Apart from the superficial comparison to Kissinger, the only piece of substance in that warbling blob of text is this:

Today everything must be done to increase the human, financial and military cost of this war for Moscow. But we must also, with lucidity, lead Ukraine to consider a solution other than the continuation of an unequal fight. — Olivier5

And if so - what seems to be the issue, exactly?

Yet, persuading people through the threat of ostracism or insults or by repeating "putative" truths ad nausaum or pointing at somebody's "putative" inconsistency using maybe strawman arguments are all epistemically fallacious ways of persuading to me. Still when there is no ground for rational/moral agreement violence is an option as viable as one can afford, and as valid as its effectiveness. That is why Russian aggression and Western violent response to that have their "rhetoric" force in persuading or dissuading the two competing powers and other powers. Accordingly, the answer to your question ("Make war just so we don't seem weak?") can arguably be yes, while that rhetorical "just" in your question is arguably misleading or prejudicial. — neomac

This is so many rambly words to say it's OK that Ukrainians should drop dead on the West's behalf.

It's funny, at least the others like to pretend - or are too stupid to understand otherwise - that this is not a full blown proxy war and that it's all done for the benevolence of poor, repressed Ukrainians. It's nice to have someone come right out and say: yep, this is about the West feeling insecure!

This doesn't even make sense when directed at me lol. Being cute is not a substitute for not being dumb.

The stronger Russia remains the more likely they will be able to come back after us one way or the other in the West and outside, and encouraging the anti-Western front in the rest of the World. And Europeans are exposed to these existential threats much more than the US. — neomac

This is just neoconservative parochial trash. Your paranoia does not mean you get to excuse and encourage Western bloodshed. The one lesson to be learnt from the mass murder of Ukranians taking place right now is that efforts to 'weaken' perceived enemies are above all the prime causes of mass death on a global scale. It will of course not be learnt. Anyone with a pulse will have learnt this paying attention to even an iota of US foreign policy since the end of the second world war, but warmongering stains like you continue to champion this utter death-generating rubbish over and over again.

Yes, and? That the West feels left out in the bloodshed is not exactly an excuse to partake and heighten it.

Edit: Sorry, by "partake" I mean, not partake at all and let Ukranians do the dying on their behalf.

If we don't encourage the wonton murder of Ukranians, the West will be seen as weak :(

Never mind that the places like the US routinely shoot their own children in schools, which is no doubt a sign of immense strength.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/biden-closing-new-weapons-package-ukraine-2022-05-31/

Anyway, another $700 million dollars of death dealing because fuck it, may as well cycle the money to arms dealers while the going is good and the grift can be maintained.

Lol:

"Russia has exported MORE oil since the war began (of course for much more money) than in the year before it. And case study in hypocrisy, the United States, while pressing the world to put sanctions on Russian oil, in March 2022, almost doubled how much it imported from Russia to 4.2 million barrels a month. Note the explosion of Asian export vectors. So much for sanctions. As for the EU’s comic announcement today that they will embargo Russian oil, except not for 8 months, and excluding oil delivered by pipeline (lucky old Hungarians and Germans). And of course any seaborne cargo with only 49% Russian oil is permitted, the other 51% may be itself 49% Russian molecules, shake and repeat until you have a seaborne cargo supplied by a cunning Greek shipping magnate and a sly Zurich commodities broker, which is deemed non-Russian but in fact has possibly 99% Russian molecules." -via a comrade.



Not even the West believes in the bullshit the West is peddling. Which leaves only forum flag-wavers to actually buy into it, who in turn get mad when critics of the West simply agree with the West that it is up to it's neck in bullshit and blood. What even is the level of patheticness it takes to run interference for people who don't believe in the very things they get the people to run interference for them over?

So just your typical ad hominem bullshit — ssu

Yeah like all the ad homs where you literally could not read and then ran away with your tail behind your legs when it's been pointed out to you. You are worth exactly the minimum effort and not a finger more.

I'm not wading though these pages of muck to repost all the times you have played Nazi PR specialist, but you are welcome to search my posts for when I have called you out on it. Although probably don't bother as you wouldn't be able to read them correctly anyway.

Well you apologize for Nazis so I suppose I can trust you to apologize for tyrannical regimes.

