First of all (to be completely clear), I believe systemic racism DOES EXIST. And existing now, therefore it has existed for at least since the time of the beginning of the slave trade. It is perhaps the largest, worst, and most sustained crimes in world history. It was so evil and devastating that the effects are still being experienced over 150 years after the official end of slavery in the United States.

If it was even possible for White American authorities and capitalists to have rectified the situation regarding former slaves in the years after the civil war ended is a debatable point. (How much is one human life worth? Existentially and in terms of money? How about a million human lives?) But the clear fact is that the overall situation was definitely NOT made even remotely fair for those of African ancestry at the time by “those in power”.

From that point in time and space to the present moment in the USA, there was and is a lot going on. Some improvements, some backsliding or regression, some of a “mixed-bag” situation regarding race relations and “equal treatment” or whatever term one could use to express some basic standard of fairness. So to get a view of the “big-picture” (stretching over hundreds of years and many continents), some abstraction (or imagination, if you prefer) is perhaps necessary or helpful.

One could (unfortunately and sadly) name dozens of racially unfair practices. From redlining to “profiling” to voter disenfranchisement to lower pay for the same job, etc. And also sad to say, these are not historical aberrations from the distant past. They are current realities and issues.

To sort through this pile of unfair (to put it mildly) practices, one could perhaps put them into two large groups or “piles” for purposes of trying to understand the overview in an abstract way, as mentioned above. Both “piles” describe the continued exploitation of blacks* or people of color (and those of other or mixed races who may consider themselves as part of a “black family”) after the supposed end of slavery. The two prongs to be described offer a type of dualism, or of a “one-two punch” (so to speak) against blacks in the USA as a whole.

For the sake of simplicity and clarity, I will call these extremely broad classifications of racism “The Goodies” and “The Baddies”. These two names do not necessarily denote whites as “good”, and blacks as “bad”. There is however, a strong element of that thought throughout BOTH prongs of systemic racism.

So now, some definitions of the terms The Goodies and The Baddies.

The Goodies. By this I mean (in a blanket statement) all that The Powers That Be (TPTB) (mainly white, male, and wealthy... to be perhaps overly general) wanted, but simultaneously judged to be illict in some way, particular activities and goods. It is the “forbidden fruit”. From sex to drugs to gambling to guns, the list goes on. This refers to whatever was forbidden by law or Bible or social conventions (or some combination of those), but still greatly desired. In a nutshell, this is an example of the classic “not in my backyard” NIMBY thinking and acting. The black ghettos were over time made into a de facto nighttime amusement park for those from so-called proper backgrounds and positions. Keeping the white bedroom communities pure, and going slumming in the less-developed poor Black areas whenever the mood struck.

The Baddies. Of course, the existence of the activities described above are unfair and hypocritical enough. But (not surprisingly) it doesn’t end there. Everything has its price. The Buddha described ignorance as an unending cycle of greed and aversion, of desire and hatred. So comes the flip side of the systemic racist coin. The Baddies refers to the punishment meted out to those involved in the business of supplying and satisfying the eternal and repressed lust described previously. Because, despite the overwhelming demand and the continued existence of these “illegal activities”, they are by the standards and laws of TPTB worthy of punishment.

Hence, a “justice system” (the term would be laughable if it didn’t have such tragic effects) that is OVERWHELMINGLY and DISPROPORTIONATELY focused on people of color. From police officers to lawyers to judges to prison owners and operators and the millions of others (of all races) employed to assist the process. It is an actual and literal INDUSTRY. This much is indisputable. Now, of course there are the truly guilty and dangerous individual criminals (of any and other races) prosecuted by this system. That is obvious. This gives the institution its validity and understandable authority. No problem with that aspect, for the most part. But the problem comes from the legal institutions made into FINANCIAL INDUSTRIES, feeding on the bodies of people of color, and those in their families. There are indeed good police officers, lawyers, and judges. But they are swimming upstream against a strong current. And it is difficult not to be infected when swimming in a river of garbage.

Now, obviously there is no ABSOLUTE distinction between Blacks and Whites here. There are millions of mixed race. There are White drug dealers and pimps. There are Black Federal Judges. This is so obvious that it hardly needs mentioning. We are trying to get a relative view here, not an absolute rule.

One could also draw many parallels between the internal American-USA forms of exploitation and racism, with the externally and outward-directed phenomenon of US Imperialism, especially after WWII.

It is like slavery never ended... it just changed form.

And has spread with little resistance or regard for whom it hurt. So that now, this is not a Black* American problem. It is a virus threatening the health of the entire global population.

( * I have never been completely comfortable with the terms “black” and “white” to describe entire races of people. These terms are simplistic to the point of being problematic. Personally, I have never seen a completely white nor a completely black person. But that is for another discussion).

