I thought... Didn't the thread already establish that everyone is bad, evil, something like that...? — jorndoe

What about the Chinese, the Saudis, the Aussies, the Brunei, and the Dutch?

What's clearly needed is the much more firm, down-to-earth explanation that he's been possessed by the ghost of a long dead dictator. Much more reasonable. — Isaac

I read 's comment as witty, I guess not everyone did.

To cover up their crimes, some Australians have apparently converted to Buddhism and are calling Putin a “malevolent spirit” to deflect attention from themselves. — Apollodorus

Who are they?

Anyway, Putin has aired his thinking, not really new or anything, has already been suggested in this thread a few times.

:)

Again the NATO and Nazi things show to be partial rationales (at best), excuses.

Have to wonder if or to what degree the Russian parliament is on-board with this stuff.

Nothing new under the Sun? Loose cannon?

Putin compares himself to Peter the Great in quest to take back Russian lands (The Guardian; Jun 10, 2022)

^{Putin compared himself to Peter the Great, 350 years after the birth of the founder of the Russian Empire. Putin said Peter the Great's wars against the Swedish Empire were not conflicts of conquest but were taking back historically Russian land. While referring to the Battle of Narva in modern-day Estonia, Putin said it's fallen on him to take back and strengthen historically Russian lands. Speech seen as an appalling threat to neighbors.} :fire:

Ukrainian NATO membership was already conceded by both NATO and Ukraine (albeit not committed to official paper and stamped and sealed); bombs are still falling; OK, not going to cut it, not a peace-maker. — jorndoe

(↑ a month ago or something?) — jorndoe

No-NATO isn't a peace-maker, hasn't been for some time. Worked as an excuse for a bit, though, but not any more. Instead, Sweden and Finland are heading for NATO membership as a result of the invasion. Putin called out, and ought to quit the Ukrainian ruinage, looting, pilfering, killing, displacements, deportations, land-grabbing attempts, possibly creating a lot of haters that will take time to reverse.

, not atemporal.
And doesn't seem to have much to do with sentient all-creators.

The Ukrainian parliament fired their human rights commissioner for poor reports and such.

Ukraine Official Fired Over Handling of Russian Sexual Assault Claims (May 31, 2022)

On 31 May 2022, the Verkhovna Rada dismissed Denisova, with 234 deputies voting in favour of her dismissal. The main reason given was that she failed to facilitate humanitarian corridors and prevent Ukrainians under Russian occupation from being deported to Russia. Some deputies also accused her of making unverifiable statements about alleged sex crimes by Russian troops. — Lyudmyla Denisova (Wikipedia)

I think it makes perfect sense for Russia to have said that it had “no aggressive plans about Ukraine”, given that the problem was not Ukraine but NATO! — Apollodorus

What do you call Russia's activities then?

Ukrainian NATO membership was already conceded by both NATO and Ukraine (albeit not committed to official paper and stamped and sealed); bombs are still falling; OK, not going to cut it, not a peace-maker. — jorndoe

(↑ a month ago or something?)

You can have a temporal order without having a time associated with it. — Down The Rabbit Hole

Like before/after, earlier/later, past/now/future, ...? :brow:
You could have ordering (-1 < 0 < 1), but not temporal without time.
Unless I misunderstood something?

Here's a bit of spam...

How does atemporal sentience make less sense than any other atemporal chain of causation? — Down The Rabbit Hole

Rocks and bodies are spatial/object-like: left to right, top to bottom, front to back, movable, locatable, breakable (under conservation), ...

Eddies and minds/experiences are temporal/process-like: come and go, occurs, interruptible (interaction/event-causation), ...