Have you considered just like, not apologizing for bad things? Or do you just have like some kind of externally-directed Catholic guilt about the world?

It's so wild to me that Americans always like to half-heartedly acknowledge "the US has a bad history...". No, it does not have a bad history. It sucks in the present tense.

No one says "China has a bad history" or "Russia has a bad history". They simply say - correctly - "China fucking sucks" and "Russia fucking sucks". Guess what? America, currently, presently fucking sucks.

It's happened twice now in the space of the last two pages. "History" is not a storage space for America's bad shit, to be sequestered and lopped off as an academic's concern.

Literally every US decision or policy has a hidden agenda and dishonest means. — Streetlight

This was literally a response to someone saying that "not every US decision or policy has a hidden agenda and dishonest means".

But your kindergarten reading ability has been remarked upon before, and it would be unnecessary to bring it up again.

It should be added explicitly that it's true that the US was not entirely responsible for demanding a Ukrainian blood sacrifice for its own purposes. There really were forces internal to Ukraine that also helped precipitate war and the masses of Ukrainian dead - the famous Ukrainian 'agency' that liberals like to harp on about. Those internal forces were fucking Nazis.

It's all just about how bad the US is and nothing else. US is bad and everything evolves around the US and hence the US is at fault in everything. — ssu

Literally no one is saying this, and the only people keen to force a choice between waving one flag or the other - as if this were a soccer match - are people who cannot stand to see their "team" being spoken badly of.

You know you can make your personality more than just about coming to the defense of your favorite genocidal state. It's OK to do that.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-urges-un-rights-chief-022721476.html

China has called for the United Nations human rights chief to investigate mass shootings in the US, in an apparent effort to shift the focus from allegations of abuses in its far western Xinjiang region. The Global Times made the suggestion in an editorial Tuesday, a day after Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said at a regular briefing in Beijing that the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights should produce a report on problems the US faces. “The US system is equally incapable, or lacks interest, motivation, and courage, to address these problems thoroughly,” said the Communist Party newspaper, which added that US domestic issues have “intensified its external aggression.”

The world is a parody of itself and children and minorities will die because of it.

Anyway look at this vocal minority who don't buy into...




Oh no my mistake, that is the literally the majority of the entire planet, although presumably they are 'minorities' because they are not quite white enough to count as actual people or something.

All those billions of Putinistas if only they were more enlightened by the grace of Western Reason.

Oh thank God you actually wrote a post worth reading from beginning to end.

A vocal minority with fingers in media and politician pies gee I wonder do they have big noses too?

My favourite one is when literally every shill was on board with "omg it's not a proxy war Ukranian aGeNcY" only for Biden to be like "yes we are trying to get rid of Putin" on national TV and people just... pretended it didn't happen, much to the delight and relief of Lockheed and Boeing not to mention the entire German and Swedish arms industry. It's so nice of the Ukranians to drop dead for American interests, real nice of them.

Brilliant. You don't disappoint. So now your argument that "Russia is evil, Ukraine are good, and America are just benevolent bystanders" is the worldly and complex one! — Isaac

The 'complexity' argument on the side of people who are like "everything is exactly as the US news media portrays it and anyone who says different is a Putin sympathiser" is wild.

Spell this out in a bit more detail... — creativesoul

There are 264 pages of discussion about this for you to read about this topic. In lieu of that, here is one single discussion among millions of others:

https://mate.substack.com/p/by-using-ukraine-to-fight-russia?s=r

Worth noting, that, contrary to the story-tale that Ukraine 'chose' to deal with the West, the West couped Ukraine exactly at the time at which it choose to stop dealing with the West, as outlined in the article.

---

A basic rule of thumb for assessing world politics: assume the worst about US intervention overseas, and the truth will be roughly twice as murderous and disgusting as that.

Yes, the US does not have a stellar history of supporting duly elected leaders unless those leaders are the ones who are 'friendly' to the US and it's financial interests. — creativesoul

It's not history, it's happening right now, and will continue to happen. Russia is the aggressor. The US just did everything in its power to ensure this would be the case.

For whatever that's worth around here. — creativesoul

Nothing, apparently.