As a possibly humorous aside... When I hear someone say that it is morally wrong (or weak or whatever) to vote for either candidate of the two dinosaur political parties (which I’m no fan of, FWIW), I think of a scenario where a few people are driving around late at night. They realize that they are hungry, and luckily find an open fast food drive-through. When ordering the food, someone pipes up to the brightly colored clown-shaped intercom, “I’ll have the rack of lamb with mint sauce! What wine would you recommend with that?” :snicker:

Answer to your first question: I would like to see Kamala Harris chosen.

Partly for the reasons you listed, 0...but also because I think the traditional role of the VP nominee is to do some serious ass-kicking while the top of the ticket sticks with the high ground. (Except for Trump, who lives in the sewers.) Kamala can kick ass with the best of 'em. She will make Trump's VP (I suspect it will not be Pence) look like a chump...and will lash out at Trump for all the mistakes he will make. — Frank Apisa

Interesting! Personally, I could live with the choice of Harris. (Though Joe hasn’t called me yet to get my thoughts on the issue.) You think DT will drop Pence as VP? Could be... Who might the GOP VP nominee be then, one wonders? Someone even more obedient? Cuter? A woman to match up strategically with Biden’s choice?

It was kind of hard. The cultural background of having a pluralistic political system makes it hard to get around voting for someone you think is total shit just so someone worse doesn't get into office. A few posts before I mentioned I never voted against someone. I have taken voting more seriously in years populism was rising but I still voted for what I wanted and not strategically. — Benkei

Well, one would be fortunate to live within such a system. I’m envious, totally green jello, lol. I imagine that there is abusive / dysfunctional family dynamic among the US voters. I think loyalty / imprinting / bonding with one’s family, community, and country is instinctual, or almost so. It’s very traumatic to break apart from that, and one generally doesn’t do so for a lark. Few relish being thought of as a traitor or ungrateful or whatever. How does one take control of a sinking ship controlled by armed robotic people? Mutiny on the Titanic Death Star.

You're not obliged to wear a mask except in public transport and nobody cares about your hobbies. :yum:

Unskilled American? How about your English language skill? It's not in short supply here but tutoring could be a low entry job for most native speakers. — Benkei

Cool! Just made plane reservations... :lol: I don’t speak English, but I speak American very bitchingly! As for a job, I was just kind of hoping to live off of public welfare. (just kidding).

More random Biden and 2020 USA election thoughts...

1. Two questions: Who do you think Biden WILL pick for VP nominee? And who do you WANT as VP?

Personally, I would love to see Elizabeth Warren as VP. At first, I was somewhat bitter about Bernie Sanders not getting the nomination, and I wondered about Warren’s “commitment to the cause”, or whatever. But now viewing in “pragmatic mode”, one imagines that she could provide about as much progressive thinking as Biden could handle, lol. (And as much as the DNC would approve of. She would have to compromise, and seems flexible but firm in her ideas IMHO). As for who Biden will end up picking, he might be leaning toward Kamala Harris. Admittedly, she does provide some balance to Biden, being a younger (though very experienced) black woman on the west coast who might possibly be more of a “team player” who isn’t as difficult to predict (or reign in, lol) as Warren, who seems to generate policy ideas even in her sleep. (But that’s why I like her).

2. Who believes the election process needs a severe overhaul? I do. The whole Electoral College process of “the winner takes all” completely encourages the current two-party system. Coincidence? Hmm... Lol. I’d like to see something like the primary voting method, where once over a certain minimum, the votes are divided proportionally. Not an easy task to reform the election process. And sure to generate at least a dozen different positions on every proposal. (Can’t please everybody. Or anybody, sometimes). But IMHO, it is an overhaul long overdue.

Radical idea: allow multiple candidates from a particular party to run in the general Presidential election. To counteract the likelihood of “splitting the vote”, award the winner of each party all the votes for anyone running in that party. For instance in the upcoming election, both Biden and Sanders would run as Democrats against Trump (and against anyone else who wanted to run as a Republican. And any other parties, too). On a per state level, whoever got more votes would take the state. If Biden won Florida, but Bernie won more states overall, then Bernie Sanders would get Florida and the other “Biden states”.

Now, it would be nice IMHO to combine this radical idea with the above-mentioned Electoral College reform. However, I’m not exactly holding my breath.

3. Casualty calculus. As a theoretical and possibly pragmatic exercise, let us imagine the difference between the actual number of USA corona virus deaths under the Trump administration, and the imagined or estimated number of deaths that would have occurred under the Obama/Biden years, assuming the same general circumstances. Definitely NOT hard proof of anything. But it may give one pause...

