Let's be perfectly clear about all this: if there is backwardness in the Middle East, then the West, including Europeans, are equally to blame for what has been happening there. Let's not forget that it was the Europeans (and I include Americans in this) that tore down that actual politically backed regimes that represented progressive values in the Middle East, or decided to overthrow political regimes that were able to contain the subsequent results of colonialism, including Saddam Hussein's regime, Gaddafi, the arbitrary creation of the state of Israel, which constantly drives a wedge in the middle of Middle Eastern politics, their constant defense of Zionist power in the region, their fight against the only faction representing any form of hope in Syria, the Rojava, American unconditional support of Saudi Arabia as their allies... the list goes on and on, but, somehow, the beacon of enlightenment and wisdom in the world exists solely in the West, if the media rhetoric is to be believed.

I hear what you are saying in the above quote ALL the time but I don't know if I should trust the people who are saying it for they are the same people who have suggested that Isis is actually being led by the CIA. Absurd right? :s
The people suggesting such an internal decision, to play both sides of this terrorist organization/movement, are they themselves cast out of main stream society as 'preppers' or doomsday believers. While the rest of society functions day after day, oblivious to what hornet nests we are stirring up around the world. I used to pshaw their ideas, I believe we are an honest country and are led by people who truly do want to help others the world over. I don't believe us to be perfect, nor do we always make the right choices.
As France decides how to handle this country altering event, I do hope they are better at satisfying Aristotle's Challenge on Anger because that is where I believe, to a degree that the USA screwed up after 9.11.

Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy.

In response to 9.11 we hit the wrong person, even though he was a war criminal, Saddam Hussein didn't have any direct correlation to the events of 9.11 but he was an easy target. The rest of Aristotle's challenge was satisfied but without it ALL being satisfied, the ripple effect of our decisions are still being felt and reacted to.

As I was watching the horror unfold in France, the inevitable 'what would you do?' came to mind. I then think of the debate that takes place with almost every nation and the USA regarding the personal protection that a legal firearm provides. I am not saying that personal firearms would have changed the situation, I just wonder if the knowledge that the audience could be armed, might likely be armed, would have changed the appearance of these events being 'soft targets'.

John your painting invokes a lot of feelings in me which is awesome! I am very curious about the name of it 'Inception'! What does that title mean to you?

A portion of your first reply in this discussion has been posted on The Philosophy Forum Facebook page! Congratulations, and thank you for your contribution!

Why is 6 degrees!

Thank you Pneumenon!
Unicorn for 21

I have tried more than once to play this game you guys are playing and I just don't freakin get it. I'll just sit over here, have a drink and watch. 8-)

How far back in the past do you want to go in order for the USA to gracefully bow out?

Hmm maybe the USA did learn something from the Korean War. It certainly does seem that if there is to be peace in the middle East, that SOMEONE is going to have to leave an army to keep it safe. Does the EU have enough soldiers to maintain a demilitarized zone? For decades? What happens if the EU separates over time and circumstance?

I told you back in the days of Saddam Hussein, that the NEXT skirmish that breaks out, the USA will not respond to. That we have had enough and need to pick up our marbles and go home.

It is time for another country to be the World Leader and it looks like Putin is trying to fill that vacuum. Good man, yes? :s

Just because we have a right to carry firearms does not mean that anyone can legally carry a firearm. There are a host of people that are prevented from legally owning a firearm, from anyone convicted of a crime, anyone who is addicted to drugs, under the legal age of 18 ect. Responsible, legal firearm owners and carriers are not the kind of people that would use a firearm against their wife over an argument or over a parking space. Responsible armed citizens are aware that despite a desire for a Utopian society, that is not the reality we are living in BUT that does not make gun owners reckless as you suggest.

I am not sure I could wear your watch as it would remind me too often that I would probably become obsessed with the concept. Awesome conversation piece!

Adorable little one Benkei!

Here is a picture of me with my two Indians and my half sister who still lives in Chicago.

These are the horses that we have been fostering since February. We expected them to be with us a bit longer but last weekend they were moved to another ranch. Loved having them here~

"About a year ago I met an American who was generally on the left. He thought that the U.S. would be better off with gun control and agreed with lots of the reasoning for it. He also maintained that if the police came to his property to confiscate his guns he would fire at them. It was amazing to me, he was self reflective about it and knew it sounded crazy yet insisted that he'd do it anyway. You can't find people like that in Australia, one of the joys of travelling."

The American you met does not stand alone in his attitude that he has a right to keep his firearms and would object if there was a government initiated confiscation. One of the reasons that many American's own firearms is to defend themselves against the very government that would feel entitled to such a confiscation. In a much older thread at another place, I asked whom around the world, would believe an American's plea for help, if our government turned on US, it's citizens AND help. The answer to my question was stunning as the ONLY forum member, in a sea of represented countries, that said would help was from Canada (maybe ssu, I would have to look back) and that was in the form of medical support and maybe refuge for American's wanting to flee the USA.

Scary freakin scenario for sure, when your government has been "helping" other countries the world over and NO one would come over to help the USA citizens fight it's own government.

