, the block-verse model doesn't specify the indexical here-now, you have to plug it in.
Call it a feature or incomplete if you like; the model has use.
(e.g. Time and such)

Someone should set up some ghosts for those QAnon people to chase. :D
The elusive "Anti-QAnon organizations" that perform magical rituals to deprive them of their souls, and eat their children with a good Chianti, ...
Actually, it seems they're already chasing their own ghosts.

So, what's up in Trump-verse these days?

:D

L. Lin Wood ← cracked pot

the whole show was to (1) keep him the centre of attention, as always, and (2) to wreak vengeance on Americans for not voting for him and (3) possibly also exploring whether causing a shutdown would enable him to declare martial law and stay in office — Wayfarer

Bad, sure, but that bad? :o

Anyway, thought you might enjoy these:

I might just skip past the misleading verbiage and say that seeing is interacting. And, as parts of the world, we interact as (parts of) the world is. Does that work?

Some chit-chat found elsewhere ...

Mark my words. Trump is going to try to restart real estate project discussions in Russia after he leaves office, which will go a long way to explain why he was so averse to criticizing Russia during his presidency, even taking the word of Putin over the unified assessment of America's intelligence services regarding the Russia attack on our election, and explaining why he is now dismissing the present Russia cyberattack. He doesn't want to offend the potential spigot of money from Russia. — RM

Without the legal support of the DOJ and presidential immunity he may defect, but if he goes to Russia, he’s never coming back. Either US intelligence will kill him before he can divulge state secrets, or the Russians will find him a cozy place to dictate all the secrets. This because on top of being weak, he lacks moral fortitude and character. — JS

I'm not sure Russia will give a damn about him once he loses power. They might let him live next to Edward Snowden to pump him for information when it's convenient for them. But that might be all he's worth at this point. — RS

Ex-presidents are still given security briefings. Russia could exploit that. — RM

Keep in mind most of his real estate dealings with Russians aren’t in Russia. They are in New York, Florida, Kazakhstan etc. “Trump Moscow” is just going to be the least secret, but we already know he sold a lot of Trump Tower condos to Russian oligarchs, got a bonus $50 million flipping a Florida estate to one, etc. — MG

A tad bit speculative, but we'll see if RM's prediction holds I guess.
Either way, potential security/political interests inside the borders of Russia probably shouldn't count themselves safe.

, I wasted time looking at that data from The New York Times.
_{(FYI, the data they have is in json format, and was used for a kind of general running overview during the counting. I think other news also relied on it, while America tensely watched, with much nail-biting it seems.)}

Sure, there are some bumps and jumps here and there in the data. And those particular ones the conspiracy theorists zoomed in on, have more Biden counts than Trump counts. It's not that the Trump curve doesn't jump, but it jumps less than the Biden curve. By itself, this stuff doesn't prove anything, could be whatever.
_{(If anyone also wants to waste time, I can point them at the data, show how to extract things into tabular format, and load it up in whatever spreadsheet software. Getting fancy, load it up in, say, SageMath, Jupyter, Scilab, which is free software. Mathematica and Maple are commercial.)}

So, they needed to correlate the exact timing with something going on at the places where the votes were counted. Hence that footage where they'd grabbed frames, added red arrows and circles, and pointed out alleged crimes/criminals. That's what Brian Cohen commented on, in part anyway.

Sometime, they went on to point fingers at those vote-machines. "The plot thickens." Though it seems the company then warned Powell et al of lawsuits.

Ridiculous and bizarrely entertaining. :)

But what's of greater concern is there are people who believe that the unsupported allegations made in these legal actions are true and that their rejection by the courts is just another part of the "steal." — Ciceronianus the White

And some of them have guns. And Pompeo has railed China-fear-hate up among some, too. And socialism-phobia. "Crazies" to quote the late McCain?

In short...

Trump goes off the deep end with UNHINGED new conspiracy theory
Brian Tyler Cohen; 8m:14s youtube; Dec 13, 2020

Misc comments...

If he didn’t trust the machines why is he so convinced he won. — Kym Higginbottom

He only claims fraud in the states he lost. He is the fraud he speaks of. Guys a con man. — Anita Luca

What's really scary is that a lot of people believe every word he says. — Kerry Ellison

The Authentic Appeal of the Lying Demagogue: Proclaiming the Deeper Truth about Political Illegitimacy
Hahl, Kim, Sivan; American Sociological Review; Jan 10, 2018

At it again...