4. If I would have known when starting this thread that it would have gotten so contentious and well... political, then I would have discussed something more innocuous. Like global warming. :sweat:

So, I think in the meantime I agree with it being better to vote for Biden next fall, but... — Benkei

There... was that so hard? :grin:

What then? I'm afraid that for too many Americans "not Trump" is the goal and once they have that everything is back to the corporate stranglehold on politics. What's the game plan in the long run? Aside from the obvious and just moving en masse to the Netherlands. — Benkei

But seriously... Yes, I agree that the Clinton-Obama-Biden status quo has holes so big you could sail a corona cruise ship through it while still getting a tan. That’s why Bernie came within sprinting distance of the nomination, despite the trenches dug in front of him by the DNC. To be speculative, in the USA now there seems to be a battle going on that is on the edge of subconsciousness. A struggle between those that want to continue to ramp up the American Empire, and those that want the USA to be an accountable and functioning world citizen country. Thanks for your mention of the doughnut economic model. At first I thought it was a program of breakfast pastries for all, but there is sound thinking behind it, somewhat akin to the Green New Deal in general. Who knew those ancient Taoists and Buddhists had a clue with that balanced Golden Mean stuff? They didn’t even have the Internet! Must have been a lucky guess, lol.

Which goes back to the idea of the US empire. Any possible limits imposed on Empire-think just simply don’t compute to its adherents. Bigger! Faster! More! Conquer the earth and all its people! It’s Darwinian science people! (At least I imagine it is... the school textbooks ripped out the theory of evolution).

(Oh BTW, I would like to move to the Netherlands. How’s the immigration/refugee policy there for unskilled Americans who like to play loud heavy metal, and think masks are for the weak? :joke: )

Or.. creepy Yoda... ? — Baden

:nerd: ha! (But please don’t start a meme duel that can have no winner, lol. Now excuse me while i search dankmeme.com...)

And now, a short musical interlude... (pardon if this was already posted.)



Quite a graceful dancer and singer. Had no idea. No snarkasm intended! :snicker: (Perhaps this is a fitting response for the POTUS continually using REM’s music, despite their outspoken attempts to stop it.)

Interesting thought... reprogramming our minds, washing out the brainwashing, so to speak. In some ways, I think I’ve tried something similar. And still am almost daily. For whatever it is worth, chanting seems to help me connect with what could be called “the original mind” or “sky above the clouds, the sea beneath the waves”. Like for example in this video:

Thank you kindly, sir. :pray:

(From a baseball scandal 100 years ago, to a current political one... history repeats itself. Um, kinda.) Scene: A small girl (protected by a face mask and a watchful parent) approaches a lawyer and bodyguard-encircled Mr, Biden. She speaks. “Say it ain’t so, Joe. Say it ain’t so!”

Biden thoughtfully considers, and replies: “The malfeasance manifested here is notable for its incongruity, bar none. At least that’s what my Grandpa always said”. The girl is naturally speechless after hearing these words of wisdom.

Meanwhile many miles away in an oval-shaped office, a man dances gleefully like Rumplestiltskin, while singing and muttering “got ya now, creepy Joe... the end is coming fast, and you’re just too slow!”

Bernie would make a better VP than I would. I humbly accept the nomination for POTUS. — Bitter Crank

:lol: The whole enchilada? Nice! Because the latest polls have you 9 points above Biden. Good news: you can campaign from your basement. Bad news: if you win, you have to move to a new house. And the previous owner really smelled up the place bad!

Yep, Biden can seem rather self-serving. Don’t know if he took lessons from “Slick Willie” Clinton or not. :cool:

Maybe she was intimidated by those out there who would try to tear her down, or by Biden and the DNC themselves, and the implications for her ever having a career, but in the end the thought of the guy who sexually assaulted her (if he did) becoming President became too much to bear. That's perfectly plausible. — Baden

Very possibly true. If a mugger will shoot someone to steal a mere cellphone, and of course politicians have had people eliminated for getting in the way of their plans. She has a lot to lose. But, to play devil’s advocate, there is possibly a tremendous amount for her TO GAIN right now. Money, fame, book deals. Slush money from the RNC, and hush money from the DNC??? Speculation... sure. But just as possible. I don’t know what to believe. Somebody is viciously lying. Not a good situation, but probably politics as usual.

But thanks for your response and for other comments, which I agree with. :up:

No, I don't think it is psychopathology. I loathe Trump; I dislike Biden. BUT, by and large, both parties and both candidates are rational servants of the class to whom they are indebted. Neither Trump or Biden is going to piss off the capitalist elite by doing anything rashly destructive to their interests.

