, saw that. :D
Up-and-coming politicians that I wouldn't want for mayor, or other representative.
They picked up some of that Trump.

Outcry after US strips visas from six foreigners over Charlie Kirk remarks (— Guardian · Oct 15, 2025)

18 of Charlie Kirk's alleged quotes, investigated (— Snopes · Oct 11, 2025)

Make America Sick Again

The CDC has been gutted. (— Neil Stone · Oct 11, 2025)

How can anyone think that RFK Jr is helping Americans?

Interacting with AI doesn't require other humans.
Anyone can do so on their own time; I mostly do by coincidence when doing google queries (I think).

Here at the forums, I kind of expect interacting with humans.
Or, at least, if interacting with AI by proxy / indirectly, that it's relevant (and checked) summaries or the like.

How to distinguish, though?

:D I could use a memory upgrade

It does seem like a competitive situation of some sort is emerging.

We lost chess to the machines some time ago.

Large language models can write well-formed summaries, based on a lot of data, faster than humans.
Can be combined with whatever else, like automated theorem provers, natural language processing, ...

Can AI out-compete homo sapiens in a kind of discourse war, though...?

With all the commotion about consequences of negative comments about Charlie Kirk, would/should this then have consequences?

Here is the same woman — the one with the “Z Crimea” car.
First of all, if you live in Virginia, you can file a complaint with the DMV. I know some of you have already done so — thank you.

A reminder about the realtor from Shepherd Homes Group (Virginia / Washington, D.C.) who openly supports Putin and the “special military operation.” Her name is Vasa Zenchenko (also known as Vasa Farafontova).

After the second day of the Russian “bazaar,” this propagandist drove up to the protesters, including myself, turned on the Russian national anthem, and started proudly dancing. Her child was wearing a hat that said “Russia.”

Her mother, Anna Ivanovna Zenchenko-Farafontova, is listed in the Myrotvorets database for: – Promoting war and Russian fascism and Nazism – Publicly supporting Russian aggression and the killing of Ukrainian civilians – Undermining Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity – Being complicit in crimes committed by the Russian regime against Ukraine and its citizens Vasa continues her mother’s work here in the U.S., also using a church partly affiliated with the Moscow Patriarchate as cover. — marisonechko · Oct 8, 2025 · 37s

DMV will deny applications for personalized license plates in accordance with the Personalized License Plate Issuance Guidelines set forth below. DMV will cancel and recall any personalized license plates which were issued and later discovered to be in violation of the Guidelines.

• Used to condone or encourage violence — Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles: Personalized License Plate Guidelines and Restrictions

I don't see a case myself. Technically maybe, but otherwise too wishy-washy. Then again, if you could be threatened/fired for airing something negative about Kirk, or get picked up by ICE for airing something against Israel?

That’s how I hold a discussion, how I debate.

But then we have to elect leaders. Then we have to pick a platform (pick a team) and play fair to make a final selection of elected official. — Fire Ologist

The process doesn't end with a vote, though.

fyi, found the old quote on wikiquote

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. The government won't work without it. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them. — Barry Goldwater (1994)

The trick is to pick your team and [...] — Fire Ologist

I do it differently.

Decide on whatever topics/issues; work out who to vote for accordingly; if none found, then figure out if second best is good enough, or if there are additional concerns to take into account; ...

Someone (Goldwater?) once mentioned that politics involves compromise.

No leftist hatred on the streets of Portland today? — Fire Ologist

It may get there. (Though the incessant us-versus-them thing is getting old.)

Federal agents knock down elderly couple during Portland protest (— The Oregonian / OregonLive · Oct 4, 2025)

Anyway, these trends have raised some concerns. You don't see anything to worry about?

What the heck is wrong with that guy? Or did I miss something?

The issue before is now is very simple and clear. There is a large and growing movement of leftwing terrorism in this country. It is well organized and funded. And it is shielded by far-left Democrat judges, prosecutors and attorneys general. The only remedy is to use legitimate state power to dismantle terrorism and terror networks. — Stephen Miller · Oct 4, 2025

Another "Put up or shut up" type claim. Most reports over the past few years tell a different story. More erosion of the Trump regime's credibility; more still if no one calls him out on it. Goes along with Vance's and Trump's earlier comments, perhaps Hegseth's goings-and-doings as well. I guess we'll see what comes of it.

