Despite the recent airspace breaches (Estonia, Poland, Romania), the most persistent fact remains that Russia continues to bomb Ukraine daily. That's a fact with consequences on the ground, wherever around the country. Some of the attacks are launched from Belarus.

NATO, EU declared war on Russia through Ukraine, directly participate in it — Lavrov :down:
^{— TASS · Sep 25, 2025}
Europe has never been so close to the start of World War III: Zakharova stated that Ukraine plans to strike NATO countries with Russian drones :down:
^{— Ukrainian National News · Sep 26, 2025}

I'm not sure how accurate the following note is. (Anyone?) Supposing it's accurate enough, it becomes a worry that the Kremlin circle won't negotiate anything without some sort of victory to show at home to carry them through. (Including a worry for Russians.) I guess this concern is not particularly new.

The Kremlin cannot end the war against Ukraine without a crisis

The war that Russia started against Ukraine has changed the structure of the Russian economy. Over the past three years of militarization, the country has found itself in a trap: defense spending has risen to almost 8% of the GDP, and the military-industrial complex has become the main driver of demand. This has allowed the Kremlin to maintain growth in strategic sectors, but at the same time has ended the balance and left private business and civilian industries on the sidelines.

It is impossible to return to a peacetime model without a sharp decline. After the war, Moscow will begin to cut defense spending. As a result, millions of people employed in the military-industrial complex will lose their jobs, and entire regions where defense enterprises are concentrated will be left without an economic base. In addition, the demobilization of hundreds of thousands of contract soldiers will also shock the labor market.

At the same time, the budget is already showing signs of depletion. In the first half of 2025, federal treasury revenues fell by almost 17%, mainly due to lower revenues from oil and gas, which are now being sold at a significant discount. The growth in oil and gas revenues does not compensate for the losses. The Ministry of Finance is forced to raise taxes and introduce new fees, but this only puts more pressure on businesses.

Sanctions and restrictions on technology imports are leading to the degradation of civilian production: Russian companies are forced to produce cheaper and simpler goods, which reduces their competitiveness. In the long term, this deprives the country of the opportunity to return to global markets with high-tech products.

Thus, Russia has found itself in a "military rent trap". The Kremlin cannot sharply reduce military spending without collapse, but it is also becoming increasingly difficult to continue financing the war. This means that a new economic crisis is inevitable for the Russian Federation, and overcoming it will require a long and painful restructuring of the entire system. — Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine · Sep 19, 2025

As an aside, propaganda channels have started talking about Odesa, which is in relative vicinity of Transnistria.

, apologies, I just figured the thread had fair coverage by now, but it's tediously long, just like the lists out there. Hover, pick some:

False or misleading statements by Donald Trump | List of conspiracy theories promoted by Donald Trump | Donald Trump's conflict with the media (Retaliatory lawsuits and federal government actions) | Targeting of political opponents and civil society under the second Trump administration | In Assault on Free Speech, Trump Targets Speech He Hates | The Right Takes Aim at Wikipedia | Donald Trump judicial appointment controversies | Government hiring and personnel of Donald Trump | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. | Inspectors general removed or fired by Donald Trump | Trump publicly urges US Justice Department to charge his enemies | Legal affairs of the second Trump presidency | U.S. Democratic Backsliding in Comparative Perspective | US democracy under siege | Trump sides with Putin over U.S. intelligence during remarkable press conference in Helsinki | The Cipher Brief: Report for Tuesday, June 17, 2025 | Under Trump, America’s New Friends: Russia, North Korea and Belarus | US vetoes G7 proposal to combat Russia’s shadow fleet of oil tankers | US Derails G-7 Condemnation of Russian Missile Strike on Ukraine | Trump Bans AP And Reuters But Invites Russian State Media To Zelenskyy Meeting | Trump has pushed America into a new “Axis of Evil” by aligning with dictators and betraying allies | 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting + Some responses | US popularity collapses worldwide in wake of Trump’s return | U.S. Image Declines in Many Nations Amid Low Confidence in Trump | Trump’s War on Science: How His Policies Affect Canadian Research | As USAID retreats, China pounces | Indictments against Donald Trump | Donald Trump quotes