Third party? I wish there was a third party of strength and substance. It would have to be very large and very effective indeed to push out both the democrats and republicans, and we don't have a parliamentary system, so winning some seats doesn't help much.

Not only are we stuck in a possibly long lasting pandemic, we're stuck in a global climate crisis and we have the misfortune of being born into mature and hegemonic, maybe late stage capitalism. Being late stage capitalism doesn't mean they'll be going anywhere soon. We are stuck, we are fucked. Short of the revolution or Econo-eco-politico-socio-religio-etcio collapse, nothings going to change — Bitter Crank

:up: Definitely! Agreed. So how about this... Bernie Sanders/Bitter Crank 2020 independent ticket. And don’t say you’re too busy! (Unless you work in a hospital, grocery store, or as an Internet forum moderator, lol).

Maybe it's a politically motivated false accusation; it should not end the campaign (it should be investigated asap due to the public's need for accurate information about their candidates IMO). But the fact that democratic loud and bleeding hearts are exceptionally silent on this is just loathsome. You can't kick up an ultimate fuss about rape-culture and then not look stupid when you do a full speed 180 the moment it's no longer convenient...

Long story short, Biden is at this point as difficult a sell as Hillary Clinton was, but probably worse. Trump will probably have less support this go-round, I'm just afraid it won't be enough to counteract the hoards of disenfranchised and dissatisfied potential democrats, who once more, will vote third party, or Trump, out of raw desire to spite the DNC and its self-serving system. — VagabondSpectre

Yep. Well said. About a year ago, I thought Trump had the advantage. Then a few months ago, Bernie looked like he could win it. Then Biden took the nomination, and Trump bungled the virus response. So Joe was looking like the favorite. The 2020 presidential election is a greased pig. (fishfry calling for HRC to run in 5,4,3,2,1... :blush: )

"WhY sAcriFiciNG 1000 ViRgINs oN tHe AlTaR oF CThULhU iS nOt As BAD aS a sECoND TruMP PreSideNCY, aND wHy iM voTinG for BiDeN" — VagabondSpectre

Darn... thought this was a link to a NY Post story with lots of photos, lol.

(Some random thoughts, opinions, questions, and possibly a few facts about the Biden scandal... )

1. RAPE, SEXUAL ASSAULT, AND HARASSMENT ARE BAD, ILLEGAL, AND WRONG. THOSE COMMITTING THEM SHOULD BE PUNISHED. (Just want to be crystal clear about that).

2. Damn... 1993 was a looooong time ago. @Shawn , were you even born then? Lol.

3. If I’m getting the story (or whatever) straight, Ms Reade at the time (in 1993) filed a complaint about inappropriate shoulder touching, unwanted closeness, and the like. (No surprise here, Joe has been on video countless times doing similar creepy things to numerous women, unfortunately.). This would definitely qualify as harassment. BUT... no PUBLIC mention of any rape or sexual assault by Ms Reade until a couple months ago. Why?

4. In the USA, a person is considered innocent until proven guilty. These are serious accusations, of course. Accusations that would warrant a prison sentence if true. There should be a serious inquiry or trial. Public testimony under oath.

5. Fortunately or not, there are only two people who saw what transpired that day in question. And one them doesn’t have the memory capacity he used to.

6. Let’s suppose that Biden is forced to step down from the nomination because of his actions. Should Trump be likewise be forced to not run for a second term, because of his multiple sexual assault accusations (which he has gleefully admitted to)?

7. Like many here, I have wanted Bernie Sanders all along. But I get the impression that the DNC would rather have a wounded and tarnished Biden over a man who is willing to upend the medical, insurance, and pharmaceutical industries. Sanders is not a puppet on a string, much to their dismay.

8. I’m definitely NOT voting for Trump. He is indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands of US citizens, imho. (On top of his other bad characteristics and actions). Who I vote for, or if I even vote at all, remains to be seen. The system is broken, and it is depressing and nauseating. I am not sure if those living in countries other than the USA really can completely feel that. Though I appreciate any objective and thoughtful critique.

Lately I’ve been wondering... with all the storms flying around Trump’s head (most of them self-created) if in a moment of frustration at the definite prospect of losing badly in November... that Donald will just petulantly announce that he refuses to run in the presidential election. (And there are perhaps many on the Republican side that might like to see just that, imo.)

He just seems like the type to prefer quitting to losing and being embarrassed. There is no substantial evidence that he has ever given a rabbit poop about anyone outside his Game of Thrones family. Plus, he seems burnt out. It takes a lot of energy to bungle the handling of a pandemic. Shifting blame is exhausting. Maybe he can get some rest after quitting, take up watercolor painting, and return to his previous light-hearted self.