Murder and Extremism in the United States in 2022
^{— Anti-Defamation League · Feb 22, 2023}
Underrecognized: Extremist murders are usually from right-wing actors
^{— The Washington Post · Feb 28, 2023}
What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism
^{— National Institute of Justice · Jan 4, 2024}
Is “radical-left” violence really on the rise in America?
^{— The Economist · Sep 12, 2025}
Trump Called for a Crackdown on the ‘Radical Left.’ But Right-Wing Extremists Are Responsible for More Political Violence
^{— TIME · Sep 16, 2025}
Trump administration says it will target far-left groups for Kirk's assassination. Prosecutors made no such link.
^{— NBC · Sep 17, 2025}
Right-wing extremist violence is more frequent and more deadly than left-wing violence − what the data shows
^{— The Conversation · Sep 17, 2025}

You think the martyrdom of Kirk is somehow organic? — Jeremy Murray

They sure are trying to make him a martyr.

• Ashli Babbitt was one of the Jan 6 (2021) attackers. The Babbitts were gifted just under $5 million by taxpayers, and Ashli got a funeral service with all-out military honors.
• In Jun 2025, Melissa and Mark Hortman (and their dog, Gilbert) were murdered. Melissa was an elected official. Not much to see here.
• In Sep 2025, Charlie Kirk was murdered; he was not an elected official, but part of the Trump crowd. His casket was transported by Air Force Two (at taxpayers' expense); there's been much fanfare and propaganda. Propaganda channels more or less followed Russian patterns, but include his widow ("We Are Charlie", "Erika Kirk, not Taylor Swift", etc).

They're not the only recent victims.

Kirk did have a following of outraged Christian nationalists, if that counts as organic.

, that was your takeaway?

if you ask me — Fire Ologist

Ask the participants. Some have commented.

Woke is: [...] — Fire Ologist

Some possible examples have come up. (Addressed to you I mean.) Are they "woke"?

I know nothing about Project 2025. I have no idea who is behind it. I disagree with some of the things they’re saying and some of the things they’re saying are absolutely ridiculous and abysmal. Anything they do, I wish them luck, but I have nothing to do with them. — Donald J. Trump · Jul 5, 2024

I have a meeting today with Russ Vought, he of PROJECT 2025 Fame, to determine which of the many Democrat Agencies, most of which are a political SCAM, he recommends to be cut, and whether or not those cuts will be temporary or permanent. I can’t believe the Radical Left Democrats gave me this unprecedented opportunity. They are not stupid people, so maybe this is their way of wanting to, quietly and quickly, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN! President DJT — Donald J. Trump · Oct 2, 2025

I guess everyone knew. At least it's confirmed that there's a Project 2025 element in the White House. Rambling about the others as radicals and scammers will trickle down and out to his herd.

A Boston judge issues a blistering warning over free speech under Trump
^{— Axios · Oct 2, 2025}

Should Young be worried about his future now?

, but Zeus does exist, he's just not real. ;)

they would shut her down and kick her out for not conforming on all issues — Fire Ologist

That seems to be a government thing these days.

Hegseth slams 'fat generals,' Trump touts cities as troop ‘training grounds’
^{— Reuters · Sep 30, 2025}

If you don't like what I'm saying, you can leave the room. Of course, there goes your rank, there goes your future. — Trump

Trump tells a roomful of silent generals to join a ‘war from within’
^{— The Washington Post · Sep 30, 2025}

As Trump wrapped up his address, some officers stood and lightly applauded. Others remained seated.

:o
Max (app) (— Wikipedia) :eyes:
NSA, Mossad, and others can probably do something a bit similar, except on demand, not pre-installed.

On that note, smartphone companies got a good deal, must be lucrative.
These days, a personal smartphone is just about required for various purposes (e.g. authentication), including for other business (e.g. bank) and government, who don't pay for your phone.
Not having a smartphone is becoming like a handicap/disability if not a hindrance.

Examples of how "woke" is used (the latter is recent):

From women in combat to Trump’s border wall, here are the policies Pete Hegseth has spoken out on
^{— POLITICO · Nov 13, 2024}
Veterans assail Pete Hegseth’s ‘clueless, self-aggrandizing’ leadership after remarks to military officials
^{— The Independent · Sep 30, 2025}
Hegseth rails against 'woke,' lays out standards in speech to top generals, admirals
^{— ABC News · Sep 30, 2025 · 4m:56s}

Is this how the term is generally understood?
Hegseth is an appointed official after all.

Despite the recent airspace breaches (Estonia, Poland, Romania), the most persistent fact remains that Russia continues to bomb Ukraine daily. That's a fact with consequences on the ground, wherever around the country. Some of the attacks are launched from Belarus.

