There's a great book by Stephen Schwartz about this called The Two Faces of Islam. — Tom Storm

Thanks, I'll check that out. I'm trying to deepen my understanding of Islam.

argued quite vociferously for years now that Islam desperately needs a reformation — Tom Storm

Yes. It’s a religion that’s gone through many phases; our western perception of it is not an accurate picture of what it’s been for the majority of its history.

Yeah, that’s definitely what happened and the reason why blasphemy isn’t tolerated.

No problem. I know you're coming from a good place here. Rushdie getting stabbed is upsetting to anyone with a moral center and a pulse. I feel it too. But Islam is a dizzyingly complex religion, so I felt the need to push back and add a few comments.

Emoji affirmed.

I suggested I would laugh at a "Shia mainstream" because it's like asking about a Coptic Christian mainstream. It's a niche religious position, so the concept of a "mainstream" version of a niche faction is laughable. You originally asked if the stabbing was consistent with "mainstream Muslim theology", which is not Shia theology. You're begging the question now. By the way, I love Clarky but I think he's overreacting a bit.

with a disambiguation needed for the term "Muslim" needed by me. — Hanover

W0t?

Should the OP have read "mainstream Shia Muslim theology," is your response "yes" to those 154 to 200 million adherents? — Hanover

If the the OP had read "mainstream Shia Muslim theology" I would have laughed.

Sunni's are the vast majority, so the answer to the question of whether the attack was consistent with mainstream Islam is no.

The fatwa was from a Shia. 15% of Muslims are Shia, the rest are Sunni. I don't know if Sunnis would feel the need to address a Shia issue. Sunni leaders don't have any authority over Shias. — Tate

:up:

Ubik, Philip K. Dick: friggin amazing! — _db

:cheer: my favorite from him by far. Addictive, a fever-dream pace, hilarious, flamboyant, disturbing, horrifying all in one. And pretty damn short.

:up:

Just playing class clown and riffing on the title of the thread.

This thread sucks.

I'll check it out.

I know of Henry Cow, but haven't listened. Where should I start?

Yeah, Oceansize is a pretty niche cult band. I sort of grew up with the 90s guitar rock sound, so I don't mind it, but it's definitely dated. Which is a shame because Oceansize's musical ideas are pretty interesting, but it's definitely overshadowed by the dated sound. The kids tell me 90s grunge is coming back, though.

There seems to be an interesting niche of British music surrounding Cardiacs. Fascinating. I think I liked the first track you posted more, but this is interesting. Feels more proggy. Some Ian Anderson vibes or something.

If we're still trading tracks, this is the Oceansize magnus opus. The ending is profound.

Cool, I like the use of the horns on the first track. I definitely hear the Cardiacs vibe. How are they connected to Cardiacs? Also, as someone who moves in and out of different music circles, you might be the first person I know who has even heard of Cardiacs.



Oceansize is one of my favorite bands. One of their best:

I'll check them out tonight. I'm not a huge Cardiacs fan, but got into them through Oceansize; their lead singer Mike Vennart is a huge fan. You can maybe here some of the influence in the second half of this song, starting around 5:02:

I've never been asked not to smoke, but living in a big city, I would probably just move far enough away from the person and continue. As the Elephant mentioned, I'm not sure why you asked the question.

I've avoided Castaneda because I've read that the books were largely shown to be fictitious. Daskalos (as the Magus is called) is much more obscure of a figure, as far as I can tell, so there's less mythology surrounding him. I'm not aware of Markides' account as having been called into question. He's an anthropologist and seems trustworthy. You can even find interviews with Daskalos on youtube.

His ideas are a marriage of Christian mysticism and Hinduism, in a nutshell, which automatically attracted me. If you read mystic literature across disciplines, and then read this account, it's basically all the same thing. It's the Perennial Philosophy.

Do you watch Mythical Kitchen/listen to their podcast?

Despite the fact that mythology could be -sometimes- extravagant it shows us interesting metaphors. — javi2541997

This is what I'm talking about. In 2022 we view it as extravagant, but doubtless it wasn't viewed as such 2,000+ years ago. So what's the difference? What's the difference between our perception of reality in 2022 vs. the ancient Greek perception of reality in _____ year? If we define mythology as extravagant, it certainly wasn't defined as such at the time that it took shape. And no, the idea that it shows us metaphors is just us projecting our modern concepts of poetry and literature unto the past. The metaphor didn't even exist at the time.

I can't wrap my head around Greek mythology. It can't just be invented stories.

Yeah, I guess I'm saying that eye contact is universally beautiful. So I'm saying it's an experiential argument against your position where beauty is too relative of a term to define. I'm presenting the beauty of eye contact as an experiential evidence for beauty as being a real thing. And yes, this is a bit of an emotional or woo woo definition on my part, which I'm fine with. Maybe that's where we differ.

It's also weird that some eyes are considered more beautiful than other eyes. Maybe it's just personal, but why is it that sometimes you make eye contact with someone and feel that you've just been zapped with a laser? I don't know. I know this isn't high philosophy.

I often wonder whether being around here is worthwhile; it's certainly made more worthwhile by interlocutors who are serious, open-minded and of good faith such as yourself. — Janus

Thanks man. The same to you.

My advice is to not disparage your interlocutors.

My advice is to not disparage your interlocutors.

My advice is to not disparage your interlocutors.

My advice is to not disparage your interlocutors.

Cheers, thanks for the kind words, ND... — Janus

Cheers; apologies for not being around much. I should change that.

My advice is to not disparage your interlocutors.

@TiredThinker my advice is to ingnore @Bartricks.

:rofl: You are a gaslighting queen, major props.

:rofl: You are a gaslighting queen, major props.

And I am surprised you are having difficulty understanding me when you yourself had trouble understanding how our reason can make representations. — Bartricks

Shouldn't you not be surprised that I'm supposedly having difficulty understanding you?

What?

Why do you need a mouth to learn what relish means?

What?

It tells you what "relish" means.