So only philosophers can recognize or seek "the highest good"?

the highest good. — Shawn

What does "highest good", as you're using the term, mean or refer to?

So far everyone appears to know what a war crime is except me. Anyone care to fill me in? Anyone? — tim wood

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/war-crimes.shtml :roll:

The thesis statement of this thread is that axiology (the study of value) is the highest good. — Shawn

Your thesis statement is circular at best (e.g. the study of value is 'the highest value' :roll:).

What you keep saying has nothing to do with what I've written. "Appreciation" is irrelevant to my concerns as expressed here .

Isn't the negation of disvalue, the meaning of appreciation - — Shawn

No.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/902327

or maybe you meant this in terms of aesthetics?

Also in terms of ethics and logic.

For me, axiology is the highest good.

Axiology is the study of value.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiology

:up:

The systematic atrocity of Netanyahu's mass murdering with impunity goes on because (A) Israel receives too much US-EU finanvial & military support and (B) Israelis aren't bleeding enough (yet) for the citizenry en mass to rise up and stop Bibi's zionfascist regime from slaughtering any more Gazans et al.

The topic concerns "core beliefs" and not core delusions (e.g. pet conspiracy theories). "Brain worm" troubling you today, BC? :sweat:

:up:.

Is life nothing more than suffering? — Arnie

No. Life seems to be suffering plus *temporarily better or worse conditions / interpretations* ... I think one sustainably reduces one's own suffering – one flourishes¹ – by acquiring habits of preventing or reducing the suffering (i.e. dysfunctions, miseries, agonies, fears) of others. Btw, "happiness" is just like a full belly, more a memory than a lasting experience; many miserable persns make themselves "happy"² momentarily via addictions or criminal / sadistic acts which inevitably only compound their miseries.

https://lisamarieblair.medium.com/eudaimonia-or-when-human-beings-flourish-b9c5943bad22 [1]
(i.e. beneficial growth and deveopment)

https://bigthink.com/thinking/how-to-measure-happiness-hedonia-vs-eudaimonia/ [2]
(i.e. merely momentary comfort)

Trump's of course, but Trump is his own worst enemy. Trying to shame a porn-star is like trying to spice up a chili pickle. — unenlightened

:lol: :up:

9May24

Today in Trumpenfreude

It doesn’t say ‘President Trump,’ it says ‘orange turd,’ ...

I absolutely meant Mr. Trump. — Stormy Daniels while cross-examined by Trump's defense lawyer Susan Necheles

:clap: :rofl: "Orange Turd-1"

War crimes are always "justified" by the victors. Your poll is ahistorical, therefore incoherent.

:up:

Point taken. I'll remember not to cast anymore pearls before you, @BitconnectCarlos.

No need to bring up martyrdom here. — BitconnectCarlos

Clearly your "faith" has martyred your honesty and intelligence.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/902594

Nonsense. Martyrs usually possess an overpowering "sense of purpose" which allows (causes) them to annihilate themselves (and often others too) "in the name of" their tribal / sectarian faiths.

"Fear" of what? :smirk:

And how does "an important belief" deter ... suicide?

I don't think UBI is intended to prevent a revolt of the masses, it's to keep them minimally contented. It's a nuisance to manage their discontent and unhappiness, not a major threat. Groups that are any sort of real threat to the establishment are not bought off with a basic income. They are confronted and attacked by the police.

In any volatile situation, where revolt could grow out of riot, the police shoot to kill. lumpen proles (like George Floyd) have been treated pretty harshly by the police when they get out of line. It's not an aberration, it's policy. — BC

:100: :fire:

I believe that faith is a deterrent against suicide. — BitconnectCarlos

How does faith deter anything let alone suicide?

:up: :up:

Religious people are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are religious. — paraphrase of J.S. Mill (re: conservatives)

Amen. :smirk:

A link below to a thread dicussion ... for religious apologists like @BitconnectCarlos (of several decades of systematic collective punishment via mass murder, ethnic cleansing & apartheid)
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/851960

Go troll somewhere else. You're stupid AF, kid. :yawn:

I don't understand what you mean by "appreciation".

Humans don't fight over territory and food. They fight over imaginary stories in their minds. — Yuval Noah Harari, Israeli historian

(i.e.) Millennia of slaughtering babies & other innocents in the "Promised Land" ("Holy Land"). Countless human blood sacrifices demanded by the insatiablely jealous "God of Abraham". :eyes:

↪BitconnectCarlos pfff... Zionists don't take them seriously and obviously you don't either. Don't murder (Palestinian civilians). Don't steal (land). And unlimited administrative detention for Palestinians with no recourse to courts. That's 3 [Noahide] laws continously broken that you're perfectly fine with. — Benkei

:100: :fire:

↪Benkei

We must eliminate those who are intent on the murder of innocents. — BitconnectCarlos

Well okay, then why not also "eliminate" the ultra-Zionist leadership of Israel and murderous Israeli colonizer-settlers in the Occupied Territories?

Killing them is not murder.

Yeah, that's just what the Waffen SS and its Einsatsgruppen told themselves too ... gfy, BitCunt. :shade:

"Would you let animals like dogs die in order to create a vaccine that will save all of humanity?" — Arnie

Only if the process is completely painless for both dogs and humans, then yes of course. I think in order to do good, at minimum, the means must sustain and not be inconsistent with (sabotage) the ends. 'The good' in this example, however, might be instrumental (e.g. scientific, technological, juridical-political), but it's not moral (i.e. not eudaimonistic).