The novelty factor of a Trump presidency has completely worn out for everyone, most of all for DT. Alas, the Orange sun is setting... Let’s stand together to be warmed by its diminishing light (at a proper distance, of course.)

Let the American people know about all the relevant facts... then let them decide.

Knowing the facts requires Sanders/Warren on the national stage for the sole purpose of show and tell. They both know what they are talking about.

A free and fair election must include a well-informed electorate. — creativesoul

:up: (for this and for your other comments) Testify brother! (or sister!)...

I am (like you) tired of this reactionary, defensive position of “electability”. Which is both cowardly and complete bullshit. The DNC and its investors CLEARLY never had the slightest interest in Bernie Sanders rocking their yacht. They have got a good thing going, even playing second fiddle, and are not going to let some Old Testament prophet reincarnation or “Angry Old Man” screw it up. They would rather lose the WH to their crony Chump, than win with Sanders. In common parlance... NeverBernie. Well... forget that.

So when Bernie is denied the nomination, I truly hope he runs as an independent. And totally fvcks “the system” and everything else up. Including people’s minds. Maybe the virus shutdown (as unfortunate and tragic as it is) will give people time to really take stock of the situation and their lives.

Let it all hang out Bernie! No more pussyfooting. No more playing the Dumocrats hypocritical game, as a “yes man” for Neo-Libral almighty dollar power. Retool your message to show that you are the only true alternative to more status quo. Which is a choice between orange tapioca and beige tapioca. (Tapioca tainted with date-rape drugs so they can get their way.)

(If this perhaps sounds angry or bitter... this ain’t nothing! Compared to upheaval, riots, and looting... this is a polite kiss on the cheek. THE INFRASTRUCTURE OF THE USA IS ITS PEOPLE... AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS ROTTING. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. I am pacifist, so I’d prefer an equitable and peaceful solution. Though I’m guessing that the Pharaoh won’t budge until the plague hits his family. And this is about more than the virus, to be clear).

And Bernie... if you don’t win this time, then you cleared a path for someone else like you next time. Go out with a bang that will make a difference, and be a mentor to the new progressives.

Big picture, small moves.

Bernie Sanders supporter here. Put “Trump” in this poll, by which I mean a vote against the corrupt DNC and against Joe “I love me some Black votes Peoples!” Biden.

But the odds are equally split whether I will vote Chump, Green Party, write-in “Bernie Sanders” in magic marker all over the ballot, or stay home. Tired a dis shit...

Go Independent Bernie! Don’t kiss the DNC’s royal ass again. Rupture the “party” and encourage independent Conservatives to rupture the GOP as well. Time for Progressives to grow up, rebel, and move out of DNC daddy and mommy’s leaky basement. This is about more than winning the next 4 years. It’s about the big picture. The “big ugly dying meta-imperialist wage-slave culture” picture (or whatever else you want to call it) that we can’t look at very long without getting physically sick and needing some mindless entertainment to make it all seem to go away for a while.

So who might that [VP] be? :chin:
— jgill

I'm hoping, Amy Klobuchar OR Elizabeth Warren, so they'll be able to run as 'Mr and Mrs America'.

Warren would be my hope. It will work to assuaging the women voters who were bitterly disappointed by her exit. And, she's brilliant and a person of high integrity. But it will depend on whether she's able to play second fiddle. — Wayfarer

Warren as Biden’s VP?Jesus... that is a depressing thought. To me, anyway. Would seem like such a settling, if perhaps not a selling-out. (Yea, I know. There are no saints in the city... )

Bernie just got the endorsement of Jesse Jackson. Will help cut into Biden's popularity among African-Americans. Will be a bitter, divided convention. Hillary to the rescue. That's my prediction. DNC will nominate Hillary. The only possible conclusion to the long American Clintonian psychodrama. — fishfry

Getting Jesse Jackson’s blessing is simply huge for Sanders. No two ways about it. Forget “beating Trump” (and the whole giant health care issue) for just a moment... let’s say the entire election is between Biden and Bernie. Bernie seems to have plans and intentions that would help the working class (“poor”) and African-Americans far better than Joe Biden. Not really even close, imo.