Peter Navarro releases 36-page report alleging election fraud 'more than sufficient' to swing victory to Trump
Andrew Mark Miller
Washington Examiner
Dec 2020

I take the article itself with a grain of salt.
Haven't read the report (not yet anyway), might have to be taken with a grain of salt as well.
Either way, it seems clear that those people had decided "Trump won" and "fraud" before most of this (alleged) evidence was dug up.

, true and false are properties of propositions (or statements).
And claims about gods are such propositions.
They're not replaced, they're true or false.

we cannot just suppose that people were committing crimes without any evidence that crimes were committed — Metaphysician Undercover

That's kind of what I'm thinking as well. Guilty until proven innocent?

Someone had grabbed some footage, taken out some frames, added red arrows and circles, and added their comments, pointing out alleged criminals and "suspect" or "anomalous" behavior. As far as I can tell, none of the vote-handlers have been taken in and questioned. Wouldn't they at the very least be "persons of interest" or something? The allegations are kind of serious. By the way, the red arrows and circles looks like something you might find on UFO conspiracy theory sites. I don't think the footage counts as material evidence of a crime really; it's too pareidolic, too many different hypothetical narratives could be put on top of it; nah, they were likely just doing their jobs, with America tensely waiting.

The law needs material evidence, yes? Either there is none, or someone is withholding something. These lawsuits and theories go back, just about to when the counts had come in (that's not counting Trump's 2016 postulates of course).

• Suppose there isn't really much, no material evidence, which would explain the lack thus far.
Then what's the reason for the flurry of lawsuits? What's made Powell et al (apparently) believe Trump won?

• Suppose someone is withholding material evidence.
Then why hasn't it been provided, ending the waste of time/resources, getting conspirators questioned (and prosecuted), perhaps securing Trump a 2^nd term (which presumably is the goal)?

What is it that everyone supposedly is missing here...?

Isn't it odd, though, that some folk, smart and resourceful enough, would just run with Trump's word?
It's not like he has a record of relaying facts.
More like the opposite, we're talking alternative facts, post-truth'ery, bullshitting, exaggerating/downplaying/misdirecting opportunistically, incompetence, propagating/condoning conspiracy theories, sort of alarmist, exploiting the backfire effect, ...
Anyway, those folk apparently see "critical statistical anomalies" in data from New York Times (Edison and Scytl), here in processed json format (not the original source data): Pennsylvania, Wisconsin
(It's not difficult to parse out and plot, by the way; I can give pointers if anyone is interested.)
Other analyses: Security Debrief, Charleen Adams
Sample conversations:
Fan: "So is it over? Shit will start to go crazy?"
Conspiracy theorist: "it looks like we're approaching some kind of critical mass."
Sorry folks, the case here is just far too weak. :shrug:

Edit: Sorry, that was for and others in that line of chit-chat.

, they express "absolute certainty" that they have a rock-solid case with the Supreme Court.
Faulty proprietary algorithms in those machines, and "statistical anomalies", they boldly claim.
Actually, their "certainty" that Trump won has been around since he lost.
I wouldn't say these particular people are stupid, but they sure as heck are personally invested.

Well, those folk over there are now yelling "Trump won! 4 more years!" again.

(I occasionally chat with one or two of them; they are ... obsessed)

Hmm.

Demystifying U.S. Covid-19 death counts (Tam Hunt; Dec 3, 2020)

Death toll significantly overestimated...?
Either way, looks like an attempt at downplay.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that we run with some sort of physicalism plus abstract objects.

By some sort of physicalism, I'd start out with a cup of coffee (important), the Moon, a soccer match (Manchester United), ... Of course there's more to it (perhaps mass energy distance/volume duration forces relativistic quantum fields whatever), in a way, but we might start there.

So, where does that (physicalism plus abstracts) then take us?

Consciousness no longer occurs?
Death, at first, is the last time consciousness ends and cannot recur, then, as determined by doctors and such, when bodily functions cease.
Is there anything ... extra, unaccounted for ... found...? Anything missing...?
I suppose you might check @Sam26's Evidence of Consciousness Surviving the Body thread; bit long though.

