The true antithesis, not to this or that manifestation of the liberal-democratic-socialistic conception of the state but to the concept itself, is to be found in the doctrine of Fascism. For while the disagreement between Liberalism and Democracy, and between Liberalism and Socialism lies in a difference of method, as we have said, the rift between Socialism, Democracy, and Liberalism on one side and Fascism on the other is caused by a difference in concept. As a matter of fact, Fascism never raises the question of methods, using in its political praxis now liberal ways, now democratic means and at times even socialistic devices.

The Political Doctrine of Fascism - Alfredo Rocco

Personally, I’m against tariffs in principle. So I was skeptical of Trump’s moved here. But as leverage they seem to have their practical use.

And now Beijing wants a seat at the table.

“Beijing Prepares Its Opening Bid to Talk Trade With Trump”

https://www.wsj.com/world/china/beijing-prepares-its-opening-bid-to-talk-trade-with-trump-ccec3ca4?mod=hp_lead_pos3

Very nice. I’m glad you’ve read it. The best way to understand fascism is to understand what its creators were thinking, in my opinion.

And you’re right. That’s why Mussolini was willing to use any economic doctrine and policy to further his spiritual one. So fascism could be liberal one day and socialist the next.

I knew it as a general economic principle, sure. I didn’t know Mussolini used the phrase once in a speech or in a poster. So thanks for that.

I’m genuinely surprised that there aren’t more quotes, despite you saying there were several.

Yeah, I was specifically looking for quotes about fascism, by fascists, not a general phrase used by a multitude of politicians across many ideologies.

Which is why I linked to an English newspaper from 1938 for that quote. That doesn't count either?

I suppose it counts now, after the fact. Thanks, I’ll check it out.

A quote of your grandmother quoting Mussolini does not suffice, no.

I don’t think that’s true. One can search the discussion and see that Mussolini’s name hardly appears, especially with quotes.. Write “Trump” in there, however, and you’ll find the true thrust of the thread.

Mussolini has been quoted several times in this thread.

Right, by myself.

It’s that easy. Canadians are expected to arrive sometime today.

No one knows what fascism is. No one has read nor quoted any fascist writings to discuss. Until that time fascism remains as Orwell defined it: “The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’.” And anti-Trumpism colonizes another topic.

Didn't Trump say that the tariffs were imposed in an effort to cut down the flow of fentanyl?

He sure did.

I’m sure all those fired Inspector Generals were remarkable and upstanding characters, and whomever Trump appoints will be evil incarnated. The mythology couldn’t have it any other way. Here is a question for you, though: who is the one person in the world who has the authority to appoint and fire Inspector Generals? Is it Adam Schiff?

USAID is subject to the foreign policy guidance of the President, the Secretary of State, and the National Security Council. Sorry, but the policies you are used to are changing. The organization has spent close to half a century using American taxpayer money to improve Egypt’s economic growth, for example, and look how that has turned out. You get the thirty-year reign of Hosni Mubarak, who amassed a $70,000,000,000 fortune to some estimates, and $700,000,000,000 in others. Do you want FINAID to start throwing vast sums of your money around there, or any other country?

I know it hurts to be weaned from such sweet milk as American taxpayer dollars, but look at the debt. The spending is out of control and there are some good Europeans who sound like they want to help as much as the US does.

USAID on the chopping block.

Wouldn’t be bad. Anything is better than being tethered to the British crown.

First day of Trade War and here in Canada politicians are going nuts. In a fit of pantywaisted rage our lovely socialist premier decided to ban the sale of alcohol from “red states”, while the prime minister, who has already resigned, slapped a 25% tariff on all American goods. That’s a hefty tax on an already heavily-taxed populace. And given the uncompetitiveness and managed decline of this once free nation, it doesn’t look like it will last much longer.

Canada is a protectionist nation, still descending further into socialized, Keynesian mercantilism long past its due date. For example, its had over 200% tariffs on American milk and butter for decades, so as to establish dairy prices and manage supplies like a good interventionist government would. There isn’t even free trade between provinces, so this outrage is hilarious. But thanks to these tariffs the globalist government is speaking of lowering taxes and slashing regulations, which is unheard of. This might be the kick in the pants this nation needs.

Almost missed this one. Huge news.

PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP LAUNCHES MASSIVE 10-TO-1 DEREGULATION INITIATIVE

“The Order requires that whenever an agency promulgates a new rule, regulation, or guidance, it must identify at least 10 existing rules, regulations, or guidance documents to be repealed. “

https://www.whitehouse.gov/fact-sheets/2025/01/fact-sheet-president-donald-j-trump-launches-massive-10-to-1-deregulation-initiative/

That’s nice, especially from a nurse.

Oh man. After last year’s expose of NPR and their woke business model, and virulent anti-Trumpism, it makes you wonder why these tax-payer funded institutions exist in the first place, if not to pander to certain audiences.