, oh, you're right, something about those evil immigrants eating cats... :D

Racial views of Donald Trump (Springfield pet-eating hoax)

At the moment, I don't have time to organize this stuff — tedious — but can be bribed. ;)

and this is why I hate the masses more than the authoritarian leaders — Christoffer

Yeah. I'm thinking better basic education might help.

With all the back-and-forth, how accurate is this?

House Trump has

• disregarded legal process and court decisions, and circumvented/side-stepped law
• concentrated power that should be independent
• replaced specialists with loyalists, including intelligence, military, judicial, science, ...
• threatened media/news, politicians, countries, whoever (submission comes to mind)
• ignored/dismissed scientific consensus
• told a record number of lies or misleading statements (for someone in this position)
• raced ahead with populist or manipulative/exploitive moves
• alienated/back-stabbed supposed allies/friends, and sided with authoritarians

Some are typical authoritarian, and democratic backsliding has been seen.
(By the way, my possibly wrong impression is that personally, Trump isn't particularly racist or homophobic, but some who are have his ear.)

I'll leave Trump accolades to someone else.
Looks like he has maintained support among hard-liners/radicals.

Various media lit up with messages about Zarutska's murder at the time.
A noticeable amount were "tough on crime" type messages at first.
After a bit, messages pointed to a health system where the perpetrator, Brown, should have been picked up long ago and secured, received treatment.
(I don't think straightforward racism was prevalent, but maybe I missed it.)
Those seem to have been the main reactions.
Riding the news wave for a political agenda was seen; future prevention has fallen off the radar or has drowned in the noise.
Less sensationalist/charged coverage still relayed how awful it was.
So, society at large (including coverage) failed both Zarutska and Brown, and it shouldn't come as a surprise if it happens again.

and who is full of shit all of the time (Crockett) — Fire Ologist

We do have a record holder. ^{(2020, 2020, 2024)}
I guess people can double down with excuses or not care.

, I'm reminded of this old comment ...

↪Baden Pompey worked out how to use the Roman army to intimidate his way into political power. Julius Caesar adopted his method and worked out how to manipulate popular support; he was defeated by the Senate. Augustus built on the strategy developed by Caesar, sidelining the Senate. The Republic was not overthrown at one blow, but by building on successive successful strategies.

The lesson some will be taking on board now is that fixing numbers in the Senate and popular cult status is insufficient; one also needs to gain control of the judiciary; and fixing numbers of Supremes is insufficient; State courts will also need to be fixed.

But the process for undermining any last semblance of democracy is in place; the oligarchy is becoming explicit. — Banno (Nov 14, 2020)

Hopefully that turns out a bit dramatic, yet the comment seems to have aged too well. The first emperor, Augustus (-27), also told Romans he was the only one who could save Rome, and they believed him, et voilà, imperial cult.

Beijing and the Kremlin both threatens/provokes within a couple of days.
Not cool. I guess they feel free to keep on going.
Looking back, both have also claimed to be peaceful, pro-peace.

U.S. Education Dept. unites conservative groups to create 'patriotic' civics content
^{— Sequoia Carrillo · npr · Sep 17, 2025}

I'm getting some vague 1920s-30s Italy vibes here. Isn't the US education system in need of basic improvements, rather than this?

I was getting 500 emails a minute calling for civil war — Kirk said · Jan 11, 2021

Extremist magnet. Who the senders were (domestic + foreign) might be informative.

If the dictator of "The Democratic Nation of Grôôôh" declares that those with red hair are evil and must be dealt with, then that's hate speech.

Should someone say that Trump is a reprehensible criminal and must be sentenced, then that's not hate speech.

