I enjoyed this conversation very much until a statement with a negative intention was used to make a point....
Anyways as days have gone on I've been thinking plants are grown from a stem that branches into roots and extend looking for resources like nutrients and water. Any living thing that pulls on the plant to release it from the soil is ripping fibers and thus the plant species is separated from its source to live. I now compare this idea to a mammals brain stem being damaged in which we will eventually die from being unable to breathe and maintain blood flow to organs leading to your body to not feel any pain, and release hormones to numb and stay alive.
Another example is when I buy flowers they will only stay healthy for a short amount of time in water, so plants are dying when gathered or used as food. They will not feel pain. I dont believe it is immoral anymore.

Mutations happen by accident and some mutations happen to be helpful in procreation, while others are not. Someday a plant accidentally grew thorn-like things, it happened to survive because it didn't get eaten, and so it reproduced more, and so on. — NKBJ

Mutations is a good word to describe how our immune systems identify different virus and bacteria to help our survival. I think it happened to survive from what the species has learned which allows more reproduction. I'm not understanding where an accident has helped us survive more than plants? I see where our subconscious involves bodies are exposed to the environment and we I.d. threats, plants are exposed to the environment and i.d. threats so we are not as conscious as I might even think.

They're not consciously doing any of that. You can't describe the chemical reactions of a plant, or the physical attributes thereof as a plant "trying" to do anything. — NKBJ

Excellent point I agree that can never be proven but their existence is seen as they have adapted through harsh environments, teaming up with fungi and using our carbon dioxide for their chemical processes. When we eat meat we are consuming the plant properties that has allowed that animal to live so the source the plants always has been. To me that's a conscious effort for survival.

We KNOW that animals feel pain. We don't know that plants do, and we have no good evidence to suggest that they might. — NKBJ

They are using defense mechanisms to protect their existence, they do not have pain receptors to have them learn their environment but they are trying to send foul odors, poisonous toxins and developing spines to avoid us and nature. It is immoral to abuse the consumption of plants as it is immoral to abuse the consumption of animals. We know animals feel pain from their reactions, and behaviors of vocalizing or trying to clean or hide injuries, while plants are under attack of microbes, parasites, and being somewhat defenseless in the food chain for our ecosystem. They are adapting to learn how to defend and survive.

as long as you have fat you dont need to eat to live. You need fluids.

However, I think meat has certain enzymes we have adapted to utilize in our bodies throughout history and I give people support that want to improve their health but that requires conditioning and practicing to change their sensitivity to certain resources of food. It is not immediate. Thank you.

Hello, so it seems to me like the scientific method is to communicate shared experiences, observations, results, in order to explain collected data. It is true information only if results are recorded. It is truth if the results can be replicated every attempt at performing the experiment.
I really dont want to be the one to say that the truth is, none of us will ever know what is true or what is not true because even feelings can be deceiving. Limitations are not even true such as natural laws governing matter are being broken at the quantum level. I really want to think of another method for all of you and the only thing that comes to mind is learning. For example, as a child you are forced to obey parents or guardians and listen to what they say is true because their actions brought you to exist. They provide for you and seems to be true until you are able to actively think about what has been said or shown. Knowledge seems to im'prove' your chance for existence and that is our tool to find safety and comfort. Here are some truths I struggle with : you need to consume water or fluids to live, all mammals bleed, and all information can be disputed. Thank you.

"...haven't met a plant that can object to their actions." - gloaming

Hi everyone, I would like to share a thought to this conversation. I think plants have been objecting our human actions, and even animals actions by growing thorns, releasing foul odors, poisoning our immune systems such as some chile peppers are spicy to us as a defense mechanism. Most of all of our seeds that grow into plants, contain fibers with developed chemicals similar to our brain. Which is probaly why we improve our health when we consume some natural plants in moderation. They may not have pain receptors as humans do but they are trying to defend their chance for survival by learning to improve their immune systems to fight off microbes, parasites, diseases, and the ones that eat them. They release oxygen for the air we breathe and some can only be grown in certain locations. Plants may be more useful than we might think such as the Greek etymology neuron is anything of a fibrous nature.

Thank you, I believe it is immoral to eat plants if they can feel pain which they do if it is risking their chance for survival shown in their defense against us and nature.