, so, back to the inquiry, what the heck was the Kremlin to do with that, with what UA wanted?

^{(↑ still part of the analysis)}

, some cherry-picked suggestive single phrases by Rice (2014), Nuland (Jan 2022), Biden (Feb 2022), since denied by the way, to go with Sy + Rose...? And therefore the US + Norway sabotaged Nord Stream...? Nah, credulous/sought, doesn't make the cut. Pareidolic. With a bit of luck, German investigators find something though, perhaps something to substantiate your hypothesis.

Like A Glove: Nord Stream Pipeline Sabotage and American Foreign Policy
^{— Luis Tomas Orozco · The Yale Review Of International Studies · Apr 19, 2023}

at any rate, this is just speculation.

Peripherally related:

New west-east route keeps Europe hooked on Russian gas
^{— America Hernandez, Marwa Rashad, Pietro Lombardi, Nerijus Adomaitis, Kate Abnett, Christoph Steitz, Vera Eckert, Julia Payne, Francesca Landini, Nora Buli, Andrius Sytas, Angeliki Koutanto, Sergio Goncalves, Dmitry Zhdannikov, Barbara Lewis · Reuters · Apr 3, 2024}

, I'm guessing most on the thread know about this point of yours, since you've repeated it a few times.
My inquiry was a different one, though.
You departed therefrom again once having mentioned the Vietnamese — a comment I took to mean that what UA wanted was real enough, as opposed to a US plot (I suppose we might have enquired into both possibilities, but no matter).
So, implications of what they wanted, what to do with that (by the Kremlin)?

^{(↑ part of the analysis)}

On the Nord Stream thing, Sy + Rose = your (sole) source...? :brow:
Earlier on, the Swedish (+ Danish) investigators handed their material over to the German investigators, who have yet to release any findings; going by memory, further investigation fell within German jurisdiction/purview.
Also, going by memory again, some Asian ship apparently damaged something on the sea floor around the same time, perhaps by accident.
It's not settled.

, I guess you think that what they wanted was genuine (in lack of a better word), as opposed to instigated by the US? That's consistent with their efforts to join the EU anyway; they're trying, apparently against the tide of the Kremlin's efforts.

Some developments so far: — Mar 8, 2024

The election was recognized as free and fair.⁽⁴⁾ — 2019 Ukrainian presidential election (Wikipedia)

• Accession of Ukraine to the European Union » Candidacy (Wikipedia)

OK, if we run with that (genuine), then we might ask about implications, including/especially for the Kremlin, or in the eyes of the Kremlin, and they don't look favorable according to their aspirations.

When freedom and sovereignty themselves are perceived as threats then we get results like what we're seeing (word, infra, civil, grab). Too bad for Ukraine, eh? — Mar 11, 2024

By and large fairly straightforward.

Looking at other Russian neighbors, who want to see Ukraine become like another Belarus? :down: Another Baltics? :up: (What about where to raise kids?) Pick your poison? The Ukrainians chose a path. Putin makes a point about Russians + Ukrainians, then, instead of setting up programs to foster relations, he sets out to bomb them into compliance.

Wait, you still claim having the scoop on the Nord Stream thing? :D

, maybe, but you responded to something else. Here :point:

↪Tzeentch, what UA wanted was [really] a US plot [instead]? — Apr 1, 2024

^{(↑ part of the analysis)}

Is the US ready...?

Pro-PRC DRAGONBRIDGE Influence Campaign Leverages New TTPs to Aggressively Target U.S. Interests, Including Midterm Elections
^{— Mandiant · Oct 26, 2022}
Pro-CCP ‘Spamouflage’ network pivoting to focus on US Presidential Election
^{— Elise Thomas · ISD · Feb 15, 2024}
Much Ado About ‘Somethings’
^{— Max Lesser, Ari Ben Am, Margot Fulde-Hardy, Saman Nazari, Paul J Malcomb · FDD · Mar 27, 2024}

How effective are these campaigns anyway? When I encounter these stories (or effects thereof), it's almost always from US MAGA'ers.

I guess that's a way to have others do their bidding ...

