed out to be profound and a difference I was likely missing. Maybe it is because I wear my heart on my sleeve that I often lose sight of the idea that what I am expressing in the public realm is my private/personal position. But because of this I allow myself to be impacted personally and that is not always a healthy impact.

Maybe I need to listen more to Aristotle rather than arguing with him. :chin:

The opposite Tiff. That's what the thread said. I closed it — StreetlightX

StreetlightX, Thank you for your response as I was feeling quite the opposite was happening.

Hey now, the thread spoke of Trump's 'intellectual primitivism' and his 'truths' as being 'held by the herd'. This of course is fake news and any self-respecting non-lefty would of course agree — StreetlightX

Are you suggesting that anyone that supports our President is part of the "herd"?

This forum does lean left. It doesn't really need to be balanced in order to offer a place to discuss philosophy. — frank

Balance is not necessary to offer a place to discuss philosophy but it shouldn't be a bashing/pile on creating a mob mentality either.

@Sam Walker
Hi Sam! Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Europe through my child's eyes



If anyone can tell me what the church looking building is? I believe it is France but I could be wrong.


France's street shortly before winning the World Cup.


I am not really convinced that this is not a California beach...

Could you please quote my opinion of Strzok's affair? :brow:

Oh no, don't you see a problem with this sort of "honesty"? If the person prioritizes self-interest, wants to take advantage of others, and is deceitful, and says what that individual feels like saying, how can this be honesty? The person is acting deceitfully because that's what the person feels is the best tactic, yet you call it "honesty" because the person is "true to how he feels". I don't think so. — Metaphysician Undercover

I don't agree with you in that when someone is acting honestly and true to their self, that they are can also be actively being deceitful and taking advantage of others. If a person is being honest and true with their words AND it turns out that they were incorrect does not make them deceitful, it just makes them wrong.


Do I think he would knowingly say something that he knows is not true? Nah, I don't think it is his style and for what purpose would he lie? — ArguingWAristotleTiff

How well do you think you know president Trump? — Metaphysician Undercover

I would imagine I know Trump as well as the rest of America does.

I have seen evidence which demonstrates that he does lie. Most people lie now and then, for one reason or another. I don't know him well enough to say with any conviction for what purpose he would lie. However, he seems to me like the type of person whom if he wants something he will do what he thinks is necessary to make that desire come true, and that might include lying. — Metaphysician Undercover

Please post the evidence you have that Trump has out and out lied and not merged or changed his beliefs and expressed them after that change. One is a lie when being said and the other can honestly be how they feel at the time before an evolution on their perspective.

How would you define "honest" here, true to how he feels at that moment? If he feels like this is the right thing to say, whether or not it's true, he'll say it. And this is being honest? — Metaphysician Undercover

You ask a very interesting question about honesty. I do define him being honest, as being true to how he feels at that moment and I have no doubt that he will speak it and that is being as honest with ones self as one can be. Do I think he would knowingly say something that he knows is not true? Nah, I don't think it is his style and for what purpose would he lie?

When you try to do it on your own you tend to mess it up, Tiff. That's just a fact, most recently illustrated by Iraq. So, instead of being proud about messing things up as you seem to be, you ought to show a little humility about it. Then maybe we can come together under a common banner and make things work. It won't happen though until you can face up to reality and drop the fantasy that your interventions have been heroic in recent history — Baden

Baden, I am not sure why you continue to bash my faith in my country, which is a collective of it's citizens, when I have told you that the USA should NOT step in to help anymore. Not only is it not appreciated but we as the USA are resented as a result of it. :angry:

Your attitude towards the American government is a perfect example of the quote: :100:
No good deed goes unpunished.

