• What is a meme?
    I wondered once if dolphins live in a meme matrix as well, and that their 'talk' sequences are just codes to help others key into the matrix....so their 'talking' isn't a language in itself, it represents access coding for other dolphins, access memes maybe. What we see as dolphins may infact be dolphins in that or a related matrix...maybe the dolphins were among the first high ranking meme generators on the planet, in this meme matrix....maybe when a dolphin lives in this other world, maybe they live as a being with hands etc, and can manipulate virtual objects and communicate within that world...
  • What is a meme?
    What do you think of memes now? — TheMadFool

    I have this idea that we live in a meme matrix whereby everything is formed with memes..

    I sort of think of memes as networks of interplaying, interconnecting algorithms. Our thoughts are made from memes, memes that map onto other memes in the world and with other memes in the body and across society and the world.

    This isn't a matrix thing running on some big computer, this matrix just exists, and has its origins in an eternal meme development process....God is the meme generator, and made of memes himself...maybe.
  • The story of creation, but in a clear and realistic view
    If I had the cash I'd like to commission a small animation of the ejection event, from the perspective of someone watching Adam and Eve loitering around the Tree of Knowledge.....they'd get talking to some weird being and then they'd be seen eating an apple/quince and then the whole area around the tree would be sealed in a sort of spherical bubble, and an alert would be sounded across Eden saying 'Ejection procedure initiated. Ejection commencing in 5 seconds.'

    and five seconds later the bubble would sink into the ground replaced by empty land. and then a small tree would sprout in its place, and in a short while the tree of knowledge would be fully grown again, sans Adam and Eve,

    The bubble would in its ejected state form the (perhaps) hypersphere at the beginning of the inflation event(big bang), and would be a corrupted part of Eden that had some of its life forces, some of which had been corrupted....the life forces would lead to the creation of the first single cells on planets, and in this manner all life would have sprung partly from Adam and Eve..
  • The story of creation, but in a clear and realistic view
    I came up with the ideas a few years ago, that the 'garden of Eden' existed before the universe, and that 'the fall' of Adam and Eve and their subsequent ejection from Eden was represented by the 'big bang'....ie the beginning of the expansion event was a result of their rejection, and wasn't a creative event, but represents a destructive event.....the universe and all its processes represents a part of Eden that was rejected, and so has some of the same processes, of which some have been corrupted....so you still have some beauty in this universe, but you also have products of the corruption of some of the processes so you have things like the apparent perpetual increase in entropy, which can't go on indefinitely...the first cells were created by the life forces, yet have to struggle to survive, and the process of evolution is kind of founded on the fact that life has a limited length and there is death..
  • Finding comfort in boredom.
    ‘Neuroscience is beginning to investigate what happens in the brain during boredom,’ Prof. Enticott says. ‘Interestingly, and perhaps not surprisingly, we see the activation of areas linked to negative emotions like fear and disgust.’

    ‘But we also see activation within various regions of the prefrontal cortex, which is largely responsible for our planned, goal-directed behaviour. In this instance, it might reflect motivation to behave in a way that changes our environment, and thus reduce the negative state of boredom,’ he says.
    https://this.deakin.edu.au/self-improvement/can-you-blame-your-friends-for-your-unhealthy-habits
  • The Foolishness Of Political Correctness
    does it really matter if it is a small number of people acting in a certain way, that is linked to the view of what PC is?

    Surely it the effect these people have on a larger society, not the size of the groups.