Then there are the in-betweens, special cases, maybes, perhaps depending on context, that seemingly require a case-by-case assessment. A discussion could take some of these up.

Is it possible to come up with one concise definition of hate speech, covering all, that we can go by? I doubt it (but maybe that's just me). For starters, (I think) the moral aspect requires assessment anyway. Largely, lying won't get you jail time (evidently), similarly for insults. We'd have to go by the spirit of a definition (versus freedom of expression), with the usual elements of harm, discrimination, incitement of violence, motives, dignity, ... Abuse of hate speech law is a real possibility. No easy general solution.

, I don't think there's much doubt that Kirk increasingly stoked the fires, was divisive. Some of those Turning Point USA social media / portals aren't exactly filled with reasoned discourse, more like the usual localized propaganda storms, inhabited by moderates and radicals/extremists alike. (If foreign adversaries were to meddle, these are great targets.) Kirk's campus efforts are part of the same story.

Not sure what to make of this yet...

Charlie Kirk and The Hate Speech Algorithm (— Evey Winters · Sep 18, 2025)

Net summary is escalating anti-gay rhetoric.

Stalin helped defeat the Nazis, and he was also a genocidal dictator.
Franco presided over both the "White Terror" and the "Spanish Miracle".
Saddam Hussein was a murderous despot, and Iraq was invaded on incorrect justification.
...
Most are expected to be capable of understanding multiple truths at the same time.

Approaching a year since the US head of Health posted this P01135809 speech:

This earns President Trump a space on Mount Rushmore.
^{— Trump · Robert F. Kennedy, Jr · Nov 9, 2024 · 6m:36s}

Did P01135809 then go ahead to implement half of his accusations?

, well, the better cooperation, the better the chances. Argue the case for all to see, gather the voters, point out inconsistencies and faults, keep it concise or otherwise accurate, broadcast, ... (As an aside, I have a feeling that Rubio has rehearsed "I did so because of so-and-so".)

This quote was reason for suspension? We're talking a comedian/satirist, the kind of person you expect to say "pinchy" things.

We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterise this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and with everything they can to score political points from it.
In between the finger-pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this.
Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief. Construction. Demolition, construction... This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish, okay? And it didn't just happen once.
There's something wrong with him. Is it possible that he's doing it intentionally so we could be mad about that instead of the Epstein list? By the time he's out of office, the White House will have slot machines and a water slide. — Jimmy Kimmel

ABC cowardice on display — good grief that's weak. (Loss of independence integrity?) From the looks of it, Trump managed to not directly violate the law in this case, at least not openly as far as I know.



Over on Fox News, the old "life unworthy of life" was aired, but hasn't received much attention from high-ups, be it leadership or government.

The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. — someone

, actions. Back to admission of condemnation, then.

, the report was archived online a few times. :up:

What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism (archive·today 2024Oct24, archive·org 2025Sep11)
^{— National Institute of Justice Journal · Jan 4, 2024}

Militant, nationalistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism. Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.

I can see why they wanted to "review" it.
Vance lied straight to everyone (2025Sep16) in typical Trump style.
Miller has taken it up as well. (2025Aug24, 2025Aug30)
Johnson, too? (2025Sep8)
They reached the point of "Put up or shut up" for everything they say some time ago.

Did Trump's pseudologia fantastica condition go contagious? Is a medical quarantine in order?

While our side of the aisle certainly has its crazies, it is a statistical FACT that most of the lunatics in American politics today are proud members of the Far Left.
^{— Vance · Rapid Response 47 · Sep 15, 2025}

The killing of Charlie Kirk is part of a grim pattern of political violence in America. This is what the data show http://econ.st/4gwVO6Y
^{— The Economist · Sep 16, 2025}

Worse than casual bullshitting. To be called out.

, maybe there's a lesson to learn from the Horst Wessel story. It's different, yet has parallels. (Is the Trump administration getting into compiling snitch lists of those who didn't adequately mourn Kirk...?)