NATO, EU declared war on Russia through Ukraine, directly participate in it — Lavrov :down:
^{— TASS · Sep 25, 2025}
Europe has never been so close to the start of World War III: Zakharova stated that Ukraine plans to strike NATO countries with Russian drones :down:
^{— Ukrainian National News · Sep 26, 2025}

I'm not sure how accurate the following note is. (Anyone?) Supposing it's accurate enough, it becomes a worry that the Kremlin circle won't negotiate anything without some sort of victory to show at home to carry them through. (Including a worry for Russians.) I guess this concern is not particularly new.

The Kremlin cannot end the war against Ukraine without a crisis

The war that Russia started against Ukraine has changed the structure of the Russian economy. Over the past three years of militarization, the country has found itself in a trap: defense spending has risen to almost 8% of the GDP, and the military-industrial complex has become the main driver of demand. This has allowed the Kremlin to maintain growth in strategic sectors, but at the same time has ended the balance and left private business and civilian industries on the sidelines.

It is impossible to return to a peacetime model without a sharp decline. After the war, Moscow will begin to cut defense spending. As a result, millions of people employed in the military-industrial complex will lose their jobs, and entire regions where defense enterprises are concentrated will be left without an economic base. In addition, the demobilization of hundreds of thousands of contract soldiers will also shock the labor market.

At the same time, the budget is already showing signs of depletion. In the first half of 2025, federal treasury revenues fell by almost 17%, mainly due to lower revenues from oil and gas, which are now being sold at a significant discount. The growth in oil and gas revenues does not compensate for the losses. The Ministry of Finance is forced to raise taxes and introduce new fees, but this only puts more pressure on businesses.

Sanctions and restrictions on technology imports are leading to the degradation of civilian production: Russian companies are forced to produce cheaper and simpler goods, which reduces their competitiveness. In the long term, this deprives the country of the opportunity to return to global markets with high-tech products.

Thus, Russia has found itself in a "military rent trap". The Kremlin cannot sharply reduce military spending without collapse, but it is also becoming increasingly difficult to continue financing the war. This means that a new economic crisis is inevitable for the Russian Federation, and overcoming it will require a long and painful restructuring of the entire system. — Foreign Intelligence Service of Ukraine · Sep 19, 2025

As an aside, propaganda channels have started talking about Odesa, which is in relative vicinity of Transnistria.

, apologies, I just figured the thread had fair coverage by now, but it's tediously long, just like the lists out there. Hover, pick some:

False or misleading statements by Donald Trump | List of conspiracy theories promoted by Donald Trump | Donald Trump's conflict with the media (Retaliatory lawsuits and federal government actions) | Targeting of political opponents and civil society under the second Trump administration | In Assault on Free Speech, Trump Targets Speech He Hates | The Right Takes Aim at Wikipedia | Donald Trump judicial appointment controversies | Government hiring and personnel of Donald Trump | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. | Inspectors general removed or fired by Donald Trump | Trump publicly urges US Justice Department to charge his enemies | Legal affairs of the second Trump presidency | U.S. Democratic Backsliding in Comparative Perspective | US democracy under siege | Trump sides with Putin over U.S. intelligence during remarkable press conference in Helsinki | The Cipher Brief: Report for Tuesday, June 17, 2025 | Under Trump, America’s New Friends: Russia, North Korea and Belarus | US vetoes G7 proposal to combat Russia’s shadow fleet of oil tankers | US Derails G-7 Condemnation of Russian Missile Strike on Ukraine | Trump Bans AP And Reuters But Invites Russian State Media To Zelenskyy Meeting | Trump has pushed America into a new “Axis of Evil” by aligning with dictators and betraying allies | 2025 Trump–Zelenskyy Oval Office meeting + Some responses | US popularity collapses worldwide in wake of Trump’s return | U.S. Image Declines in Many Nations Amid Low Confidence in Trump | Trump’s War on Science: How His Policies Affect Canadian Research | As USAID retreats, China pounces | Indictments against Donald Trump | Donald Trump quotes

, oh, you're right, something about those evil immigrants eating cats... :D

Racial views of Donald Trump (Springfield pet-eating hoax)

At the moment, I don't have time to organize this stuff — tedious — but can be bribed. ;)

and this is why I hate the masses more than the authoritarian leaders — Christoffer

Yeah. I'm thinking better basic education might help.