    Not that it needs an analogy, but one could describe the bombing of Hiroshima as just a few blokes in a plane dropping a bomb...in this case, too, it wouldn't really have any bearing how many people were in the plane...or the relatively small number of people involved in the Manhattan Project.
  • Real Laws And Usurpatory Dictates
    yes, if something is passed into law, like you say, it can be scrutinised, and it can be challenged, and the ability to overturn it is then there.
  • Finding comfort in boredom.
    I'm surprised more mature readers of this forum, haven't found solitude in "boredom"? Isn't that a sign that everything is proceeding well and such? — Wallows

    but being in a state of boredom doesn't really say much about whether things are going well in your life or not.
    A prisoner sitting in his cell with little to do, for years might well be bored a lot of the time, for example. Things are hardly going well for them.
    A homeless person sitting in a closed shop doorway might well be bored, as well as hungry and cold.
  • Is climate change a Jungian archetype?
    They can think what they like, it’s still not proof. I say that in relation to people readily believing in the catastrophe of cc without really knowing the facts. — Brett

    I dunno; often when people don't know the facts, they tend to be sceptical of man-driven climate change.
  • Is climate change a Jungian archetype?
    I just think that connecting littering to climate change is a big stretch. So I replaced littering with the experience of climate change. Only having read about the problem could they then accept the connection of littering with climate change. Otherwise they would make no connection. — Brett

    well even if the person doesn't feel as though they have experienced climate change directly, the causes of man-driven climate change are usually presented as being a product of the manufacturing processes, and electric etc power creation.

    So a profligate attitude to consumerism, and the attitude to the way that unwanted things from that process, like rubbish, and toxic waste, as well as CO2 emissions, are deal with may indeed lead someone to connect things like litter, to societal attitudes, and man-drive climate change....
  • Is climate change a Jungian archetype?
    This would depend on someone actually experiencing the effects of climate change. — Brett

    why?

    They might read about how man-kind's profligacy and carelessness leading to man-driven climate change, and link that to a view that people litter for similar reasons.
  • Is climate change a Jungian archetype?
    From the perspective of this conversation it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. — Brett

    I'm not sure it is beneficial to separate the two things.

    Take a person who has witnessed an increase in local littering, and who then reads an article about man driven climate change.

    This person may link these two things, ie the local witness and perception of change, to the global, and local issues around man-driven climate change.

    This connection may be that they think there needs to be a change in the way society works. The two things like seeing local littering and reading about climate change may re-enforce each other, and so what is the need to separate these two things?

    The littering thing may be just a perception thing, whereby a person projects his general feeling that things need to change, which may be just a projection itself of a feeling that their own life may need to change in some way...but these things are all linked anyway...maybe they feel that their own life needs to change because there is just so much more dam littering in the area, and they should move somewhere else. :)

    the upshot of the last connection might lead someone to want to move to another place due to climate change...preferably another planet, maybe. :)
  • Can there be true giving without sacrifice? Alternate Can there be true love without sacrifice?
    if you use a metaphor...take someone who has some spare time; he can either use it to watch tv, or read a book, or he can make something to give as a gift. If he enjoys making the object, or whatever it is, then he has gained in the process of giving, after he has given the gift to someone. win win in that case.
  • The Universe closed, but unbounded...
    another thing I was just thinking:

    maybe not all curvature is associated with matter. Maybe there is a lot of curvature left over, after matter has been created...this curvature may still end up associated with the location of matter...maybe the left over curvature gathers around matter, and its associated curvature.

    This could be an explanation for what is know as Dark Matter.

    I read that where as a galaxy might exist as some kind of plane, that the dark matter was supposed to be more spherical, or its effects suggested this.

    Maybe if dark matter were really just left-over curvature of a closed but unbounded 4-space/system...then it would exist in this way, more spread out into a sphere in the locations of galaxies.
  • Is climate change a Jungian archetype?
    well the process of emergence is important I think.

    Perhaps I could put it to you that the cause of some of the problems on this planet might have lead to the effects on this planet, and any associated ways of looking at the problem, like consequentiality climate change, and possible solutions, are linked..?

    ie the cause and what is happening to the planet are linked...in this context, the effects of climate change are rooted in the same thing as other problems, and associated ideas like 'climate change'.
  • Why is racism unethical?
    But that is a weak argument concerning the existence of racism however, because as many scientist have stated, it's (racism) a social construct. — Anaxagoras

    well, if it is a social construct,then what motivates its construction?