I don’t see HRC anywhere near the election. She might scare voters away. Where I see her showing up possibly is on Biden’s cabinet. She serves a few years as Secretary of Something or other. Then retires and writes of her triumphant return in her memoirs. Can’t wait! :yawn:

Otherwise, it is time for other new parties to join the fray. Like a “United Progressive Party”. UPP... that’s kinda catchy... :grin:
— 0 thru 9
:up: :up: — 180 Proof

Thanks for your support! But this new fledgling party may need a place to meet for now. How big is your living room? :rofl:

This comparison is unjust. Sanders is by all means not fixated of nationalizing everything in the market. Only some more regulation and much needed higher taxes on the ultra-rich. His policies should lead to higher GDP growth in the long term if that's the only thing that matters to Joe or Sandy. — Shawn

Yes. America’s “infrastructure” is its PEOPLE. That is primary and undeniable. Then secondarily: its roads, bridges, power grids, and other physical structures. America’s main infrastructure, the people, are on the verge of collapse, imho. The American people (tired, angry, overworked, sick, under-appreciated, under-represented, etc) are a rusted-out bridge about to fall down. Surprising to some perhaps, the young know this better than most.

Furthermore, I'm tired of having the stigma of privatized prisons in the US. This is something spawned out of some lunacy and needs to stop. — Shawn

:up: Definitely! That racist, classist money grab has gone on too damn long. It is an authoritatian capitalist nightmare. But unfortunately, it is a nightmare that is too easy to ignore if you are not specifically affected by it. That is perhaps why it has hardly been mentioned in the debates.

When huge American and multinational corporations have been using the enormous power of their own free speech to influence all those citizens that the corporations themselves take advantage of...

There's a big problem in the system... monetary corruption of politicians and tremendous corporate influence on public policy. Joe Biden and Obama and Hillary and all the rest of the 'establishment' people on both sides -republican and democrat - have and will continue to err on the side of the huge corporate profits. The only 'difference' between the two is talk... the actual policies that have been disastrous for so many Americans could have been put in place from either side... and were often put in place from both during the transfer of power or just prior to.

If Joe wins it will be more of the same. If Trump wins it will be more of the same.

Joe's a bit more palatable in general. — creativesoul

:up: Yep. I agree with that. The two parties are mirror images of each other. One hand washing the other. Good cop (Democratic party), bad cop (Republican). Trump is nauseating to me, but there’s at least one upside if he wins. The Democratic side would potentially be open for a takeover in four years by a Bernie follower. (Assuming Bernie has retired by then... )

Otherwise, it is time for other new parties to join the fray. Like a “United Progressive Party”. UPP... that’s kinda catchy... :grin:

Prediction:

If Sanders doesn't get the nomination (if Biden is shoe-horned in), then Trump will win a second term.

This is arguably what happened in 2016... — VagabondSpectre

Yes, I would tend to agree with that assessment. History happening twice. The first time as comic tragedy. The second time as tragi-comedy. (Or vice versa).

I’m as opposed to Trump as always, but now I can really FEEL why he was elected, and why he might be again. The anger and frustration in the pit of the stomach that has no place to go except online forums and (every few years) the ballot box. Trump tapped into that Kundalini energy of voters, and drilled it like the biggest oil well ever discovered. And is drilling still. Bernie tapped into that too, though in a different way.

But how “Park Avenue” Donnie ever got to be the voice of the working class is a trick that would have amazed both George Orwell and Harry Houdini.

Pretty sad that the man gets framed as a weirdo at the slightest physical contact with a child. — Tzeentch

Oh exactly! The world definitely needs more love right now. A whole lotta love. I really hope the upcoming debate with Bernie starts with a long and tender hug between the two men. And some deep and honest emotional sharing. It might even start a trend! :hearts:

Yes on both counts; I'm on the mend, and the surgery didn't involve the vocal cords. The tonsil and lymph nodes were the sites of the malignancy, and the pathology report showed no cancerous cells in any of the margins. A 'robotic' system was used to remove the internal tissue (the "Davinci surgical robot") which is entirely under the control of the surgeon, and then the external surgery (removing lymphatic tissue) was the traditional knife and fork method. It took about 4 hours. Radiation is not necessary, ditto for chemo--for the future, as far as they can tell, but no guarantees. — Bitter Crank

Glad to read that you are on the mend! And that you didn’t need radiation or chemo... :smile: :up:

I had a fantasy of the surgical robot getting loose and stalking humans in the hospital hallways, over-powering them, and forcing its favorite surgical procedures on them. — Bitter Crank

:rofl: Coming soon to a theater... or hospital... near you! (I’m thinking maybe Patrick Stewart as the voice of the surgery-happy CGI robot. Or Judy Dench. Maybe the robot can have an automatic-type weapon that shoots horrendously overpriced and jagged prescription pills?).

Here’s an interesting challenge concerning Joe Biden. But the challenge is for you, not him.

See if you can watch this entire compilation video of Joe Biden’s love of hair sniffing. The first one to be able to get through the entire 7-minute plus video wins! (I had to shut it off after a minute or so. I hope to make it through eventually... )

Winner gets a chance for a visit and a long hug from Joe himself! (Contest not valid in Utah).

Ok... go!