Czechia busts Russian propaganda network targeting European elections
^{— Martin Fornusek · The Kyiv Independent (Deník N, Der Spiegel, Le Monde) · Apr 1, 2024}

Seems serious enough; we'll see what comes of it, if anything. Those folk should have taken the €$, told security everything, donated €$/2 to the homeless — live life on the edge. ;)

, what UA wanted was a US plot?

There have been some reports of thermobaric bombs (2022Mar1, 2022Nov17, 2024Mar16), this time Velyka Pysarivka (between Sumy (↖nw) and Kharkiv (↘se)) was reportedly hit:

They staged round-the-clock terror: what a dangerous bomb the Russians used in Sumy Oblast
^{— Victoria Grabovska · Channel 24 · Mar 28, 2024}
Footage of the arrival of ODAB-1500 at the location of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in the border area of the Sumy region is shown
^{— ilyaros · Military Review · Mar 28, 2024}
Russia used the ODAB-1500 heavy aerial bomb in Ukraine for the first time.
^{— BILD · Mar 30, 2024}

Detonation levels an area of some 500 m², diameter about 25 m, though you want to be further away when one goes off.

It is a proxy war between the US and Russia. Easy to see why. — Mikie

That's your response? Maybe give it some more thought. There's a war between Russia (invader with support) and Ukraine (defends with support). This part is not a narrative. Trivial. For most anyway.

"the US is waging a proxy war against Russia that Ukraine is being caught up in" is about as misleading (or helpful/relevant) as "North Korea / Iran waging proxy war against Ukraine" — Mar 31, 2024

Seen this elsewhere-blaming finger-pointing misleading Ukraine-sidelining distraction already.

In the news, imperialist hegemony :D

Bulgaria and Romania join the Schengen area
^{— The EU · Mar, 30 2024}

, I'll try clarifying for you, let me bullet'ify some observations (repeats) ...

• Ukraine was the one being invaded — invaded by Russia at the Kremlin's orders, who wasn't invaded or attacked, tracing back to what the Ukrainians wanted, which likely would lead to Kremlin loss of control/influence — see "demilitarization", NATO or not

• Ukraine's supporters have been tiptoeing around Russia with resources, an observation that's been appropriated for a "drip feed hypothesis" — tiptoeing here also involved dis/agreeing discussing debating quarreling back-and-forth, domestically and internationally, bureaucracy, "many voices" to accommodate, contrary to how authoritarian regimes typically work — organized proxy warring ≠ rowing, okie that at least ain't it

• Ukraine has made it clear over and again, they want the Kremlin to leave them be, and are looking westward instead, to Putin's dismay — anyone can see that (even through the Kremlin-inspired fog)

• "the US is waging a proxy war against Russia that Ukraine is being caught up in" is about as misleading (or helpful/relevant) as "North Korea / Iran waging proxy war against Ukraine" — the Kremlin started the war against Ukraine whom are defending (including what they wanted) — so, misdirection or "blindness" or something

But, hey, if we're just talking materially supporting one team, then sure. Is that what you mean? (Right, as mentioned, it's come up before.)

And the Nazis are Nazi-propaganda is important to understand the war — boethius

Nah, please don't repost that stuff again (again), already been seen far and wide. (Presumably you know how to use links.) Problem is that once you water it down to any truth of the matter, then all become liable, including, if not especially, the Russia from where the accusations originate. It's been reiterated, but seemingly ignored (by you).

actually Westernisation was the Western way to also “denazify” Ukraine, while Russia has no problems to support neo-nazi militia if they are pro-Russian — neomac

Fair, Ukraine aspires to join the EU, has shown willingness to reform.

:D

this proxy war — Mikie

• Ukraine was the one being invaded. Invaded by Russia at the Kremlin's orders. Which wasn't invaded, or attacked.
• North Korea and Iran are waging a proxy war against Ukraine...? (Not that it matters, but I wouldn't say so personally.) By certain thinking (like motivated reasoning) they could end up being seen that way. By some anyway.