    I think one of the things is facial recognition, which is part of the so called 'cross-race effect'.
    The cross-race effect isn't just about facial recognition, it is about being tuned into one's own culture, and not so tuned into another culture.
    Within your own culture, you may notice nuances in things, like ideas, perspectives, tastes in music, and more basic stuff like accents.
    With a different culture, which is often associated with different races, people are less tuned into those things...think of some strong accent, like German..it might be harder to tell people with a German accent apart, which is part of the inability to form recognition and differences between people.

    The inability for people to be differentiated leads to paranoia and fear I think, which then leads into some forms of dislike of other groups of people.
  • "Ideology Of Mass Consumption"
    ↪Bitter Crank


    there is the potential use of them in space, where they can't store that much in the way of spare parts.
  • Why is racism unethical?
    it's funny I just thought the saying 'sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me'.

    Who ever came up with that saying must have thought that words have power; and it this specific case the power to empower victims of words that can hurt...
  • How does motivation work with self-reflection? Is it self-deception? What a conception!
    one reason that some animals might not reflect on their situations is that they just feel compelled to fulfil certain actions. When they see and hear their chicks, they may feel compelled to look after them, they fear something bad might happen to them, like being killed by predators, or dying from lack of food.. They might not have the ability to wonder why they feel compelled like this....a bird probably isn't aware of the theory of evolution, and so not realise how it came to be compelled to do certain things.
    When it comes to looking just after itself, a bird might not be able to imagine another way of life...in the way humans can....I suppose in a lot of cases there isn't much to reflect on.
  • How does motivation work with self-reflection? Is it self-deception? What a conception!
    I think a lot of people at work just focus on the future, like what they are going to do after work, at the week end, on their future holidays......they might enjoy thinking what they would do if they won the lottery as well....then also they might focus on what they do enjoy about their work situation, like interacting with other people; looking forward to their breaks...little perks like going for a cigarette.

    I have found that the feeling of coming off a shift can be a real pleasure in itself...a sudden feeling of freedom.
  • "Ideology Of Mass Consumption"
    Your expectations might be too high. Have you used an ordinary home printer recently? You got it for free, sort of, but the frequent ink refills you have to buy are expensive. They are wonderful little printers until they aren't any more. How much do you think the 3D printing stocks will cost? How messy will a 3D printing failure be? What if you don't like the product the machine printed--will Amazon.scam cheerfully refund your purchase? FINE PRINT: seller is not responsible for operator errors or privately owned equipment failures.

    Whether it works or not, it will be just another way of moving money out of your pocket into somebody else's.     — Bitter Crank

    if 3d printing really took off, I think it would be in the factory environment to start with; with expensive 3d printers.
  • The Foolishness Of Political Correctness
    Basically Ok, but you are implying that a) the group of some people that might behave (?) cannot behave like Mussolini. And Mussolini, who once was a leading member of the Italian Socialist Party, who preached of violent revolution, praised Karl Marx and criticized patriotism, couldn't ever have been politically correct (hypothetically, as he is quite dead and lived in a different time). — ssu

    yes, I realised that; I just didn't want to make the venn diagram too complicated.
  • The Foolishness Of Political Correctness
    venn.jpg

    Does this venn diagram make sense?

    I think if political correctness has any meaning, then it means more than being polite, and having good manners.
  • The Fooled Generation
    I don't think I've ever used the term 'sheeple' but I have often been surprised, when watching, One Man and His Dog, how easily the sheep seem to chose going in a pen, rather that confront the sheep dog.

    I did see a sheep decide to charge and ram the sheepdog once...obviously a bit of a rebel. :D

    I think we have a kind of 'path of least resistance' society, to a large degree..it is fairly easy to see how that can be used to guide people down paths of thought and action, to various ends.

    I often think that people like to think of themselves as brave and strong; which is why poppy day is so popular..people think by so called honouring the dead, that that means their 'honour' would have been worth anything to the people that died in past wars.
    They make this illogical assumption that by honouring the dead by looking a bit sad and wearing a paper flower, that they must be very honourable people, and therefore strong and brave themselves..