Irelands up! :up: You might want to use the batters cage to warm up for the "NEXT" catastrophe because, IF and when America is called, we have been told from the world over, not to answer. :zip:

That Trump "tells it like it is", is chicanery in the same vein as Bush being the guy you'd "rather have a beer with", or Reagan being sooo charismatic and funny. — Maw

If that is true Maw, then why such an uproar to everything Trump suggests? :chin:

So he could say things bluntly that past presidents would only express gently.
— ArguingWAristotleTiff

Like wut? (Direct quotes pls) — Maw

“It’s very sad when Germany makes a massive oil and gas deal with Russia where we’re supposed to be guarding against Russia, and Germany goes out and pays billions and billions of dollars a year to Russia,” -President Trump

"If President Obama had crossed his stated Red Line In The Sand, the Syrian disaster would have ended long ago! Animal Assad would have been history!" - President Trump

What's an example of a shit storm on the world's stage in the last 30 years that America solved (that it didn't create). — Maw

Like most shit storms, there was more than one cause and more than one solution.
The USA has lead the charge for world health crisis (Eboli and HIV), the USA set to arrive to help in world disasters such as Tsunamis and Earth Quakes. The USA is not only involved in military theaters despite your suggestions.

I'm not ignoring the responses to my reply, just on my phone until I return to my ranch tomorrow :eyes:

Besides, I think we ought to wean ourselves off relying on America and spend more on our own defense. Let you save money and go home. Everyone wins. — Baden

Add one more time in which you say the world doesn't need the USA's involvement. Like I have said so many times before: You don't have to ask US twice. Which is one of the main reasons I voted for Trump. So he could say things bluntly that past presidents would only express gently. We SHOULD pack up our troops from around the world and bring them home.
I tell you what : how about Ireland handle the "NEXT" shit storm that happens on the world stage and we Americans pass the popcorn around and play armchair warriors. Sound good? :up:

:heart: :heart: :heart:

Helsinki is a perfect background for the biggest covert operation/espionage success in history . :grin: — ssu

:starstruck: I was thinking about someone writing a novel and what an awesome name for a place holding this kind of meeting.

The US president has an independent voice and uses it. It's refreshing. — raza

Amen. It is crude at times, rude at times but always honest.about how he sees things at the time, even if that position changes. He is showing the under pinning of most he meets with. People either love him or hate him, there is no in between.

Oh and I vote yes. :razz:

In no specific order: all have had a profound effect on my life, many through sharing friendships as @jorndoe suggests.
@Mayor of Simpleton taught me family outside of born kin
@Tobias changed/taught me proportionality
@Benkei helped me compartmentalize 9/11
@Banno changed my view/ taught me that the physically disabled have sexual needs just like those who are not disabled.
@Hanover has taught me gentle truths through jest
@Postmodern Beatnik taught me how to put in a "stop gap" between reading /hearing an idea and me allowing an emotional reaction to be assigned to what I read/heard.
@unenlightened truly my mentor, my Sage, too many lessons to list. I will just call it life coaching. :heart:
@Sir2u has taught me to not take life so seriously and how to respect unknown lines in the sand.
@Bitter Crank taught me that life does cease for all of us no matter how much the other is loved and will be missed.
@Sapientia has taught me to be humble in expressing unpopular positions but also reminds me that there are hills I am willing to die on.

To Kamerynn, 180, Wosret and Mongrel :heart: you are significant threads in the tapastety that makes up my character even though your no longer in my daily life.

What I know about trade wars could fit in a thimble. Having said that: what I would like to know is what is unfair of having no tariffs?

I know that a few of you, my fellow 'thinkers', are aware that I am a recovering addict. I try in earnest to let people know that I am here for anyone who might need me themselves or someone they know, regardless if they are ready to get off the drug they are on or not.

I say that on this thread because of how deeply appreciative I am, as many drops of gratitude flow, filling up my cup to the point it overflows. :flower:

My point of gratitude is this: after slaying the Opiate/Oxycontin addiction of 2.5 years with an additional 2.5 years on Suboxone, my life's dedication has been to get Cannabis made available to patients who cannot have Opiates or don't want to touch Opiates.

So with a BIG shout out to Gov Andrew Cuomo of NY, to Thank you for taking a chance on us, on Cannabis, on a medicine that should be offered as fairly, legally and safely to patients who are also being offered Opiates.

I would also like to forecast an unintended consequence of this move: just like we are seeing a significant reduction (25%) in Opiate overdoses in states that have a Medical Cannabis program we will also see a reduction in the fatalities from Cancer. I am not for a moment suggesting to abandon the Western approach to treating Cancer. I am a firm believer in the Eastern approach (Holistic non invasive) and the Western approach (advanced science usually invasive) being able to be used in conjunction with each other. Together, hand in hand, we are going to beat this asshole named Cancer. :strong:

@Jake
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!