Well, it might be more "interesting" to blame someone else (like an exercise perhaps). And what the Ukrainians themselves wanted — apparently contrary to what the Kremlin wants for Russians — is hence "argumentatively" sidelined thereby:

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of Russia and oligarchs, police brutality, human rights violations,^(29)(30) and repressive anti-protest laws.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

Is that "the Ukrainian people being caught up in this a proxy war"? Getting old. In this thread at least.

I'm not really seeing a whole lot of officials/politicians of the larger countries in the world — China, the US, India, Brazil, ... — whine ever on about this dire existential threat to them. I guess Putin's Russia must be special. Ironically, instead, Ukraine, a smaller country, has clear and present evidence towards that by Russia's hands. Maybe the southern US border thing can be amplified to that purpose?

If it turns out the US was involved in this attack, and I honestly find that quite plausible (even though it's far from certain what happened), we are looking at a new low in western foreign politics - an all-time low, perhaps - and it would be further evidence that the United States is looking to escalate the conflict. — Tzeentch

Of course. (Or are we talking the Deep State CIA Masons?) Looks like a poor assumption.

US secretly warned Iran before ISIS terror attack
^{— Natasha Bertrand · CNN · Jan 25, 2024}
US repeatedly warned Russia ahead of Moscow attack, White House says
^{— The Guardian · Mar 28, 2024}

For that matter ...

Exclusive: Iran alerted Russia to security threat before Moscow attack
^{— Parisa Hafezi, Nazarali Pirnazarov, Steve Holland, Jonathan Landay, Michael Georgy, Gareth Jones · Reuters · Apr 1, 2024}

supporting the Nazis — boethius

Reiterating (again), Russian officials claim that Kyiv is a Nazi regime, and Ukraine is to be deNazified and demilitarized. That's one pillar of their justification, and it's nonsense lapped up by the gullible and susceptible to Kremlin story-telling.

Reflexive control came up again in ISW's analyses. Dis/mal/misinformation, manipulation, get others to speak the Kremlin's case, in addition to the shooting and bombing, are parts of their multipronged campaigns. By the way, the article seems to run contrary to some posters.

Denying Russia’s Only Strategy for Success
^{— Nataliya Bugayova, Frederick W Kagan, Kateryna Stepanenko · ISW · Mar 27, 2024}

Russia cannot defeat Ukraine or the West - and will likely lose - if the West mobilizes its resources to resist the Kremlin. The West’s existing and latent capability dwarfs that of Russia.

The notion that the war is unwinnable because of Russia’s dominance is a Russian information operation, which gives us a glimpse of the Kremlin’s real strategy and only real hope of success.

The Russian strategy that matters most, therefore, is not Moscow’s warfighting strategy, but rather the Kremlin’s strategy to cause us to see the world as it wishes us to see it and make decisions in that Kremlin-generated alternative reality that will allow Russia to win in the real world.

Using the term "the West" like so suggests a homogeneity that's not quite there as of typing, though — incidentally, perhaps due to reflexive control and all that in part. They conclude the article with some strategies against the Kremlin.

EDIT typo, minor updates

, don't forget the Sunni (85-90% worldwide) versus Shia (Iran, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Bahrain) conflict. Internal to Islam, they're not seeing eye-to-eye, to the point of violence now and then.

We watched 3 Body Problem :nerd:

Vladislav Inozemtsev lives life on the edge. Kremlin critique can be unhealthy. :) He's not far off the mark.

There is no food, no drinks. We are eating plants. We started eating pigeon food, donkey food — victim

25 children have died of starvation — David Miliband

... due to existing food trucks being turned back, either at crossing points or inside Gaza. Some trucks with medical supplies turned back because a pair of surgical scissors deemed a security threat. As mentioned by Miliband, it's kind of an immediate crisis, not about rhetoric or whatever.

Apparently, decisions to block the trucks are being made by whatever (overzealous) troops on the spot. Do you think more pressure on Netanyahu can get them to issue orders to let humanitarian aid through?

, maybe they're seeking to justify whatever military endeavors and changes to the economy.
Could also help take domestic minds off Putin having seized power seemingly indefinitely.
^{(↑ straightforward and plausible anyway, conspiracy theorists might even say something like this was their plan all along)}


A Russian friend of a friend living in France, about two years back...