With all the back-and-forth, how accurate is this?

House Trump has

• disregarded legal process and court decisions, and circumvented/side-stepped law
• concentrated power that should be independent
• replaced specialists with loyalists, including intelligence, military, judicial, science, ...
• threatened media/news, politicians, countries, whoever (submission comes to mind)
• ignored/dismissed scientific consensus
• told a record number of lies or misleading statements (for someone in this position)
• raced ahead with populist or manipulative/exploitive moves
• alienated/back-stabbed supposed allies/friends, and sided with authoritarians

Some are typical authoritarian, and democratic backsliding has been seen.
(By the way, my possibly wrong impression is that personally, Trump isn't particularly racist or homophobic, but some who are have his ear.)

I'll leave Trump accolades to someone else.
Looks like he has maintained support among hard-liners/radicals.

Various media lit up with messages about Zarutska's murder at the time.
A noticeable amount were "tough on crime" type messages at first.
After a bit, messages pointed to a health system where the perpetrator, Brown, should have been picked up long ago and secured, received treatment.
(I don't think straightforward racism was prevalent, but maybe I missed it.)
Those seem to have been the main reactions.
Riding the news wave for a political agenda was seen; future prevention has fallen off the radar or has drowned in the noise.
Less sensationalist/charged coverage still relayed how awful it was.
So, society at large (including coverage) failed both Zarutska and Brown, and it shouldn't come as a surprise if it happens again.

and who is full of shit all of the time (Crockett) — Fire Ologist

We do have a record holder. ^{(2020, 2020, 2024)}
I guess people can double down with excuses or not care.

, I'm reminded of this old comment ...

↪Baden Pompey worked out how to use the Roman army to intimidate his way into political power. Julius Caesar adopted his method and worked out how to manipulate popular support; he was defeated by the Senate. Augustus built on the strategy developed by Caesar, sidelining the Senate. The Republic was not overthrown at one blow, but by building on successive successful strategies.

The lesson some will be taking on board now is that fixing numbers in the Senate and popular cult status is insufficient; one also needs to gain control of the judiciary; and fixing numbers of Supremes is insufficient; State courts will also need to be fixed.

But the process for undermining any last semblance of democracy is in place; the oligarchy is becoming explicit. — Banno (Nov 14, 2020)

Hopefully that turns out a bit dramatic, yet the comment seems to have aged too well. The first emperor, Augustus (-27), also told Romans he was the only one who could save Rome, and they believed him, et voilà, imperial cult.

Beijing and the Kremlin both threatens/provokes within a couple of days.
Not cool. I guess they feel free to keep on going.
Looking back, both have also claimed to be peaceful, pro-peace.

U.S. Education Dept. unites conservative groups to create 'patriotic' civics content
^{— Sequoia Carrillo · npr · Sep 17, 2025}

I'm getting some vague 1920s-30s Italy vibes here. Isn't the US education system in need of basic improvements, rather than this?

I was getting 500 emails a minute calling for civil war — Kirk said · Jan 11, 2021

Extremist magnet. Who the senders were (domestic + foreign) might be informative.

If the dictator of "The Democratic Nation of Grôôôh" declares that those with red hair are evil and must be dealt with, then that's hate speech.

Should someone say that Trump is a reprehensible criminal and must be sentenced, then that's not hate speech.

Then there are the in-betweens, special cases, maybes, perhaps depending on context, that seemingly require a case-by-case assessment. A discussion could take some of these up.

Is it possible to come up with one concise definition of hate speech, covering all, that we can go by? I doubt it (but maybe that's just me). For starters, (I think) the moral aspect requires assessment anyway. Largely, lying won't get you jail time (evidently), similarly for insults. We'd have to go by the spirit of a definition (versus freedom of expression), with the usual elements of harm, discrimination, incitement of violence, motives, dignity, ... Abuse of hate speech law is a real possibility. No easy general solution.

, I don't think there's much doubt that Kirk increasingly stoked the fires, was divisive. Some of those Turning Point USA social media / portals aren't exactly filled with reasoned discourse, more like the usual localized propaganda storms, inhabited by moderates and radicals/extremists alike. (If foreign adversaries were to meddle, these are great targets.) Kirk's campus efforts are part of the same story.

Not sure what to make of this yet...

Charlie Kirk and The Hate Speech Algorithm (— Evey Winters · Sep 18, 2025)

Net summary is escalating anti-gay rhetoric.