Yikes... did CNN commentator Hilary Rosen stand on the railroad tracks and cause a train wreck, with her comments to Bernie Sanders supporter Nina Turner, and the “non-apology” that followed.

I don’t think that Rosen is officially connected (or is / was she?) to Biden’s campaign. But still, she did Joe no favors with such a tone deaf and haughty attitude. Being “political” doesn’t necessarily mean being “polite” or “politically correct”. But a little diplomacy goes a long way...

But getting to the fine print... Ok, fair enough. You either don’t think Bernie can win, or if the unthinkable happened, it would be like having a former Hippie as president, throwing dollar bills and big doobies (marijuana) out of the Federal Reserve window to his crazed, brainwashed snowflaky fans. With Bob Dylan and the remnants of the Grateful Dead (including some holy relics from Jerry Garcia), Snoop Dogg with a reformed Public Enemy, performing a free concert on the White House lawn in some bizarre combination of Woodstock and the March on Washington. Bernie is inaugurated wearing a tie-dyed shirt, with Noam Chomsky standing next to him. (Ok, maybe that is going too far for a joke, lol. Anyway...)
— 0 thru 9

Ok no totally I would love that. It's his Marxism not his hippiedom. I wasn't an official hipped but I certainly identified with them. And we were all against the war. I marched on Washington. I loved the hell out of this paragraph. You reached right into my forgotten past and hit the nail on just about every point. I saw Chomsky speak against the war. I love the crazed hippie president image. I'm imagining Bernie as Fat Freddy from the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers. I was so into those comics. If Bernie was promising an actual return to the hippie ethos I'd put on my tie-tie and beads and sign up for the whole program. — fishfry

:lol: Thanks for the response. Much appreciated, and funny. (But maybe don’t put the tie-dye shirts and love beads into the closet with mothballs quite yet, lol. Bernie still has a pulse, and perhaps his handlers will give him a syringe full of a mix of adrenaline, caffeine, and testosterone before the next debate with Joe Biden. If so, he will be frothing at the mouth. And make John the Baptist’s rant against King Herod sound like a “Tonight Show” monologue.)

Bernie must take Joe “off-script”. Biden has a hard enough time sounding coherent even when he is reading his lines correctly. In an impromptu and free-flowing argument, if Bernie were relentless, he could provoke Joe into saying some wild and outlandish quotes. Quotes that would be extremely memorable and damage Biden’s chances. Bernie has to transform the debate from a stately waltz into a mosh pit, basically. If Joe survives, well then it’s good practice for the next round...

On that we agree wholeheartedly. I hate partisanship. I believe the worst the Dems say about the GOPs and the worst the GOPs say about the Dems. I hate both parties. They both deserve to die.

In fact that's why we had a Trumpian populist insurgency in 2016 and now a Bernie populist insurgency in 2020. The centrist consensus isn't working and people are starting to notice.

And this week we see the establishment fighting back ... with Joe Biden? This senile and corrupt warmongering, civil-liberties-hating, tool of the banking industry? Do people even know who Joe Biden is? You can be sure Trump will remind us. — fishfry

Yep, agree with that. I could totally see Trump trying to weasel out of a possible Presidential debate with Bernie with some dismissive handwaving and excuses. For “Clueless Joe” on the other hand, he would clear his busy Tweeting schedule, and start licking his chops like a hungry dog.

(Let’s play a little game of “What If...” :chin: Warning: potential speculation / wishful thinking / hallucinations follow below.)

Barack Obama has obviously not so far given his endorsement to any of the Democratic candidates as of yet. He has said something like he is waiting to see how the process turns out, he doesn’t want to interfere, blah, blah... Ok, that’s fine. Completely understandable. Mr. Obama has a lot to potentially lose, if he makes the slightest miscalculation or says a (perceived) wrong word. He is perhaps viewed as a “Mr. Moderate”, and is best known for giving form to what became “Obamacare”, and lately, mildly criticizing people who call themselves “woke”.

But... Maybe... What if Mr. Obama, after almost 4 years out of public office, with some time to reflect on the current political landscape, and his role in creating it, is perhaps having some second thoughts? What if, come DNC convention time, Bernie Sanders is still alive and twitching, and just needs the slightest breeze to push him into the nomination?

And what if Mr. Obama, sitting is his chair of eminence as a respected (if perhaps not universally beloved) ex-president like a wise King Solomon, is asked to give his blessings on a candidate? What if he still harbors, in his heart of hearts, the slightest bit of that fire and idealism he showed in 2008? What if he thinks the times and circumstances have changed? What if maybe he has some tiny bitterness about the way his administration turned out or might be perceived now, especially with regard to the healthcare plan which (like it or not) still bears his name?