Which Facebook offers a $5.00 fee to promote. 8-)

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Come on you guyyyyyyyyyyysss! Like, Follow and SHARE The Philosophy Forum Facebook page's posts and really, like rabbits, we will multiply! You know you want to 8-)

I am not sure why the name of this split off thread is what it is because although the idea of "gun control" falls under the topic of 'firearms' it is not what I am trying to define when I say that "an armed society, is a polite society".

Even though they are not my words originally, they describe what I see around me and what my experience has been. Chicago is my hometown where the gun control is about as tight as they come and now I am on a ranch in Arizona, where you can carry a concealed firearm without a permit.

Just because someone carries a firearm does not mean that they are "out of control" or just looking for a reason to fight. It is actually quite the opposite. Those who carry a firearm in Arizona rarely hide it, it's just part of the culture. Twenty years ago it was gun racks on the back window of the trucks, now it is on their side hip for a guy and pouched in the front of the tummy if it is a woman. Unlike Chicago where you have to be suspicious of others because it is hard to judge the unknown. Arizonan's know straight up who is armed and it would be wise to believe that some are still carrying concealed.

That is what it is really about, being "wise" when it comes to living in a society that is likely armed.

First you have to be wise enough to know if you should ever be carrying a gun to begin with. I do believe that if you have a firearm AND don't know how to use it (which most important is to know when to use a firearm) that it will likely be used against you. This is not just a phrase but something I witnessed as a child being used against my single Mom, who had to protect two young children.

If you decide you are capable of carrying a firearm and legally allowed to do so, then it becomes a part of your level of defenses not another tool to use in dealing with assholes who have an attitude. The people that carry a firearm are very aware of their surroundings and those of us who don't carry are not just more aware of the people who are openly armed but are counting on them to take action, IF action were to become necessary to protect his/her family lives and those lives around them. Whether it is the lady at the next ranch over being armed or two out of six people in line at the gas station, it's all the same. You are more aware, you are more polite, you hold down your ruckus if your drunk and in general you are just more likely to watch how you behave in public.

Hence 'an armed society, is a polite society'.

Does the "leave your weapon at the door" apply to my puppy? :P

I am very curious as to why the association is made between Americans legally owning firearms and the idea that the gun owner would overreact to anything said about them.

The right of freedom of speech is just as respected as the right to bear arms. It would not only be disingenuous but also hypocritical of an American, to tell others what rights they are entitled to.

Again I say an armed society is a polite society.

I might have expressed my love/perceived firearm fetish too much, which is probably true but it is an ingrained right and out here in Arizona it's very commonplace to carry.
I am a believer in that an armed society, is a polite society and if ever I find myself in need of protection outside of my Rottweiler, that those who are around me will have the ability to act instead of calling for help that too often would arrive to late.
~right or wrong, it is the reality I live in and raise young men in. Both are certified marksman as is NicK. I am the only one that would never pick up a firearm because I believe it would be used against me but that is because I doubt I could psychologically handle, the taking of another's life.

8-) Take a look around you for these are the 'good' times~

Add to that a sharpening of our critical thinking which can be misunderstood in the non thinker world and seen as criticism.

TPF already is something different, something BETTER, with you back on the boards! 8-)

Joel! I am really glad you made it here. It wouldn't be the same without you! (L)

I was searching high and low for you in the club! I saw someone on these boards refer to you, Yahadreas, but then I went to the member list and there was no such name!
~smiles~ Michael, I am really glad you are here! 8-)

I realize I might be a little late to the party but I just figured out who Michael is! (L) :D

Do you really believe that?

Thank you for deleting my topic! You magical person in the sky! I had no idea how and some angel came by and fixed it! Without me asking? Wow!

I have a flock of kids over here that could take a lesson or two if you want to come forward and earn a buck! :D

For me philosophy is like a tool belt that a journeyman/journeywoman wears as they work through their day, each day, every day. To a 'thinker', with each question may come an answer, but not many are conclusive answers, and that is where I look to the discipline of philosophy. In practicing philosophy it allows me to gain the knowledge (tools) to fill that tool belt. Whether it is a moral, ethical, logical, religious or metaphysical idea to entertain, we have the tools in our belt to get us a bit further down the path of exploration of that idea, but rarely, if ever, is an absolute truth discovered.

A portion of your reply (the first on this thread, 8 days ago) has been posted on The Philosophy Forum Facebook page. Congratulations and Thank you for your contribution!

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Tiffers
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Yes he is a nice view, isn't he? 8-)
At times it is a really good thing we are not blood related!

I love your work, especially the blue and black bowl~

The more content we can put up on Facebook, the more traction we will get as Facebook is a feeder pond for Google to fish in. Just a thought!

A portion of your reply has been posted to The Philosophy Forum Facebook page. Congratulations and Thank you for your contribution BitterCrank!

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum

How about a simple arrangement of the letters TPF? Whatever font, whatever color, decide upon one to like or live with for about a year so it is consistent across the Internet searches. As it is now, when I quoted a page on TPF on the TPF Facebook page, my options for a thumbnail were Benkei with a beer or nothing. Surely you know which I chose. 8-)
If not, have you become a follower of TPF on Facebook? If not, consider doing so today!

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