^{Say, my supper is locatable, movable, breakable (spatial/object-like), my experiences thereof occur, are interruptible (temporal/process-like). Say, stomachs are spatial/object-like, left to right, and digestion (say, starting with chewing and salivating) occurs, comes and goes (temporal/process-like).}

• Suppose x is defined as non-spatial, "outside of space". Well, then x is nowhere to be found, no place. Cannot have any volume/area/length extent, not even zero-dimensional (like a mathematical singularity).
^{• objects are spatial, left to right, front to back, top to bottom, locatable, movable, breakable (under conservation)}

• Suppose x is defined as atemporal, "outside of time". Well, then x was/is nowhen, no simultaneity. No duration involved, cannot change, can't be subject to causation, can't interact, inert and lifeless (at most).
^{• processes are temporal, come and go, occur, interruptible (interaction/event-causation)}

The closest in the literature of not spatiotemporal seems to be abstracts, maybe like sterile inhabitants of Platonia.

Minds partake in the world, interact (both ways), are active, are parts of the world. Fairly uncontroversial in science (evidence-based) and philosophy. Special pleading no good.

Morals have to do with concern for each other.

If there is no law then how do you know what is right and what is wrong? — SpaceDweller

I don't think morals can be reduced like that. Even given such a law, in any given situation, you'd still have to figure out if following it is the right thing to do.
Axiomatizing morals don't seem to work well, not rule-bound as such, performative. It's on us, bound by autonomous moral agents.
The various trolley problems also show that there can be dilemmas without one specific right thing to do.
And we have some examples where moral awareness evolved.
Tedious. :)

Good engineering exists. — Varde

I'd say bad, mediocre, and good engineering exists.

I would say the best definition is something to the effect of, being/s that created the universe. — Down The Rabbit Hole

I guess sentient is implicit...?

^{(barring special pleading, atemporal sentience doesn't make much sense, hence asking)}

I thought... Didn't the thread already establish that everyone is bad, evil, something like that...?
I guess then a follow-up is: therefore...?

Words like Pegasus prompt us to differentiate fictional/imaginary and real.
The winged horse does exist (in stories) but just isn't real.

Seems to me the word "supernatural" can more or less be replaced with "unknown" without incurring any informative loss.
As an explanation, when has "supernatural" ever done away with ignorance/errors?

The Ameriguns (2021) by Gabriele Galimberti

Are you allowed to open-carry a flamethrower in the US? :chin:

The US president and an Ukrainian anarchist have something in common: they both see Putin's Russia against Ukraine as totalitarianism/autocracy against democracy. I imagine they disagree on a few other things, though.

https://warontherocks.com/2022/05/would-we-do-better-hubris-and-validation-in-ukraine/ — RogueAI

Yep, the numbers alone matter and Russia has them.
Similarly, Russia has an additional degree of freedom, being the attacker; the Ukrainians are already home.
We're talking fairly large populations here; I can see attrition leading to a lot of hate in the Ukrainian population.
Where things were supposed to improve, less corruption, less hate, more freedom, more opportunities for anyone, ..., Putin has instead ensured some regression.

30% information, 70% sarcasm and insults. — Xtrix

You might be a bit generous.

I'm not wading though these pages of muck to repost all the times you have played Nazi PR specialist, but you are welcome to search my posts for when I have called you out on it. Although probably don't bother as you wouldn't be able to read them correctly anyway. — Streetlight

Meanwhile, life goes on in Ukraine (for some at least), just a bit differently.

Bakhmut family with no gas or power cook outside (May 31, 2022)

Would it be worthwhile listing some peace-makers?
No NATO membership for Ukraine wasn't one apparently.
An obvious one is Putin taking his land-grabbing attempts down a notch, moving his troopers (and Nazi mercs) home, out of harm's way, well, if they also stop bombing.
...?

Mass Shootings Can Be Contagious, Research Shows (Aug 6, 2019)

After Uvalde, mass shootings continue over the weekend across the U.S. (May 29, 2022)

:o And legislators just keep sitting on their hands, as they've done for years. Expect more.

In the days before the shooting, posts featured a photo of a hand holding an ammunition magazine and another photo of two AR-15-style rifles
[...]
The gunman legally bought his weapons soon after his 18th birthday and days before the attack, law enforcement officials told state lawmakers — Texas elementary school shooting: What do we know so far? (May 27, 2022)

The conclusion is the same. I'm not seeing any of my Republican colleagues come forward right now and say, 'Here's a plan to stop the carnage.' So this is just normal now, which is ridiculous. — Cory Booker (May 25, 2022)

Why Roe v. Wade must be defended (May 14, 2022)

I suspect a mental health crises. — Moses

With someone like Ted Cruz being an elected official, you might be on to something.