    But that doesn't really follow. Not that all the people that attend remembrance day are weak.

    I think society is the product of on going emergence, of a take the path of least resistance process generally.....society often only sorts itself out when that attitude no-longer works, as in a world war, hole in the ozone etc...event happens....or on an individual bases, when taking the path of least resistance would lead someone to end up living on the street for example.
  • Why is racism unethical?
    Prosopagnosia
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Prosopagnosia
    Synonyms Face blindness
    Fusiform gyrus animation.gif
    Animation of the fusiform area, the area damaged in prosopagnosia
    Pronunciation

    /ˌprɒsəpæɡˈnoʊzɪə/[1]

    Specialty Neurology

    Prosopagnosia, also called face blindness,[2] is a cognitive disorder of face perception in which the ability to recognize familiar faces, including one's own face (self-recognition), is impaired, while other aspects of visual processing (e.g., object discrimination) and intellectual functioning (e.g., decision-making) remain intact. The term originally referred to a condition following acute brain damage (acquired prosopagnosia), but a congenital or developmental form of the disorder also exists, which may affect up to 2.5% of the United States population.[3] The specific brain area usually associated with prosopagnosia is the fusiform gyrus,[4] which activates specifically in response to faces. The functionality of the fusiform gyrus allows most people to recognize faces in more detail than they do similarly complex inanimate objects. For those with prosopagnosia, the new method for recognizing faces depends on the less sensitive object-recognition system. The right hemisphere fusiform gyrus is more often involved in familiar face recognition than the left. It remains unclear whether the fusiform gyrus is only specific for the recognition of human faces or if it is also involved in highly trained visual stimuli.

    There are two types of prosopagnosia: acquired and congenital (developmental). Acquired prosopagnosia results from occipito-temporal lobe damage and is most often found in adults. This is further subdivided into apperceptive and associative prosopagnosia. In congenital prosopagnosia, the individual never adequately develops the ability to recognize faces.[5]

    Though there have been several attempts at remediation, no therapies have demonstrated lasting real-world improvements across a group of prosopagnosics. Prosopagnosics often learn to use "piecemeal" or "feature-by-feature" recognition strategies. This may involve secondary clues such as clothing, gait, hair color, skin color, body shape, and voice. Because the face seems to function as an important identifying feature in memory, it can also be difficult for people with this condition to keep track of information about people, and socialize normally with others. Prosopagnosia has also been associated with other disorders that are associated with nearby brain areas: left hemianopsia (loss of vision from left side of space, associated with damage to the right occipital lobe), achromatopsia (a deficit in color perception often associated with unilateral or bilateral lesions in the temporo-occipital junction) and topographical disorientation (a loss of environmental familiarity and difficulties in using landmarks, associated with lesions in the posterior part of the parahippocampal gyrus and anterior part of the lingual gyrus of the right hemisphere).[6] It is from the Greek: prosopon = "face" and agnosia = "not knowing".

    The opposite of prosopagnosia is the skill of superior face recognition ability. Scotland Yard has a special criminal investigation unit composed of people, called "super-recognizers", with this skill.[7]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia

    The Cross-race-effect is partly about facial recognition.

    Facial recognition is an incredibly powerful part of how humans interact, and how society functions.
    A lot of people take it for granted, I think.

    Say you step out onto the street, and you see some guy walking down the pavement...'oh, hi Bob; how you doing?', might follow from seeing him, but if you couldn't tell Bob, from John Major or any other male in the world, that simply quite ordinary interaction would be quite different, wouldn't it?
  • Why is racism unethical?
    Ok, so if I get this right, whites a getting cucked because we can no longer be sure that when we look at our neighbour if he is from good European breeding stock? :confused: — Akanthinos

    that's an odd interpretation of my post.
  • Why is racism unethical?
    Are physical differences a sound basis to establish superiority/inferiority? In what terms would you say a particular race is physically superior than another ? I'm curious. — TheMadFool

    I'm not talking about those aspects of how racism presents itself.