, maybe someone received a phone call from Trump, except this time it wasn't recorded? ;) For some reason, that doesn't seem out there, not anymore.

, technically, the stupid part is this, this, this, see here, here.

, surely you can come up with a better excuse. Or, is that a reluctant admission of condemnable action?

It does confront the issue. — BitconnectCarlos

It doesn't.
(I guess I could repeat (whatever) reports/links, except, evidently, it doesn't sink in, oh well.)
There's more than one condemnable action here.

PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP TO ALL NATO NATIONS AND, THE WORLD
^{— Donald J. Trump · Sep 13, 2025}

I am ready to do major Sanctions on Russia when all NATO Nations have agreed, and started, to do the same thing, and when all NATO Nations STOP BUYING OIL FROM RUSSIA

Orbán and Fico, presumably? Erdoğan? When might we expect something from those folks anyway? (Also Exxon, eggs?)

it is Biden’s and Zelenskyy’s WAR

No (again).

If NATO does as I say, the WAR will end quickly

The track record kind of renders such promises null and void. Something else might help.

Omissions also tell something: Putin / the Kremlin, India, perhaps Europe or the EU, ...

The post reads a bit like an(other) vacuous promise, be it due to dependencies/conditions or deflection. Something unspoken is going on. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

, your comment still doesn't confront the issue. :/

keep making excuses for or dodging — (earlier)

• October 7 attacks :death:
• Casualties of the Gaza war :death:
• Gaza humanitarian crisis (2023–present) :death:

There isn't just one condemnable action here.

Perfect starting place for a woke position. — Fire Ologist

Nope, it's more or less Wittgensteinian. And an ever-moving target, mostly used by conservatives as a swear word. (Does that work as a definition?) Besides ...

(not that any of this is about me, mind you) — jorndoe

Tried what? — Fire Ologist

Made an effort. Say, addressed the particulars brought up.

So, the examples, ↪Fire Ologist? — (earlier)

@Jeremy Murray, have you found "woke" to be a postmodernist thing?

Joke making the rounds in the wild some 8-10 years ago:

I get it. — BitconnectCarlos

I'm not convinced.

• Hamas goes on a murderous heinous rampage :down: :death:
• Netanyahu bombs away and causes a large humanitarian crisis :down: :death:

When you keep condemning one, and keep making excuses for or dodging the other, then your posts might as well be propaganda.

Those are two condemnable actions, not one.

But there are others that do the same vice versa, and so the chatter hardly overlaps.

, well, Korea was split up by the Allies after the 2nd world war (not entirely unlike East and West Germany I s'pose).
There was a conflict-ridden momentum.
Do you think it was realistic for a single Korea to remain fairly uninfluenced + thrive, perhaps analogous to South Korea / unlike North Korea?
Technically possible sure, but realistic?

How the clown circus continues to treat others and set a creepy atmosphere:

South Korean workers return home after ICE raids at US Hyundai factory
^{— Reuters / Australian Broadcasting Corporation · Sep 12, 2025}
South Korean workers detained in US raid arrive home
^{— BBC · Sep 12, 2025}

Why shall [we] continue US investments after such back-stabbing?

Americans in other countries might want to self-identify as Canadians or something.
I'm sure Canada, Mexico, Europe, whoever would welcome such investments.

Earlier:

Following the Immigration Enforcement Operation on the Hyundai Battery Plant in Georgia, I am hereby calling on all Foreign Companies investing in the United States to please respect our Nation’s Immigration Laws. Your Investments are welcome, and we encourage you to LEGALLY bring your very smart people, with great technical talent, to build World Class products, and we will make it quickly and legally possible for you to do so. What we ask in return is that you hire and train American Workers. Together, we will all work hard to make our Nation not only productive, but closer in unity than ever before. Thank you for your attention to this matter! DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA — Donald J. Trump · Sep 7, 2025

The only man who could play both parts in Dumb and Dumber... — David Farrell

Some of this seems plausible:

Russia's brazen attack on Poland may aim to solve several tasks at once.