Russia slashes rates in effort to cool rouble’s rapid ascent (May 26, 2022)

Doesn't seem to be a sign of a booming economy.
Demanding trade in rubles (oil, gas, whatever) might push the ruble up some?
What can Russian companies import? (Chinese toys?)

Filtration and forced deportation: Mariupol survivors on the lasting terrors of Russia’s assault (May 26, 2022)

Anyway, it's a land-grab alright, an attempted conquest, like an up-scaled "finders keepers". (As if Russia wasn't large enough already, must be hard to protect against the barbarians at the door.)
The diplomats (when not just for display) may have to wait until Putin's generals/strategists have worked out what they think is feasible, maybe after they've tried a few more things.
Ruinage, looting, killing, displacement, ...
Doubtful that Putin's Russia will pay up, but I'm not going to quit holding it to them either.

‘Putin’s terror affects everyone’: anarchists join Ukraine’s war effort (May 26, 2022)

They have a standing invitation, apparently.

We are fighting to protect the more or less free society that exists in Ukraine, without which there would be no space for activism or underground movements.
Putin’s terror is happening [in Ukraine] and it is indiscriminate. It is happening against every part of the population, but especially against the Russian-speaking parts of the population that Putin supposedly came here to liberate,
His regime is an ultraconservative, rightwing dictatorship that represses anarchists in Russia, the free press, LGBT networks. It scares even the most banal, grassroots initiatives, like animal rights activists. We see the conflict between Ukraine and Russia as a conflict between a more or less democratic state and a totalitarian one.
We have a strict screening process. We don’t want people who just come here to kill; we want them to understand what they are fighting for. — Dmytro

Putin has appropriated the word anti-fascist and he exploits it to justify his war. [Ukrainian] nationalists say if you’re anti-fascist, you’re pro-Russian, but that’s not the case.
I think both sides of the elite did a lot to create a situation whereby Ukrainians argue a lot about language and versions of history instead of how Kryvyi Rih Stal was privatised.
The cause of the war is the Russian Federation. — Movchan

If you are going to use historical precedence to justify your argument you ought to look at actual examples of US militia fighting against and being defeated by superior federal forces. — Maw

Waco started this war. Hopefully, Oklahoma would end it. The only way they’re going to feel something, the only way they’re going to get the message is, quote, with a body count. — McVeigh in prison in 2001

:o Ough ... chilling.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here — Isaac

It was fairly straightforward. I thought your response to , missed a bit, so I added it.

^{(I guess some may knowingly walk into a minefield and expect pity when a leg is blown off, others may or may not feel schadenfreude if those unfortunate people walked in there to blow others up. I'll abstain, but that's just me.)}

Don't bomb others' home. If you do, then don't expect them to just lie down and die. The Ukrainians aren't anyway.

Hm ... wondering ...

In what cases can "supernatural magic" not be replaced with "unknown" without incurring informative loss?
In what cases have "supernatural magic" as an explanation done away with ignorance/errors?
What does "supernatural magic" derive that's differentiable?
For that matter, is there anything that "supernatural magic" couldn't be raised to explain?

Such cases seem few and far between (if there are any).

As far as I can tell, it's not about "taking our guns away" (common slogan), but about regulation.
Especially for weapons that are for killing humans.
Maybe I've misunderstood the suggested legislation?

Does your passion for getting other people to die for your moral didactics know no bounds? — Isaac

The Russians (and their Nazi compadres) can head home, the Ukrainians are already home.
The Russians (and their Nazi compadres) have homes, the Ukrainians are running :fire: shorter.

Unless ... "You can check out any time you like / But you can never leave" ...

I Invented Gilead. The Supreme Court Is Making It Real.
Margaret Atwood
May 13, 2022

naturalistic accounts for abiogenesis — Paulm12

Incidentally just scrolled by ...