    I'm talking about some of the things which lead to racism. Facial and other characteristics, can lead to some people not really getting a gestalt when they see another person.

    A gestalt is an event where the brain/mind forms a whole impression of something, from the components of that thing, rather than seeing those components separately.

    This isn't even confined to any specific race...the cross-race-effect itself is even a misnomer, as for example a person adopted by a family of another race, will develop to recognise more easily people of their adopted families more easily than their own. A child may get the 'cross race effect' later in life when they see people of their own race.
  • Why is racism unethical?
    Therefore, physical/mental differences between races is a factual error unless you want to base your entire philosophy on color. — TheMadFool

    it's not just colour though, is it..there are other physical differences that tend to go along with race.

    eg: type of hair; curly and thick, or thin and straight.
    facial differences, like the structure of the nose.

    The hair type isn't so important, but facial structural differences lead to the cross-race-effect.

    Is talking about race so fraught with sensitivities etc, that we can't discuss things like the cross-race-effect?

    I'm not always sure that talking about the CRE will get us anywhere, but then again it might.

    I think over hundreds of thousands of years, we evolved from forest dwelling chimp-type beings to the highly populated societies we have now.

    In an older culture like the neolithic people may have had, one would live in a tribe..I don't know, maybe 100 people. Everyone would know each other and recognise each other, and that is the context of how the mind/brain developed.

    You skip to the present and now, if you live in a town or city, if you go out you will see many people you have never seen before, and after that day, probably never see again.

    So facial recognition is important in the way we interact...the inability to easily recognise someone, or get a gestalt from looking at them, I think can lead to people feeling alienated, and disconnected from society..it can lead to paranoia, fear, and then hatred..

    This I think is one of the reasons for why racist behaviour arises in society; not the only reason, but an important one.
  • What could this fictional kidnap hostage do?
    This is assuming that the person is tech savvy not to mention you'd have to understand the current panic of the individual. Imagine a non-tech savvy person given the internet and not knowing how to work it? — Anaxagoras

    no, well, the kidnapper might have just assumed the hostage is tech savvy. They might be, they might not be. I'm not very tech savvy, myself.

    I don't know how the person would feel. In this scenario they would be treated without violence; given food, and there would be a bathroom, TV, radio etc.....they might well be alarmed, and disorientate, but after a few weeks they may settle down a bit.

    I read John Mccarthy's book 'An Evil Cradling', about his experience as a hostage in Syria(I think)...he very much had a bad time, over a few years...but in this case, the hostage would have a lot better environment...I just wondered what they might do on the internet...given that there might be no way to get any actual rescue going for themselves.
  • Why is racism unethical?
    ↪Bitter Crank


    most people just get on with life probably....

    But this just leads them to develop very basic world views I would guess...a world view like a shed, partly made in a factory by the media...compared to something more fleshed out, strong and useful like a house.

    Take the idea that too much salt in your diet, is bad for you. I read an article in Scientific America* which basically said this claim "has little bases in science"...based upon bad science, and a discussion about this on another forum someone said it was a myth that perpetuated because it was a simple thing to say, believe, and a simple thing to change about one's diet.... a nice simple message for politicians to preach etc...

    most people are quite happy to parrot this myth, and it even gets to the point where major medical organisation pedal this myth, like the NHS.

    To over turn this myth in the population there has to be some scepticism about how society is presented as working....how certain narratives in mainstream media perpetuate the idea that governments are actually competent; that democracy is somehow a real thing, rather than just another myth with hints of something real to them, that the media itself presents actually what is going on in the world.
    If myths as simple as the salt one go unchallenged, and can't be overturned, because most people just get on with life..then what else can't be overturned?
    The article(been a while since I read it all) states that too little salt can actually lead to heart attacks, and yet the NHS is quite happy to tell people to cut down on salt who every they are, without even an individual consultation.