The first is testing NATO's "red lines". The Kremlin knows well that the main weakness of the West is not the lack of weapons or finances, but political will. Ideally, Moscow wants to prove the inability of the North Atlantic Alliance as a collective institution. This test is personally addressed to Donald Trump, who has repeatedly demonstrated skepticism about US allied obligations. It would be a victory for Putin to show the world that the American president is not ready to risk for Warsaw or Vilnius.

The second is creating an atmosphere of fear in Central Europe. The terror and threat of war always give birth to political extremes. The ultra-right and ultra-left forces, who openly or secretly sympathize with Moscow, get a chance to strengthen their positions. And then Europe will increasingly resemble the continent of Orban, where cooperation with the Kremlin becomes the norm, and solidarity with victims of aggression is "luxury".

The third - provoking a discussion about Europe's own defense capability. The Kremlin understands perfectly: the more Europeans talk about the need to strengthen their own armies and restore the defense industry, the louder the voices about reducing aid to Ukraine will sound. Moscow is trying to convince the West that it's better to prepare for a hypothetical future war than to help Ukraine in a war that is raging now.

The fourth - fueling anti-Ukrainian moods. Streams of Ukrainian refugees in Europe have already become a convenient visor for populists who ignite xenophobia. The blow on Poland is a signal: the war is near, and Ukrainians - "reminder" that the war can come and to your home. The Kremlin wants Ukrainians to be treated as a burden, not as allies in the fight against the aggressor.

The fifth is preparation for more large-scale aggressive actions. Now the Kremlin can predict scenarios of further war depending on the reaction of Washington and Brussels. If NATO's response to the strike on Poland turns out to be a quail, it will be for Putin an invitation to even more daring steps.

That's right, step by step, Nazi Germany tested the readiness of the world to respond - from the Rhine region, from Sudet, from Prague. And each time the West convinced itself that "it's not a war yet", that "it can still survive".

Now Putin is acting the same way. And whether NATO's determination to respond to the attack on Poland is sufficient, not only the fate of Ukraine, but also the fate of the West itself depends. — Vitaly Portnikov

Charlie Kirk wasn't exactly sympathetic ^{(tg) (bf) (hp)}, but that doesn't justify murder. There are reasons for laws. Hopefully, the perpetrator(s) will be sentenced appropriately.

He's not the only victim.

The Babbitts were gifted just under $5 million by taxpayers, and Ashli Babbitt got a funeral service with all-out military honors. She was one of the Jan 6 (2021) attackers.

A couple of months before Kirk, Melissa and Mark Hortman were murdered.

The responses don't quite match House Trump's response to Kirk's murder, though. Is that because, unlike the Hortmans, Kirk was "one of us"? He wasn't elected by taxpayers for office as far as I know. Do they want to semi-martyr him before the US audience?

I thought freedom was important to House Trump, the clown certainly doesn't hold back, but it seems like that no longer applies to everyone. ^{(nbc) (nbc)}

I guess we'll see what happens.

, there's a stark contrast between North and South Korea; Pyongyang went down, Seoul thrived. (Freedom; HDI doesn't have North Korea; ...)

I'm thinking some of that divergence can be attributed to the history of their foreign support/influence. Seoul went democratic/humanitarian/aspiring, Pyongyang went militant/crazy, etc.

EDIT

HDI: North Korea, not South Korea

, , regarding Korea at least, there's a stark contrast between North and South Korea. Can't some of that be attributed to yester-century's darker history...?

, oh no, not at all; apologies if I came through that way.
My point was just that gangsta' sistas' and bullies might be associated with "woke", whether accurate or not; such people have been around forever anyway.