Every morning I wake up before Anton and reach for my phone to watch the news. When Anton opens one eye, the first thing I report is: Kyiv is standing, Zelensky is alive. — Anna Frid · Mar 15, 2022

... Kyiv/Zelenskyy being representative against the Gremlin I think.

I guess this has become a part of everyday life in Kyiv:

This Kyiv florist captured a missile attack on CCTV (— Anastasiia Shulha · Reuters via CBC · Mar 21, 2024 · 42s)

... Busy traffic on the street in the background.

Reminds me a bit of some radio stations during the 2nd world war:

Reporters Without Borders launch satellite to reach Russian-speaking territories (— Euronews · Mar 22, 2024) | via RSF/RWB

Coverage: Russia, the Baltics, occupied territories of Ukraine. Will satellite dishes be banned by the Kremlin?

There have been several reports on this stuff by now:

Deportation and re-education: life in Russian-occupied areas of Ukraine (— Shaun Walker, Pjotr Sauer · The Guardian · Mar 6, 2024)
UK Defence Intelligence: Russia may be preparing to deport residents of occupied territories of Ukraine (— European/Ukrainska Pravda · Mar 11, 2024)

Haven't heard anyone in the West purposing that Poland, even Romania, would take large parts of Ukraine — ssu

Yeah, I don't get it... It's...random... Like plucked out of the thin air...

So, how to not "provoke" the Kremlin (and North Korea)? I guess it depends on their plans...?

No military (or related change/activity) in the vicinity, whether reactionary or not? I.e. lower defenses because they're offenses...?

Nothing toward democracy freedom humanitarianism all that, no pressure, no sanctions, no frozen assets — that's all propaganda, meddling, illegal, interference, provocation. Free reins (or "blindness") would presumably not provoke. (Though I'm not quite sure what Kim Jong Un would do with that.)

As to the Kremlin and Ukraine: no Ukrainian defense to speak of. Alternatively, capitulation.

As to North Korea, while not shy about nuclear tests and shooting missiles, it seems just about anything (sometimes nothing in particular) elicits an angry response.


What's the Kremlin circle been up to? Some strategic steps to undermine democracy and extend geographically, well-known to history:

• attain (political) power by intimidation (Pompey used military)
• manipulate popular support, achieve cult status (check Caesar)
• marginalize government bodies (Augustus sidelined the Senate)
• gain control of judiciary, fix courts (per Banno)
• seize and constrain communication (media), employ in service

▸ geopolitically divide et impera
▸ instigate conflicts and alter economy accordingly

How much of such like has the Kremlin circle accomplished? (Putin, Patrushev, Bortnikov, others.) A decades-long coup?

62-year-old manages to get a couple hundred shots over two and a half years...?
More than one a week on average?
Criminal charges weren't filed against him, though likely fraudulent.
Anyway, doctors studied him:

Scientists Studied Man Who Claimed To Have Had 217 COVID Shots. Here’s What They Found.
^{— Nina Golgowski · HuffPost · Mar 7, 2024}

Medvedev is a top official, but comes through like a rambling comedian these days. He wasn't always, so what happened anyway? (Here's a detailed story from Jun 27, 2023.) Back on Jul 27, 2022, he posted the Kremlin's plan for Ukraine according to him: ^{ERRATA below}

Before "the special military operation":



And after:



Ukraine left as a small region around Kyiv, Russia having absorbed most, the rest divided between Poland and Romania, with a small snack for Hungary. At least Moldova is untouched (until further notice). On Dec 19, 2023, Putin suggested something similar. Well, anti-Ukraine rhetoric is easy enough to find, especially (but not always) from the Kremlin circle. I suppose, if those other countries can be turned against Ukraine, then who knows? A week prior:

Now the geography is different, it's far from being just the DPR and LPR, it's also Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions and a number of other territories. This process is continuing logically and persistently. — Lavrov (Jul 20, 2022)

On Mar 4, 2024, he presented the same maps again at the Russian 2024 World Festival of Youth in front of a large audience, held just south of Sochi. (By the way, a somewhat similar map was posted on Mar 24, 2022 by the late Illia Kyva.)