    *
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-end-the-war-on-salt/
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    people might use the term 'objective reality'; I was just asking if anyone might post what they thought would be a good definition for that term.

    Don't worry, you are making me consider my use of the term 'objective', and whether I have been using it in any really useful way, by saying I don't believe in an objective reality.
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    Well now you are using 'objective' in the same way you were using 'absolute' before. Are there different kinds of reality? Different grades? Really real reality, and maybe-waybe reality? — unenlightened

    no in that post I didn't use the word 'objective' to mean anything in particular. I was just asking for any other ways in which 'objective reality' could be defined, and what 'objective reality'' would mean then.
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    Where did that 'absolute' come from? What meaning does it have in this context? 'Absolute' is a word I cannot find a use for in this context. — unenlightened

    I know..

    If the only definition that is possible for 'objective reality' is that which comes by forming a consensus of what happened with other people, then that's just how it is.

    How is any other definition of 'objective reality' possible?
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    ↪unenlightened


    yes, I realise there has to be an actual useful definition of 'objective' and 'subjective', and they can be useful concepts.
    But you mentioned
    Either there has been a supernova, or there has not. That is objective, and not a matter of opinion. — unenlightened

    But how would we know whether there had been or not, without some evidence?
    What does it mean for a supernova to have happened in an objective way?
    This is the crux really. I don't believe that absolute objectivity can really exist, not even for God...but people seem to conclude that there is via a sort of common sense line of thinking...
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    ↪ssu

    if someone considered them selves a solipsist then I would probably assume that they prefer abstract logic as a way to view reality, rather than base their view of reality on how they really feel about it, and be honest with themselves, about how they view other people for instance.
    The the situation is similar in those who end up believing that there is no such thing as 'free will'.....and I struggled with that for a long time....the best way out of that trap is just to be honest with yourself, and ask yourself if you 'feel' like to have choices in the world, and that you can freely make those choices to some extent.
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    Not sure what your point is here. Can you explain in other words? — ssu

    well, I was just reiterating what I said earlier, really.

    A person might be trying to claim that there is an actual objective way to view reality.

    And I give an extreme example that a supernova viewed by thousands of scientists, still leads to an subjective view that the supernova happened.

    And the other person seems to make an appeal to common sense, and say that no body would question that the supernova had taken place, or at least something took place that looked like a supernova, and they use this appeal to common sense to justify that it was possible to have an absolute objective view of reality if enough people formed consensus about what was witnessed..
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    Well, many use 'science' and 'scientific' as an argument where it shouldn't be used. Scientism is the best example of this misuse or improper use of science or scientific claims. Usually it comes out of ignorance about the subject at hand. — ssu

    yes, if I used my argument about the supernova then the person I am trying to counter would just claims that my argument is 'absurd'...it is only absurd in that if a supernova happened in this way in real life, then nobody would really question it...but I wouldn't be using that argument as a way to show that it would happen, but just as an analogy.
  • A collective experience is still subjective, isn't it.
    What I don't like is that some people take the utilitarian and pragmatic view of 'objectivity' in science and roll it out to other arguments to try to show that there is a more absolute objective perception of reality that is possible...

    That isn't logical.
  • Is my argument that it is impossible for two things to share no similarities at all sound?
    I would argue your case by saying that one thing they have in common is that they can be compared to each other at all.
    Another way of putting this is assume that A, B and C are real objects. They can be compared to each other to assess their differences, because they are in the same realm/universe/reality....if they didn't have this in common somehow, then you couldn't compare them to each other.
  • "Ideology Of Mass Consumption"
    ↪Bitter Crank


    yes, automated production; either 3d printing, and/or robots etc, is really going to change the way society works...what will become of the consumer society?
    Some jobs will still need humans to do, like designing, the entertainment industries, medical areas, science/research etc....so I think that there will still have to be a financial structure, whereby people at the bottom get a universal wage, whether they work or not, and the people in vital jobs, will be able to afford mansions, perhaps mansions on the moon for example...that's if technology gets that far.
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