And what if he wants to be remembered as a bold trailblazer, rather than somewhat unfairly as a corporate team-player who played his part, got paid, and then comfortably retired? Isn’t that kind of anticlimactic? Is there a crucial second act left in this particular American life?

Would it then be worth it to Mr. Obama to bless Bernie with his endorsement, despite the almost certain grief and vicious criticism it would engender, even from Democrats?

Only if he really believes that it is the right move at the right time. And if he really wants to make a lasting change.

Otherwise known as a Trump-win since Democrats would be divided. — frank

Not necessarily. That’s the (somewhat understandable) reflex response, though. That’s your opinion, fair enough. Mine is that the situation has radically changed. This scenario probably won’t even happen, though.

This is a good delegate tracker.

Bernie up by about 8. But still counting SC. (This is like some bizarre sports tournament, lol)

Bloomberg's a cunt: he'll (probably) drop out - Wednesday(?) after conceding that his +half billion dollars barely bought him any delegates - and declare for Biden (all but guaranteeing a brokered convention & Superdelegate coronation). :mask: — 180 Proof

Yes, he’s probably not much help or inspiration to anyone. Well, the sooner Bloomers drops out the sooner then those incredibly annoying ads on YT of his will stop. Then we can return to mildly irritating insurance ads.

But seriously, even if Bernie gets jobbed and robbed there is still a chance... if he wants to risk it. He has the ace up his sleeve to run as an independent. I think his supporters would DEMAND it. Some other DNC people would almost have a coronary over it, and Biden and Co. would be fanning the flames accusing him of helping Chump, and worse. It could get ugly. (Like HRC throwing a tantrum, lol.) The very thought of tampering with the two-party race! Heresy! (Like Ross Perot never happened, or something). Oh well. That’s what “frenemies” are for. Bernie is trying to play by the “rules”. But if he gets the clear majority of delegates, he should get the nomination. The super delegates don’t (or should not) vote in that case. But who knows? We’ll see what shenanigans transpire...

To me, if he is forced to run as an independent, it’s simply a 3-person race. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. May the best person win... (and f’ it... break up the monopoly while he’s at it).

About about Amy Klobuchar... maybe she is not quite finished. Could someone pick her as a VP running mate? Lots of experience and smarts there... Maybe a good fit with Bloomberg? Or would they just clash? Perhaps somewhat like Elaine and Mr. Pitt (from an old Seinfeld episode)?

@Maw @180 Proof
Yes... very interesting. We have a close contest now. Like a slow motion horse race. Tuesday will tell us much.

Will Pete join with Biden to create a “Moderate Monster”?

Will Bernie and Elizabeth Warren be the “Progressive Pair”? (Assuming Warren can stop criticizing him for a moment, lol). Will Tom Steyer then back them, provided he can pretend not to be a billionaire, and make thousands of small donations? :yum:

How will Bloomberg do, and how long will he last? Will he be a spoiler? Or just act spoiled?

I’m not so certain I’d go so far as anarchism, but I tend in that direction. Definitely anti-statist. Mostly my guiding principle is liberty and freedom when it comes to politics, so I err on the side of personal responsibility rather than government coercion.

Im an American expatriate living in the Commonwealth. — NOS4A2

Ok, cool. Fair enough. Thanks for your reply. :smile:

And this is of course a huge problem which, even without global warming to worry about, will saddle the next generations of citizens with problems.

Running winning candidates isn't enough (though that is necessary). Several basic reforms are needed:

One, the members of the Supreme Court need to be rotated more often -- which means ending life-time appointments. Fixed terms would solve part of the problem. The court IS POLITICAL. It has to be knocked off its pseudo-august pedestal.

Two, eliminate the Electoral College. I realize it has a point, but direct election by the citizenry works for all the other elected positions.

Three, we need a genuine working class party -- not slightly more and slightly less conservative parties serving the interest of the ruling class.

Four, campaign financing must be socialized. Having someone with $30-40 billion dollars financing his own campaign (Bloomberg) and others scrounging for pocket change is obviously a crooked game. The conservative court laid down Citizens United for a ruling class reason. Citizens United needs to be undone.

We need to repair the gross economic inequalities which prevail in the United States. (Other countries will have to deal with their inequalities.). This means taxing wealth at a high rate. Maybe it should be enshrined in the constitution, so it can't be changed easily. The wealthy stayed wealthy even during periods of high taxation. — Bitter Crank

:up: This sounds most reasonable. It has my vote, for whatever it may be worth...

Just curious if anyone has any further input on this topic, based on recent events such as the Democratic primaries, etc. Personally, I’m even more convinced that the game is rigged... to put it bluntly. Thoughts?