Ukraine certainly is Russia — Medvedev (Mar 4, 2024)

Whatever one makes of it, some analysts have commented. The irredentist rhetoric has been seen on many occasions by now. There is sort of a consistency here, whether calculated for intimidation, plain propaganda, or more.

ERRATA (thanks ):

In the brain of the President of Ukraine, damaged by psychotropic substances, the following picture of the bright future of his country arose (Fig. 1).
Western analysts believe that this will actually be the case (Fig. 2). — Medvedev

@BitconnectCarlos, @RogueAI, ..., I think it goes both ways.
Radicals (anyone really) grabbing land at gunpoint should be jailed.
Caveat emptor, selling land should be approved accordingly.
Until then it's an untrustworthy pseudo-legal system. Al Capone style.

, news coverage around here (or at least what I've seen) gradually changed from the initial attack, to the hostage situation and invasion, to the humanitarian crisis, plus various demonstrations/protests and violence (either side). Still covered regularly. There hasn't been much on the broader conflict though, I guess that's not so much news as it is history. Both the Hamas top and Netanyahu seem to agree on violence and not peace, so it's not looking good.

, this is straightforward bias (and flirting with ad hominem):

— "Israelis commit these-and-those humanitarian offenses"

— "calling Palestinians misogynists and homophobes is just you saying we're better than them"

Both exemplify humanitarian violations.
The latter issues are much the same for, say, Brunei, whatever middle African places, ...

(y)

How's this for a really brief summary then?

After WW2, others gave Jewish survivors places not theirs to give. Conflict. Israel established. Jews turn some desert into not-desert. Periodic escalation. Some Jews grab land at gunpoint. Israelis and Palestinians treated differently, discrimination by both. Both lay religio-historical claims to areas. Regular violence. Israel has military upper hand, larger region has non-Jewish population upper hand. Jews fear being removed for good. No peace in sight and no common law and order.

Will is required in both camps to improve the situation regardless of partisanship, yes?

(please note, Weiss is a Jewish Israeli, which is reflected in the article)

Are Americans getting even dumber? - opinion
^{— Stewart Weiss · The Jerusalem Post · Feb 9, 2024}

I resent his comic book comments. :nerd:

The article reads like Weiss believes that the Hebrew Bible is all literal history, which I (personally) find ingenuous and kind of ridiculous. But, I guess it does give a religio-historical justification for his opinions. Anyone is free to believe so of course, yet once such beliefs affect others, then it becomes others' concern. And this applies to both parties in the present conflict.

(It's entirely possible I read too much into it.)

Answering the title question, though, can be done without reading the article.

2024 voting in occupied Ukraine:

_{Russians bring in security forces for sham presidential elections in Ukraine's occupied territories
^{— Tetyana Oliynyk · Ukrainska Pravda · Feb 28, 2024}
Russia increases police and military presence in occupied Ukrainian territories ahead of sham presidential ‘elections’ - NRC
^{— Alla Shcherbak · The New Voice of Ukraine · Mar 3, 2024}
What to know about Russia’s presidential election, set to give Putin another six-year term
^{— Katie Marie Davis, Dasha Litvinova · AP · Mar 10, 2024}
On Russian TV ahead of the election, there’s only one program: Putin’s
^{— Emma Burrows · AP · Mar 11, 2024}
Moscow 'to falsify' votes in occupied Ukrainian regions
^{— Oleksandra Vakulina · Euronews · Mar 11, 2024}
Ukraine-based Russian armed groups claim raids into Russia
^{— Jaroslav Lukiv · BBC · Mar 12, 2024}
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
^{— Vitaly Shevchenko · BBC · Mar 13, 2024}
Viewpoint: Russian authorities seek strong election showing for Putin
^{— Jonathan House · GZERO · Mar 13, 2024}
Russia's 2024 presidential election: What is at stake and what is not
^{— Caprile Anna · European Parliament · Mar 13, 2024}
UK intelligence explains how residents of temporarily occupied territories are forced to vote for Putin
^{— European/Ukrainska Pravda · Mar 13, 2024}}

Your mileage may vary. The articles are by and large consistent, though. And the Kremlin denies transparency / independent monitoring. I'd like to have seen Duntsova with a strong open free campaign, coverage, country-wide.