In Test Tubes, RNA Molecules Evolve Into a Tiny Ecosystem (May 5, 2022)

That is similar to the much-vaunted 'principle of causal closure', which is that every event has a physical cause. — Wayfarer

Just to nit-pick, I think says that physical effects have physical causes.

The big bang does not have falsification qualification — L'éléphant

If I remember right, it does. Something to do with recombination, that's fairly specific. Or, I guess it could just be shown that the universe isn't expanding after all, or only started expanding, say, 10 billion years ago. Or, a 100 billion-year-old galaxy could be found, ...
By the way, we already know that the theory only can go so far (at the moment), since it relies on relativity for the most part. If relativity was to be falsified, then it could take big bang with it.

(↑ edited a couple times, past my bedtime, Zzz)

For intelligent design to become a scientific model, there would have to be falsification criteria, the more the better.
For intelligent design to become of much use, it would have to (stabilize and) make reliable predictions.

^{By the way, I don't think it's in the cards that intelligent design can (ever) derive, say, the 10 commandments, that one should pray to the Sun for inspiration and atonement, that Muhammad was the (final) messenger of Allah, or whatever. That's the marked gap from these sorts of apologetics to the (elaborate) religions that have adherents.}

Gensler at least is trying to give people some guidance as to how to live ethically. — Marvin Katz

Yep. :up: Gensler's treatment is fair enough.

On the other hand, I'm thinking there's a kind of futility in devising such rules — not as rules-of-thumb, but as morality-defining rules.
(Another example could be the Hippocratic oath.)
So, we ought to cultivate and nurture moral awareness towards individual autonomous moral agency; easier said than done.

(Thanks much for the comment; will read the document you linked as time permits.)

Something like this, for instance. — Olivier5

You have 49.25% of this article left to read. The rest is for subscribers only.

I gather they're saying that Ukraine sort of happens to have been caught between

• democracies versus autocracies (e.g. Biden)
• "old world order" versus "new world order" (e.g. Jinping)

Not sure what such a new world would be (except Uyghur culture probably won't be invited).

So the best we can do is to accept that there are two objective realities. — Hillary

Don't think that can make sense.
What about, say, Nettles' and Applewhite's fantasies...?
There are such things as fiction, fantasies, imaginations, hallucinations, etc — things that aren't universal/extra-self, but experienced by someone nonetheless, right?
If people believe contradictory things, then it stands to reason that they can't both be right.
How would such contradictory things play out anyway?

The next master stroke of Putin is to revive the Russian car manufacturing industry and the much-ridiculed Moskvich sedan. Lessons in how to re-animated a corpse. — Wayfarer

The "good old days" :grin:

, well, if you think such claims are applicable to everyone/everything...

Maybe you could start providing claims (the more the better) that others can then go out and check? — jorndoe

Slap Trump in a dream, check if he has a bruise the next day, don't forget to apologize?

The mere telling is no proof no. But the experience is. — Hillary

The methodology of Carlos René Romero described at "Did Jesus Really Visit the Americas?" (Jul 2008)

Argument from inconsistent revelations (Aug 2018)

You're free to believe whatever, but you're not going to convince anyone else by this methodology.
Maybe you could start providing claims (the more the better) that others can then go out and check?

...

Correction, it's attributed to Wittgenstein, not sourced, here's my paraphrase:

Wittgenstein overhears someone saying “5, 1, 4, 1, 3. Done.”
He asks what that was about, and they respond that they just finished reciting π backward.
“But, how old are you?”
“Infinitely old. I never started, but have been at it forever and finally finished.”

Why finish right at that time, and not some other time, any other time in fact?
Counter-intuitive implications, no sufficient reason.

James Harrington: Time: A Philosophical Introduction
Craig Skinner: Ask a Philosopher: Questions and Answers 47 (2nd series) #94

So, sufficient reason is violated in both of those two cases, counter-intuitive (but not contradictory) implications.
Limit of sufficient reason.
Futile pursuit.

In other news:

Ethan Siegel: Surprise: the Big Bang isn’t the beginning of the universe anymore (Oct 13, 2021)