Stalin helped defeat the Nazis, and he was also a genocidal dictator.
Franco presided over both the "White Terror" and the "Spanish Miracle".
Saddam Hussein was a murderous despot, and Iraq was invaded on incorrect justification.
...
Most are expected to be capable of understanding multiple truths at the same time.

Approaching a year since the US head of Health posted this P01135809 speech:

This earns President Trump a space on Mount Rushmore.
^{— Trump · Robert F. Kennedy, Jr · Nov 9, 2024 · 6m:36s}

Did P01135809 then go ahead to implement half of his accusations?

, well, the better cooperation, the better the chances. Argue the case for all to see, gather the voters, point out inconsistencies and faults, keep it concise or otherwise accurate, broadcast, ... (As an aside, I have a feeling that Rubio has rehearsed "I did so because of so-and-so".)

This quote was reason for suspension? We're talking a comedian/satirist, the kind of person you expect to say "pinchy" things.

We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterise this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and with everything they can to score political points from it.
In between the finger-pointing, there was grieving. On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this.
Yes, he's at the fourth stage of grief. Construction. Demolition, construction... This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish, okay? And it didn't just happen once.
There's something wrong with him. Is it possible that he's doing it intentionally so we could be mad about that instead of the Epstein list? By the time he's out of office, the White House will have slot machines and a water slide. — Jimmy Kimmel

ABC cowardice on display — good grief that's weak. (Loss of independence integrity?) From the looks of it, Trump managed to not directly violate the law in this case, at least not openly as far as I know.



Over on Fox News, the old "life unworthy of life" was aired, but hasn't received much attention from high-ups, be it leadership or government.

The measure of a society is how it treats its weakest members. — someone

, actions. Back to admission of condemnation, then.

, the report was archived online a few times. :up:

What NIJ Research Tells Us About Domestic Terrorism (archive·today 2024Oct24, archive·org 2025Sep11)
^{— National Institute of Justice Journal · Jan 4, 2024}

Militant, nationalistic, white supremacist violent extremism has increased in the United States. In fact, the number of far-right attacks continues to outpace all other types of terrorism and domestic violent extremism. Since 1990, far-right extremists have committed far more ideologically motivated homicides than far-left or radical Islamist extremists, including 227 events that took more than 520 lives.

I can see why they wanted to "review" it.
Vance lied straight to everyone (2025Sep16) in typical Trump style.
Miller has taken it up as well. (2025Aug24, 2025Aug30)
Johnson, too? (2025Sep8)
They reached the point of "Put up or shut up" for everything they say some time ago.

Did Trump's pseudologia fantastica condition go contagious? Is a medical quarantine in order?

While our side of the aisle certainly has its crazies, it is a statistical FACT that most of the lunatics in American politics today are proud members of the Far Left.
^{— Vance · Rapid Response 47 · Sep 15, 2025}

The killing of Charlie Kirk is part of a grim pattern of political violence in America. This is what the data show http://econ.st/4gwVO6Y
^{— The Economist · Sep 16, 2025}

Worse than casual bullshitting. To be called out.

, maybe there's a lesson to learn from the Horst Wessel story. It's different, yet has parallels. (Is the Trump administration getting into compiling snitch lists of those who didn't adequately mourn Kirk...?)

, maybe someone received a phone call from Trump, except this time it wasn't recorded? ;) For some reason, that doesn't seem out there, not anymore.

, technically, the stupid part is this, this, this, see here, here.

, surely you can come up with a better excuse. Or, is that a reluctant admission of condemnable action?

It does confront the issue. — BitconnectCarlos

It doesn't.
(I guess I could repeat (whatever) reports/links, except, evidently, it doesn't sink in, oh well.)
There's more than one condemnable action here.

PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP TO ALL NATO NATIONS AND, THE WORLD
^{— Donald J. Trump · Sep 13, 2025}

I am ready to do major Sanctions on Russia when all NATO Nations have agreed, and started, to do the same thing, and when all NATO Nations STOP BUYING OIL FROM RUSSIA

Orbán and Fico, presumably? Erdoğan? When might we expect something from those folks anyway? (Also Exxon, eggs?)

it is Biden’s and Zelenskyy’s WAR

No (again).

If NATO does as I say, the WAR will end quickly

The track record kind of renders such promises null and void. Something else might help.

Omissions also tell something: Putin / the Kremlin, India, perhaps Europe or the EU, ...

The post reads a bit like an(other) vacuous promise, be it due to dependencies/conditions or deflection. Something unspoken is going on. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.