[...] Putin and Russian ideologists (like Dugin) have been actively engaged in exporting and supporting such far right movements abroad (https://www.justsecurity.org/68420/confronting-russias-role-in-transnational-white-supremacist-extremism/).
Not surprisingly Russian neo-nazi militia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism_in_Russia#Groups) are the ones involved in Euromaiden and the conflict in Donbas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_separatist_forces_in_Ukraine). — neomac

And the invading Russians have installed people they allegedly sought to do away with. For that matter, Kadyrov's Chechnya resembles Nazi rule noticeably more.

But their Nazi thing is a great (rabble-rousing) rhetorical/propaganda device (like sort of extending The Great Patriotic War), and that's what it is here, bullshit or lying, ready to get picked up by others. How do you talk with someone who doesn't care about truth? Maybe that's why Kyiv cut lines to Moscow.

From memory, this campaign of theirs started also accusing other countries of Nazism, sometimes covertly (e.g. university campuses), but they didn't continue like for Ukraine.

The drip feed — boethius

... idea suggests a single point of decision, like monolithic or "one voice". Yet, that's the kind of thing that happens in autocracies. Ukraine's supporters are broad and wide, they discuss debate quarrel, back-and-forth, dis/agree alike, both domestically and internationally, subject to whatever bureaucracy, you name it, "many voices" (to accommodate). Should be evident enough. Too bad perhaps, but Ukraine's supporters are readily susceptible to divide et impera.

neo-nazis [...] I can post the videos of Western reportage on the nazis and corruption again [...] Nazis [...] nazi [...] Nazi — boethius

I point out my primarily responsibility: Western policy. — boethius

Hmm Your responsibility? (For the occasion?) :halo: Anyway, when will we then see something about your domestic extremists? (Does Hells Angels count? Actually, they're international.) By the way, what the Ukrainians wanted is consistent with "Western policy", the Kremlin not so much.

Maybe it was Putin's intention — boethius

Geo-power-military-political aspirations include long-term control over Ukraine ... irredentism, "demilitarization", anti-NATO/defense, land grabbing (no independence), Mearsheimer (Crimea), vision ("destiny"), industrial strength nationalist propaganda, a variation of imperialism/neo-colonialism (according to some), ... Loss of control (threat, danger) → act :fire:. Potential loss of control (risk) → act :fire:. Threats dangers risks include Ukrainian (and Russian) free democracy, strong Ukrainian defense (like NATO), Ukraine steadily looking away from Russia towards the EU (or "West").

(↑ not new in the thread)

AI (voice only) :D

AI Trump: The Second Campaign Ad (2024 Mar 6 · 1m:29s)
AI Biden: The REAL State Of The Union (2024 Mar 7 · 1m:31s)

:D What a circus

'More than a majority' of RNC members want to help pay Trump's legal bills: insiders
^{— Travis Gettys · Raw Story · Mar 6, 2024}
Bloodbath at RNC: Trump team slashes staff at committee
^{— Alex Isenstadt · POLITICO · Mar 11, 2024}

The Clown supporters I've chit-chatted with don't think about or care that their efforts add to efforts beyond their neighborhood against them

Oh well

Posts like these seem tankie to me:

10 years since the far-right coup in Kiev
^{— A Ukrainian socialist · World Socialist Web Site · Feb 28, 2024}
In Kiev visit, Trudeau reaffirms Canadian imperialism’s support for US-NATO war on Russia
^{— Roger Jordan · World Socialist Web Site · Feb 28, 2024}

Ironically, they could have come straight off the Kremlin's propaganda press, and Putin's Russia is not socialist. I'm more "socialist", in a democratic sort of sense anyway. TF? :D

In modern times, the term is used across the political spectrum and in a geopolitical context to describe those who have a bias in favor of authoritarian states that have socialist legacy and often anti-Western, as the Republic of Belarus, the People's Republic of China, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and the Russian Federation. Additionally, tankies are said to have a tendency to support non-socialist states with no socialist legacy if they are opposed to the Western world, regardless of their ideology,^(4)(11) such as [...] — Tankie (Wikipedia)