F.C.C. Chair Orders Investigation Into NPR and PBS Sponsorships

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/30/business/media/npr-pbs-fcc-investigation.html

Let’s find out if they’re as crooked as their staff.

Hey, last administration you guys thought I was a Russian bot. Looks like your conspiracy theories have elevated me a bit in your hearts and minds. I appreciate that.

You want John Brennan and John Bolton to keep their security clearance? I wonder why…

It’s wonderful seeing the evil rot trimmed from the federal government. With the prices of these initiatives, it’s hard to imagine it could be anything else than money-laundering. There’s a politician or his friends getting kick-backs somewhere on the other side of these boondoggles, no doubt. There’s no other explanation.

Plus the overpaid, useless employees of the government needs purging. The CEO of the New Deal Tennessee Valley Authority is stepping down from his role, and his 10.5 million dollar a year paycheck. Shit like this needs to continue.

https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-valley-authority-tva-ceo-a243548291623ef36ca293144c5d9c5f

Finally, it’s time to turn the tables on the persecution and rid these agencies of the political henchmen, as appears to be occurring. It’s great to see them unceremoniously removed and denied security clearance.

Things are going swimmingly so far!

We experience only sensations. We sense only experiences. We see only sight. We feel only feelings. We think only thoughts.

In grammar it’s called nominalization. It’s also known as “zombie nouns”, because by adding the suffix and removing the active function from its verb-form you take the life out of the word. Like matter, yours are explanations as well, except they’re circular.

I remain unimpressed by your sources.

Probably because you haven’t read them.

When I look for fascistic features I generally don't look at social security, unemployment insurance, public works programs, and the like as examples. Or, was it the rapid marshaling of government programs that struck Mussolini as fascistic? Fascists are not alone in managing economies. Are programs which alleviate poverty fascistic in nature?

You’re right, such programs themselves are not an indication of fascism, since policy predate fascism. If anything welfare statism is the product of European conservatism. But fascism is totalitarian. So the closer one trends towards totalitarianism, the more fascist one can appear. And the idea that only the state can solve the world’s problems is a totalitarian idea.

Roosevelt was open about his admiration for the Prussian militaristic tradition, collectivism, and a strong militaristic state. Include on top of that the deluge of state propaganda during that time and we have a situation ripe for scathing criticism, especially from the laissez-faire inclinations of The Old Right, many of whom were proto libertarians.

I didn’t claim it. I cited a well-researched book from a German historian. It’s called The Three New Deals by Wolfgang Schivelbusch. I recommend it. Here’s some quotes from the arch-fascist himself:

The question is often asked in America and in Europe just how much ‘Fascism’ the American President’s program contains. Reminiscent of Fascism is the principle that the state no longer leaves the economy to its own devices, having recognized that the welfare of the economy is identical with the welfare of the people. Without question, the mood accompanying this sea change resembles that of Fascism. More than that cannot be said at the moment.

- Mussolini

You want to know what fascism is like? It is like your New Deal!

- Mussolini

With respect, Roosevelt had some pretty serious public problems o contend with: mass unemployment, homelessness, people literally starving. What he did actually helped the economy and the population get back on their feet. It's not quite the same as giving huge whacks of public money to one's political supporters.

Hitler did the same. It’s true that war economies work, especially when you have an army of unemployed young men and women at your disposals, but it’s not quite clear if the benefits outweigh the costs.

There is at least the potential of a public interest.

What would that be?

That seems overly simplistic, but tell me if you think the proposition ("The Public Weal Transcends the Interest of the Individual”) is intrinsically false - meaning that it's necessarily wrong in all respects and in all contexts.

There is no such thing as a “Public Weal”, just a bunch of people pretending they know what is and how to reach it. What they mean is their own interests transcend that of others, and that’s how it always turns out in practice.

There is a good book called The Three New Deals by Wolfgang Schivelbusch that details how similar the Fascist, National Socialist, and New deal programs were. Of course, to compare is not to equate, he writes, but all three of those leaders opposed liberalism, and desired a strong militarist and collectivist state.

Hitler told Ambassador William Dodd that he was “in accord with the President in the view that the virtue of duty, readiness for sacrifice, and discipline should dominate the entire people. These moral demands which the President places before every individual citizen of the United States are also the quintessence of the German state philosophy, which finds its expression in the slogan “The Public Weal Transcends the Interest of the Individual”’

That Nazi slogan “The Public Weal Transcends the Interest of the Individual” is the crux of fascism, found not only in Fascist iconography, but in Mussolini’s writings. I’ve heard variations of it uttered on this forum.

C.I.A. Now Favors Lab Leak Theory to Explain Covid’s Origins

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/25/us/politics/cia-covid-lab-leak.html

Narratives are turning.

The looming fascism game is a trend that also happened during Trump’s first term, and it’s a rather clever racket. Pundits, activists, and experts predict a looming fascism and play live-action-roleplay for a few years. But, when it never arrives, instead of admitting their predictions were wrong they credit themselves, their friends, and their brilliant foresight for having stifled it from happening.