Press Conference: Election Whistleblowers Come Forward - Amistad Project via PR Newswire; Dec 01, 2020

featuring three whistleblowers who will provide personal eyewitness accounts demonstrating significant potential election fraud, some of which affects hundreds of thousands of ballots [...] Rigorous on-the-ground investigations have uncovered extensive evidence of fraud affecting hundreds of thousands of ballots that is being used in litigation across five states

... they claim.

("demonstrating" "Rigorous" "extensive" ... also "potential")

Can't help but wonder if they want to deny legitimate mail-voters.

Which is it; Wide spread or in labs? — Book273

This isn't an "exclusive or" type thing.

not an observational or anecdotal study, something peer reviewed and robust, that I could use in my practice — Book273

But it is observed. Like that party over there turned out a spreading-event, that ferry over there carrying passengers daily while observing protocols isn't, whichever. Why would you want to dismiss observations, when we're after the truth of the matter, and safety?

Not the kind of thing you'd typically find with carefully constructed (large scale, controlled) experiments reported in Nature magazine. The world at large is an inadvertent "experiment" here. And so we best learn, of which observing is a means.

The minor inconvenience of safety protocols (and visor perhaps) taken together with observations and "safety first" makes them reasonable, irrespective of your demands.

If you're an accredited medical professional, then ... nevermind. I call contrarian bollocks. Maybe you ought be tagged a public risk?

with covid, everyone is treated as infected before the fact — Merkwurdichliebe

No, it's treated as unknown, because that's what it is in the population at large, unknown.
In small "bubbles" of acquaintances, confidence can be higher.

Surprise — widespread use of masks is known to make a statistical difference.
(At close-up, in labs, masks have been shown to make a difference.)
And so, that's where it's at — make a difference. Common sense, too.

Should someone pin an info-post on the pandemic or something...?
Or not. There are a few available out there anyway. Some will remain challenged apparently.

innocent before proven guilty — Merkwurdichliebe

Hyperbole. Bad analogy. Take the virus to court.

I don't want to wear any mask at all, end of story. — Book273

Then stay away from other people, or at least ensure you don't expel your exhaust onto those that don't want it.
Hopefully a vaccine can be generally available soon, so we can do away with these (inconvenient) safety protocols. (y)

(y)

, if you don't think they're good enough, then wear something better.

Definitely mob morality, I'll pass — Merkwurdichliebe

This is mob morality in your book?

... or ...

Did you know the CDC restricts the use of masks on newborn babies. They don't seem to be doing too bad, eh? — Merkwurdichliebe

Masks are (mainly) for others' protection.
So you want to wear the annoying thing around newborns. Right?

Sure hope you're not one of these:



Creepy.

, Strangelove

• masks are dirt cheap
• widespread use of masks is known to make a statistical difference, check history for that matter
• masks have been shown to make a difference in labs
• heck, it's common sense, use your gray matter, others may not be interested in all your exhaust
• no, you're not particularly entitled to stride about spreading disease
• wearing a mask is being respectful to others, yep, there are morals somewhere here
• the virus couldn't care less about you me us anyone, it's in the business of infecting, whether you cry "tyranny" or not
* the virus is known to be dangerous enough, hopefully a vaccine can come about soon
• yo' can friggin' live with the minor inconvenience ya' cry-baby :)
• no, you don't have to wear the darn thing when on your own, at home, in your backyard, in your "bubble", whatever

Heh, are you trying to repeat Stove's competition? (Stop me if I am spoiling it!) — SophistiCat

Admittedly that was one motivation. :)
I thought periodic nominees and winners could be nifty, and the forums a good place for it.
(Perhaps even kind of relevant with the fake dis- mis-information out there.)

Antisemitism in Christianity (Wikipedia)
Adam Weishaupt (Wikipedia)
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Wikipedia)
The New World Order (Robertson book) (Wikipedia)
Conspiracy theory (Wikipedia)

Mental pollution, fear, hatred, zeal ... turned Us-versus-Them is a favorite pass-time of some people.

Neurotic apes doing our thing?

Hey all, I kind of had examples in mind, maybe like "look what was in the Daily Planet", or "check this out", preferably somewhat short and identifiable, so as to show what not to do.

Because you shouldn't trust that Bill Gates creep. He's pro population reduction and you don't know what he might stick in that vaccine to get his way. — Ergosum

You think he's mixing it in his basement lab or something? At night?