A tankie is a member of a communist group or a "fellow traveller" (sympathiser) who believes fully in the political system of the Soviet Union and defends/defended the actions of the Soviet Union and other accredited states (China, Serbia, etc.) to the hilt, even in cases where other communists criticise their policies or actions. For instance, such a person favours overseas interventions by Soviet-style states, defends these regimes when they engage in human rights violations, and wishes to establish a similar system in other countries such as Britain and America. [...] I wouldn't be surprised if the tankies even defend Saddam Hussein. — tankie (Urban Dictionary)

The World Socialist Web Site has been infiltrated by Putinistas or there be tankies (in a pejorative not-so-socialist sense), something like that. Can you tell which?

On a Russian perspective (Kremlin really), here are some options (inexhaustive), not mutually exclusive:

• ↓ Ukraine to develop on a self-chosen path
• ↓ maintain a Kharkiv Pact of sorts
• ↗ force Ukraine into a vision of Russia of theirs
• ↘ democratize

They're running with the 3rd and rejecting the others (so far), for all to see. :death:

Largest countries, further perspective: military, population, area

Apparent reasons are themselves straightforward enough ... (attempt to) assert control in order to implement their idea of what Russia ought to be; (attempt to) manage threats to said vision ... Common to invasions, power ambition resources etc, evident origin.

Here apparent threats risks dangers include ... Ukraine going its own way, e.g. democracy (can be unpredictable); NATO membership, or any strong defense; Ukraine increasingly looking to others (the EU) and decreasingly Russia (slipping away) ... Threats everywhere, poor Kremlin.

And threat management includes ... counter-threats; diversions, e.g. point fingers at others; muddle the waters; oppress, strangle, solidify ... Here be playbooks.

When freedom and sovereignty themselves are perceived as threats then we get results like what we're seeing (word, infra, civil, grab). Too bad for Ukraine, eh? They're not ready to get sucked down that drain.

Will we see an end to it? As it stands, is there any progress in sight or available?

^{(↑ taking available evidence into account is relevant, un/controversial main/fringe-stream less so)}

Great :/

Trump supporters target black voters with faked AI images
^{— Marianna Spring · BBC · Mar 4, 2024}
Fake images made to show Trump with Black supporters highlight concerns around AI and elections
^{— Matt Brown, David Klepper · AP · Mar 8, 2024}

I came here to discuss how democracy is just another term for homogenization of the masses. A homogenized mass is easier controlled. Gustave Le Bon's "The Crowd," can teach you that too. Same with Edward Bernays' "Propaganda."

Regardless, sorry there was some miscommunication that occurred. Amor Fati. — Vaskane

I think it depends.

People are ... taught a main language, rarely more than a couple others ... incentivized to not just shoot others on the street (e.g. minority protection) by law ^(†)(‡) ... "indoctrinated" with arithmetic ... enculturated regionally ...

Does that count as homogenization though?

Infinites can be counter-intuitive but are not themselves logically contradictory, e.g. Hilbert's Hotel and Shandy's Diary.

Here's an old attempt to derive a contradiction from infinite time:

• An argument that an infinite past is impossible (Nov 2, 2016)

And another:

Assumption (towards reductio ad absurdum): infinite temporal past.

Let's enumerate past days up to and including last Wednesday as: {..., -1, 0}. That is, there exists a bijection among those past days (including Wednesday) and the non-positive integers.

Now come Thursday.

We find that {..., -1, 0} cannot accommodate Thursday.

Let's (re)enumerate the same past days but including Thursday as: {..., -1, 0}. That is, there exists a bijection among those past days (including Thursday) and the non-positive integers.

We find that {..., -1, 0} can accommodate Thursday.

The two findings are contradictory: {..., -1, 0} both cannot and can accommodate Thursday.

Therefore the assumption is wrong, an infinite past is impossible.

This proof is also invalid (left as an exercise for the reader), so I failed once again in my attempt to necessitate a finite past.