Get a Passport or Leave: Russia’s Ultimatum to Ukrainians (— HRW · Mar 25, 2025)

The date given was Sep 10, 2025.

Colonization.

, hmm...? You could have tried.

Anyway, in offices and companies, demanding an even distribution across whatever, say skin color or gender, is overreach (if done with legislation). Conversely, a marked disproportionate representation of whatever can be remedied by stimulating merit (contra discrimination or social imposition), maybe all the way back to elementary school.

So, the examples, ?

Just talk around it and talk about the unwoke. — Fire Ologist

Nope. I called those folks anti-woke because they called The Little Mermaid woke. Is that what it is?

Meaning is found in its use. Since we're not talking mathematics, definitions are fraught and have to follow use anyway, be it about equality/exclusion, conspiracy theorists, gay marriage, angry bullying radical lesbians, merit, whatever.

So I had to give examples and some context. And gave an apparently agreeable rule-of-thumb. 3/4 wokeity rating? The linked 2024 article also gives examples and international context; notice how "woke" is used to divide/polarize (e.g. "Kremlin statecraft"). From admittedly unreliable memory, "black lives matter" also got "woke-stamped" by some (coinciding with "statecraft" and perhaps some other moves).

Anyway, "woke" is now used as a pejorative by one side in culture wars, often enough accompanied by an extreme example though implicitly carrying other baggage along. But my understanding/impression could easily be off; either way, personally I'd just as well do without the populist noise and @Athena's bullies (not that any of this is about me, mind you).

Are the Trumpests "anti-woke"? — earlier

Years ago, I was horrified by the demands of men-hating, homosexual women, who had gotten control of a women's shelter. [...] — Athena

:o Not what I associate with "woke", seems more like reactionary radicals or something, but my word-use could easily be off. Gangsta' sistas' been 'round forever.

, okie, so we can go by that rule-of-thumb. I'm not sure what its wokeity rating is. 3/4? It comes up in that context.

RFK Jr was appointed because he's susceptible to Circus Trump's whims, because of perceived loyalty, or whatever, not merit. He's also easy to discredit and throw away, just in case. Concern for health overruled or otherwise irrelevant. :down: Are the Trumpests "anti-woke"?

Say, around 1900 (± whatever years depending on place), women couldn't be elected to office. There was a strong, long-held undercurrent of tradition, rendering merit irrelevant, overlapping with conservative (and religious) sentiments. I suppose yester-yester-century's new movements might have been labeled "woke". Not good enough. :down:

There is no such thing as a woke snob? — Fire Ologist

Could be. I was going by the rule-of-thumb, though, which I understand to be in the spirit of DEI. Anyway ... other such agreeable rules?

A couple of years ago, Disney made yet another incarnation of The Little Mermaid, the first being from the late 1980s. Then there was an uproar because of :scream: Ariel's skin color. An army of retarded "anti-woke" rose to the occasion. :down:

Wasn't "woke" also associated with conspiracy theories some years back? Well, there are elements of these culture wars that play right into the hands of adversaries. :down:

(maybe I should have added snobbery — ok done)

the issue before DEI wasn’t that all of these incompetent nepotism babies were running everything — Fire Ologist

Well, that ...

seems like a false dichotomy — Fire Ologist

Anyway, RFK Jr's appointment to head of US Health is a clear high-profile example involving competence, one I'd hold the administration accountable for. Coming up with other examples isn't hard; I guess typical (historical) examples involve skin color, ethnicity, females, religion, political leanings, homosexuals, whatever.

You need to define “conservatism” [...] — Fire Ologist

I'm not using the words in some non-standard way, but rather suggesting an ethical stance, then trying to ask if that's more important than conservatism.

Selecting people by merit instead of tradition/conformity seems like the right thing to do.
Is that anti-conservative?

EDIT (added snobbery)

Selecting people by merit instead of tradition/snobbery/conformity seems like the right thing to do.
Is that anti-conservative?