By the way, every "being" that is alive has a conscience. Meaning that they know they are alive and most want to procreate and most will protect the offspring. Plants, animals, insects. Call it instinct but it's really not. There is actually a plan for everything.

God has no emotions, feelings, instincts, cravings, vices etc. It is emptiness and vastness. I believe in a higher power and if called God so be it . Something bigger and more profound than we can imagine created the place where we live but that's it. Now we just have to figure out what to do with our place and all the inhabitants, flora, fauna, etc.

Unfortunately for me I guess, I don't believe it.

in glory

He will come again to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end

Oh, I have read many, many books. I misspoke, Jesus according to Revelations will raise the faithful. I am well versed in the Catholic Bible including tthe catechisms and the Apocrypha. The Torah, the Koran and may other anecdotal books by rabbis, priests, imams etc. and none has a definitive answer which I guess is what faith is for...I am beginning to belive that what you imagine as you are dying is what comes true....heaven, reincarnation, star dust or just emptiness.

I am getting married in 2 weeks. What precipated this conversation is our vows. I do believe in God but not Jesus so I am sparring with the pastor on this one. I think the courthouse is the option we will take. but thank you for helping me think it through.

And who decides whom is lost? I am just boggled frankly. But it doesn't matter since I am an agnostic. I am just curious why it comes down to Jesus to decide who is risen and who dies. Seems a bit one sided honestly since he was born Jewish. So do all the Jews go to "hell" since they do not believe He is Christ Risen.

Hello wayfarer.
I found your posits quite interesting. My previous post was to tim wood so I hope there was not confusion. I don't agree however that Jesus was a divine illumination because the adjective "divine" could be construed as god like to which end I'm not entirely sure why that would be considered blasphemy. You summarized my point exactly [quote="Wayfarer;294681".

]Within the Eastern traditions, there is also a kind of universalist view, within which holy figures, even supremely holy figures, such as the Buddha, are a type or a kind, rather than a totally unique individual. Or, in Hinduism, there is the understanding that God or the gods manifest in various forms or 'avatars' (incarnations, and the origin of the term 'avatar'.)[/quote]

Isn't God or a higher power etc. universal and why would that power exclude any type of following?

Hmmm...lots to think about in your post but humanity has been fighting over Christianty for centuries so why so surprised that it is still happening? "Existence/reality is a trap that real Christians don't fall into. Or maybe every Christian has to fall into it, but real Christians find their way out." I don't agree. Life is a reality for Christians just as for Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims etc. and why would Christians want a way out? Isn't the key purpose to bring those who are lost to Jesus? I am still confused. I am sorry.

um sorry to interject but this convo makes me think of the post I sent just a few minutes ago. Please pardon me but I was wondering if the universe is actually "godless". You see I think it is but I also think it isn't and I haven't read Tolkien or Nietzche in over 20 years but I have read Camus and sometimes I agree with existentialism. Thanks for letting me post.