Here's a story, not a proof, demonstrating counter-intuitive infinites:

Wittgenstein overhears someone saying "5, 1, 4, 1, 3. Done."
He asks what that was about, and they respond that they just finished reciting π backward.
"But, how old are you?"
"Infinitely old. I never started, but have been at it forever and finally finished."

Say, why finish right at that time, and not some other time, any other time in fact? No sufficient reason (which is metaphysics, not logic). Our intuitions violated.

I keep coming up short, suggesting that an infinite past (duration) is not logically contradictory/impossible. Maybe "seemingly absurd" is more fitting?

In some places you're not allowed to laugh...

We will no longer tolerate criticism of our democracy and allegations that it is not what it should be. Our democracy is the best, and we will continue to build it. — Pesky · RIA Novosti · Mar 6, 2024

Ironically, this was during a "Knowledge.First" marathon of the Russian "Knowledge" Society. :)

Russian missile may have targeted Zelenskiy, Greek PM, says Ukraine aide
^{— Yuliia Dysa, Bernadette Baum, Gareth Jones · Reuters · Mar 7, 2024 (— WION 3m:7s)}

Further troubles if the Greek Prime Minister had been killed? I'm guessing much noise, but nothing drastic. There are a few examples of Russian attacks, not particularly military (infra, civil). Coming up with denials excuses rejections isn't hard, whatever the truth of the matter.

Observation: A few comment as if Russia is invisible, "the unmentioned attacker", the Kremlin a machine in a Siberian basement somewhere, blind to the Kremlin circle, only to repeatedly go "NATO bad" "Ukraine sh¡thole" "US evil" ... I guess it's up to others to pick up the slack?

Was just going over some analyses of seemingly influential dis/mal/misinformation campaigns, maybe I'll post something later. Will likely remain applicable for the foreseeable future.

Part of what I'm also seeing (personally) is a Ukraine trying to develop past the sticky (post)Soviet shadow, trying to free themselves from the dominating regressive authoritarian north+east neighbor, trying to make new friends if you will. But then they're sh¡t all over by some instead — "Nazis" "Banderas" "Genociders" "Beggars" "Burdens" "CIA-puppets" "Fools" "Betrayers" "Underlings" what-have-you — prior having allowed them to try. Well, some people are decency-challenged. Bombed all over too, by a Kremlin seemingly lost to keep them from developing/trying, while working hard at reasserting control over them. Trying is a pertinent part of what's going on, which admittedly takes time.

What they wanted: (Different in Russia...? :chin:)

Protesters opposed what they saw as widespread government corruption and abuse of power, the influence of Russia and oligarchs, police brutality, human rights violations,^(29)(30) and repressive anti-protest laws.⁽²⁹⁾ — Revolution of Dignity (Wikipedia)

At least with support they've proven more than a mouthful for the world's largest country. Good for them I guess. And in mentioned north+east (check "I want the Soviet Union back" :fire: :grin:):

• What young Russians in Saint Petersburg think about Putin? (2023 Jan 10 · 11m:53s)
• Should we invade Finland and Sweden before they join NATO? (2023 Mar 7 · 10m:45s)
• Rural Russians, why do you support Putin if you live poorly? (2023 Dec 26 · 8m)

Russians and Ukrainians will live exactly as befits brothers and good neighbors after the implementation of the goals of the special operation. — Sergey Lavrov · 2024 Jan 22

For them (the West - TASS) this is about improving their tactical position, but for us this is about our destiny, a matter of life and death. I wanted people that will listen to this [interview with Carlson] to realize that. It’s not up to me to judge whether it hit the mark or not. — Vladimir Putin · 2024 Feb 18

Some developments so far:

The election was recognized as free and fair.⁽⁴⁾ — 2019 Ukrainian presidential election (Wikipedia)

• Accession of Ukraine to the European Union » Candidacy (Wikipedia)

Wouldn't it be cool if Mr Bush, Mr Putin, and various (politically) related persons, headed to The Hague for public hearings and inquiries (and potential trials, depending)? :)

(end rant, and pardon my French)

, alternative brief: "Witty defender of democracy retires"