(play theme from The Twilight Zone here)

, might depend on what's meant by subjective/objective.

If subjective means ad hoc fiat, discretionary opinion, random, then morals don't seem subjective.

On the other hand, with

• subjective: existentially mind-dependent
• objective: existentially independent

consider some analogies:

1. some are loved, some are hated, many have known love, many have known hate
2. after an extinction, love and hate could be rediscovered
3. so, love and hate are existentially independent of any one person

Further:

4. love and hate are phenomenological experiences, qualia or whatever
5. phenomenological experiences are existentially mind-dependent
6. so, love and hate themselves are subjective

The likes of love and hate can be parts of us, but not of rocks.
They're ontological constituents of us when occurring, and can also be wholly absent (e.g. pre-life, extinct) and come about again (e.g. rediscovered recurrence), without themselves existing independently.
Asserting otherwise might be charged with externalizing hypostatization or the like.

Seems (to me at least) that the objective versus subjective dichotomy is misleading here.

There are many two-legged individuals, they all have that in common, fairly simple information, two legs.
Yet, we don't therefore conclude that "two-legged-ness" itself somehow exists independently.

Commonality does not entail independence.

Likewise for morals and autonomous moral agency.

Are morals particularly related to (a)theism in the first place, though?
The likes of divine command theory and theological voluntarism aren't, they're just rule-following.
Gods aren't around to answer things either; useless.
Even given some such rule, in any given situation, you'd still have to decide if following it is the right thing to do.
Autonomous moral agency is where it's at; morals are better exemplified, than predefined rules.
So we better cultivate moral awareness (like embrace our humanity socially); it's down to us, always was.

Brief retrospect:

2016: prior counts, Trump warns of rigged elections
2016: after counts, Trump makes fun of sore losers
2016: Trump says recounts would be a scam to delegitimize him

Trump Administration's Mishandling of the Coronavirus Response by Congresswoman Jackie Speier

2020: after counts, Trump claims invalid election, shooting lawsuits from the hip
2020: some make fun of Trump as a sore loser
2020: Trump has acquired cult followers making threats, some spend their time searching for an illusive yet extensive election boogeyman

You'd think a population of 300 million could pick better, more competent, reliable leaders?
I guess, of a larger population, mad fringe can also be proportionally larger, more visible/seductive?

Hmm...
What would non-individuated self-awareness be? Doesn't seem right.
Maybe just consciousness without self-awareness then?
Isn't consciousness conscious of something? (Didn't someone once comment on that, maybe Kant, Hume, Descartes?)

The discontent with the US Elite-versus-Commoner thing (and "the swamp" and "class divide" etc), aren't those issues related to US free enterprising and capitalism...?
Just seems odd to keep pointing elsewhere, to keep emphasizing lower taxes and less government, and the ordinary family still expecting to readily be able to put their kids through a solid educational system equally available to everyone, reliable health care, etc.
Wouldn't you want government to facilitate and organize such likes, since government is employed by voters in the first place?
That's not an objection to capitalism, just seeing the US situation as odd.

Some years back, I posted "Time and such" in the Metaphysics & Epistemology section.
Seems to me that the block-verse (or eternalism) is incomplete in some way.
Works great as a descriptive device, but maybe reification without further ado is unwarranted.
Presentism is kind of worse, though, so this stuff can keep philosophers busy. :)
Don't let it depress you.

OAN represents the dark side of free speech. To be sent running with more free speech. Just so darn time-consuming.

I wager even you will be longing for a Trump presidency before long — NOS4A2

I have no ability to predict future events, so why would you want to hear me try? — NOS4A2

Hm?
Anyway, seems kind of odd that, out of millions of Americans, lots of cool people, Trump and Biden of all people would be the two candidates.

Trump's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing. — free adaptation from an old play

I'm sure there'll be lots more strutting and fretting, sounds and fury. ;)

Donald Trump supporters rock back and forth while praying for his election win (Jacob Henry, Metro News, 6 Nov 2020)

Weird. Maybe some folk are just goners and Trump managed to herd them in?

Stephen Colbert will have to find a new line of work, presumably. — StreetlightX

Even Stephen Colbert can't laugh at Trump anymore after his last press conference — Stephen Colbert Reacts to Trump's Thursday Election Presser (NowThis News, 3m:3s youtube, Nov 2020)