... all I saw was the Void looking back at me. — Vera Mont

Ancients called that "gnosis" or "nirvana" ... :victory: :cool:

Have accusations of deicide (Matthew 27:25) and the blood libel at the heart of Christian antisemitism for over a millennium (from pogroms to inquisitions to the shoah) been "an influence for good"? I cannot forget (e.g.) that Wehrmacht soldiers wore "Gott mit uns" belt buckles or that entrances of many concentration camps bear "Arbeit Macht Frei" (paraphrase of John 8:31-32).

addendum to
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/901070

The profoundly gullible have always deluded themselves with 'cosmic conspiracies' (e.g. Abraham's "Covenant", Christ's "Second Coming", ... Lovecraft's "Cthulhu Mythos") and yet the facts, as you say, are ... the simplest "divine plan" is – the only one that does not beg any questions – there is no divine plan. :fire:

Maybe ...

Do you agree with this, namely that the notion of good in inherent in the primacy of experience, and not something that can be learned by simply looking up a definition and analyzing it? — Shawn

Yes I agree insofar as. I've come to experientially understand (any) "good" as a reflective practice of negating – effectively preventing/reducing – disvalue.

And what's truly dispiriting is the awful tap dance believers will do to justify the unjustifiable. This must be what they mean when they say religion is nihilism. — Tom Storm

Yes, ritualized reality-denial. Which is why I define "faith" as believing in the unbelievable in order to defend the indefensible and excuse the inexcusable.

IMO, philosophy is 'reasoning to the most probative questions which we do not (yet) know how to answer' by fooloholics committed to daily recovery from foolery (and, in its manifestly harmful form, stupidity) more often than not by study of the history of philosophy, internal critique of concepts and/or dialectics.

(2021)
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/600633

(2023)
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/853311

I can't worship anyone who fails to meet my standard of morality. — Vera Mont

:fire: Yes yes – a minimally moral (i.e. empathic-benevolent) person, who knows a child is on the verge of being raped and also has the power to prevent it, would do so whereas "Almighty God" does not prevent child-rapes (e.g. priests) – wholly unworthy of worship. Such a deity is either a sadist or a fiction.

I would say that I (and most members here, probably you too) are morally superior to the Old Testament god (at least the character as written) who endorses slavery and commits mass murder ... — Tom Storm

:100: :up:

maybe the suffering is for a purpose — BitconnectCarlos

Theodicy is a top-down, otherworldly, inhuman/unnatural excuse – ex post facto rationalization – for 'divinely permitted' evil in this world. In other words, it's superstitious bullshit. :death:

Faith can find an excuse for any amount of cruelty; reason cannot. — Vera Mont

:clap: :flower: :hearts:

Democratic Socialism (e.g. the Nordic model).

My preferred version is economic democracy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_democracy

plus demarchy

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

NYC is all prepped for Criminal Defendant-1's imminent perp walk ...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/07/trump-rikers-jail-eric-adams :up: :up:

Oh but the irony is rich now that Stormy gets to fuck him ("long time") again and actually enjoy it this time! :kiss:

https://www.ft.com/content/9849af2b-7870-4827-818c-61d5895c12bf

By my thinking, UBI doesn’t solve the real problem, which is one of power: the decisions being in the hands of a self-perpetuating, small elite of private owners. — Mikie

:fire: :up:

So, what would you conclude about, quite possibly, in making aspirations towards socialism moot through Universal Basic Income? — Shawn

We marginal lefties (like myself) "aspire to socialism" in this postmodern-identitarian, neoliberal-corporatist, reactionary populist era?

And no: "UBI" doesn't even begin to address (neoliberalism's) structural imbalances and social injustices which "socialists" critique and oppose with alternative (speculative) socioeconomic arrangements

:up:

Given, to be sure. But isn't there some aspect of yourself not merely given, but chosen and self-legislated? — tim wood

Oh yes, but I think all those other "aspects of yourself" are derivatives from what you asked about in the OP: "purpose (in itself)" – and not just mere "instrumental" (i.e. utilitarian/aspirational) purposes.

You haven't answered what you want from Israel to end the oppression. — BitconnectCarlos

Immediate fucking ceasefire! :scream:

Yeah well, since that won't ever happen given the zionfascist status quo, I "propose" a just as far-fetched, three-part, Joint Security Plan:

(1) Israeli citizens need to remove (violently if necessary) the "Greater Israel Zionist" coalition government asap and jail/execute Netanyahu at el along with (tasking Shin Bet & Mossad to assassinate) all of the Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Israeli Zionist extremists & other terrorist combatants (except those murderous fucks who surrender to authorities for judicial processing and internment in UN-monitered, Joint Israel-Saudi, Egyptian, Jordanian administered penal camps in the Negev);

(2) complete cessation of US/EU economic & military aid to Israel immediately until a negotiated withdrawal of the country (removing all Israeli settler communities) back within the pre-1967 borders and the negotiated establishment of a Secular Palestinian State (SPS) recognized as an UN member and guaranteed international economic aid recipient (predominantly from the Saudis & Gulf States); and

(3) simultaneous US-Nato led eradication of Hezbollah in Lebanon & Syria in order to establiah a DMZ along Israel's northern border with significant economic & military support for Jordan that helps secure the West Bank, etc from Iranian-backed terrorist infiltration & incursions asap.

Just my two shekels: if (1) happens, then (2) is possible; if (2) happens, then (3) is absolutely necessary. :fire:

Peace begins with the oppressor State of Israel breaking the intractable cycle of oppression-caused-reciprocal-atrocities that undermines the Jewish state's future existence (which Ariel Sharon, Ehud Barak & Yitzhak Rabin had all acknowledged).