Took so long into the Trump presidency? I guess how this discourse will go: remember FDR! The 22nd amendment is so new, just given in 1951.

They have to put that through likely before the midterms, as likely then the honeymoon is likely over.

Plenty Democratic members of Congress have introduced legislation to repeal 22nd Amendment, like Rep. Serrano, Rep. Barney Frank, Rep. Howard Berman and Senator Harry Reid. Therefor, fascism has been in America since at least the early 2000’s.

Actions alone can be judged as moral or immoral, morality is tied to what we do, not necessarily what we think or feel.

This is a very important point. The idea of immoral thoughts and feelings is quite pernicious, I think, and I believe a large subset of people take the opposite to be the case. Many governments go so far as to criminalize speech, for instance.

Yet, the voice, the mind, the feelings, release the least amount of kinetic energy, so little that neither could flit a feather, let alone cause pain or harm in other people. So there is still a moral superstition wherever thinking and speaking is concerned.

Oh dear. Standing by and doing nothing? Is that what you guys think?

The very first step to ending racism is to quit being racist. One cannot banish this demon by evoking it, institutionalizing it, and by teaching it in corporate board meetings. It’s why a couple years ago racial college admissions were roundly ruled unconstitutional: it violated the equal protections clause. Your interventions consisted in denying many people of Asian descent access to Harvard, not because they oppressed someone or did anything wrong, but because they had the wrong racial characteristics.

And that’s why claims of justice around this topic is a huge farce. You don’t in fact distinguish between the guilty and the innocent, the perpetrator or the victim, you distinguish only between so-called races, even where doing so is completely unjust and evil.

Ironically, those institutions that considered race in admissions were less diverse than those that didn’t.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/07/14/private-selective-colleges-are-most-likely-to-use-race-ethnicity-as-a-factor-in-admissions-decisions

Excited about this executive order.

DECLASSIFICATION OF RECORDS CONCERNING THE ASSASSINATIONS OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, SENATOR ROBERT F. KENNEDY, AND THE REVEREND DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/declassification-of-records-concerning-the-assassinations-of-president-john-f-kenned/

Using race as a factor in how to treat people or hire people or talk about people is racist, I’m afraid. You mentioned whites and assumed I was concerned about them, for example, even if I never mentioned nor even believe in such a grouping. This is how quickly your DEI training has morphed into routine racism and I am left to believe you employ the same logic to people you affiliate with any other race.

In anti-racist circles we don’t discriminate or even believe in such false demarcations.

You identified no lie. I referred to "apparent logic' - I drew an inference. An incorrect inference is not a lie. If you think my inference was indeed incorrect, then explain Trump's negative reaction to the Bishop's comments - specifically her statement that the vast majority of them are 'not criminals' but rather “good neighbors," (which is absolutely true) - which tacitly acknowledges that there are some criminals. Is it reasonable to expect a Christian bishop to focus on the minority that are criminals to a man that routinely overstates the situation and almost never demonstrates empathy? Is there something wrong with preaching a value consistent with her faith?

Well shoot, I still can’t find the phrase “illegal” in your quote or in the one you cited, even though that’s the word he used. Maybe you can bold it for me:

“She was nasty in tone, and not compelling or smart," said Trump, adding that Budde didn’t mention that some migrants have come to the United States and killed people.”

His apparent logic: because some immigrants have killed people, no immigrants (nor LGBTQ) are worthy of empathy.

I agree. Typically nations that are in peace might be vulnerable to sanctions, but a country that is transforming to a wartime economy doesn't care so much about it. They are already playing that game at a totally different cost level.

60 million deaths in WW2? I thought it was more like 20-30 million.

The difference is, it appears it won’t be filled with the typical symbolic crap, like when Biden violated the agreement with the Taliban by wanting to pull out of Afghanistan on September 11th, the anniversary of the World Trade Center attacks. And all that other cheapened rhetoric which serves only to further divide the people in that Slavic conflict.

No, whatever you were quoting lied, you were just happy enough to repeat it uncritically. Will you not even correct yourself and say he was speaking about illegal immigrants?

Illegal immigration is a crime punishable by law in the United States. If one doesn’t want to be called a criminal, there are legal means through which to immigrate to a country. The anti-immigrant sentiment is that which conflates the two.

The pandemic has already revealed that most of the so-called “liberal democracies” are at best illiberal, but at worst they’re fascist and totalitarian. In Australia they literally put people into camps for testing positive for COVID-19, for example. In Canada you had to show a vax pass to go to a restaurant. In the UK they’ll jail you for a tweet. It’s already here, it’s been here for a while, and we have a long way to go before we’re rid of any of it.

How so? Remember that I asked specifically about all aspects of DEI, not affirmative action.

It requires you to factor in people’s race or gender or sexuality as a factor in how you treat people. Do you do that?