It is amazing that the US can literally lie, fuck-up, and cause untold destruction in literally every war and foreign policy intervention it has ever been involved in since the beginning of time, and people will still be like "it's different this time I swear bro".

Then you haven't been paying attention.

Literally every US decision or policy has a hidden agenda and dishonest means.

OK. Stay classy.

Because I quoted his words back at him before he changed it?

Additional fun from the Western media:

British empire smut rag The Times has a new article out titled "Azov Battalion drops neo-Nazi symbol exploited by Russian propagandists," which has got to be the most hilarious headline of 2022 so far (and I'm including The Onion and other intentionally funny headlines in the running).

"The Azov Battalion has removed a neo-Nazi symbol from its insignia that has helped perpetuate Russian propaganda about Ukraine being in the grip of far-right nationalism," The Times informs us. "At the unveiling of a new special forces unit in Kharkiv, patches handed to soldiers did not feature the wolfsangel, a medieval German symbol that was adopted by the Nazis and which has been used by the battalion since 2014. Instead, they featured a golden trident, the Ukrainian national symbol worn by other regiments."

Yeah that's how you solve Ukraine's Nazi problem. A logo change.

https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/empire-solves-ukraines-nazi-problem?s=w

Anyway it's great how Germany is literally changing its constitution to appease weapon mongerers and merchants of death:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-29/germany-to-change-constitution-to-enable-110-billion-defense-fund

"BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany has agreed to change its constitution to allow for a credit-based special defense fund of 100 billion euros ($107.35 billion) proposed after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, the German finance ministry announced on Sunday. Germany's centre-right opposition and ruling coalition with centre-left Social Democrats (SPD), Greens and pro-business Free Democrats (FDP) said they reached the required two-thirds majority to exempt the defense fund from a constitutional debt brake."

It's always good fun when Germany is armed to the teeth. That has always gone well.

I don't war crime apologies — Olivier5

Pre-edit.

Lol.

You don't English either, apparently.

So you agree with me but just want to talk shit? OK.

Must be sad to be so insecure.

Lol, yes, because I think war is a crime. If this makes me a 'Putinista' then you bet I'm a Putinista, so long as we are evacuating words of all meaning.

"War crime" is a tautology.

Yall need to stop debating fascists and start just treating them badly. The good faith you have in them is misplaced. NOS is neither an imbicile, nor disingenuous, nor "not reading properly". He just likes people to be dead. The faster you understand this the less time you will waste.

https://www.newsweek.com/american-children-shot-dead-more-police-2022-line-duty-school-shootings-gun-crime-1710684?amp=1

According to the Education Week report, there have been 27 school shootings in 2022 and 119 in total since 2018, when they began tracking such incidents.

Literally none of this is an accident. All of this is built-in, all of this is the goal. People need to stop apologizing for this stuff as though these are 'risks'. I was even wrong to say above the cops were scared. They were not scared. It is simply not their job. Their only job is to beat on the weak, that's it. Everyone someone ascribes failed good intentions, and not simply intentions straight-up, they are apologists for mass murder, nothing less.

Gun people think slaughters are acceptable risks. — Jackson

It's not a risk, it's the goal itself. They want the big scawarry gubberment to be afraid of gun wielders. Well, mission accomplished, the cops were so pussified they allowed a kid to shoot other kids one by one in the face for an hour while they themselves intimidated parents outside the school. Slaughters are not risks they are designed outcomes, not merely acceptable, but desired.

In the meantime, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy for the cops: too scared to do their literal fucking job descriptions, they are reduced to murdering the mentally ill and sleeping women because they're the kind of people who can't unload an AR-15 into a classroom. These are not risks. These are intentions. This is everything going to plan.

Who's 'right' and who's 'wrong' is for the puerile moralisers here to agonise over which flag to waive. — Isaac

:up:

Can't wait till "good" Swedish weapons explode some Kurdish or Armenian families into bloody little pieces in the hands of Turks because the Swedes were too pussy to stand up to American plans for global supremacy.

https://www-expressen-se.translate.goog/nyheter/sverige-backar-om-vapen-till-turkiet-turbulent-tid/?_x_tr_sl=sv&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

Fuck Sweden

Says the dude's whose entire argument is "the mountains of actual child corpses are no match for my overactive imagination".