And "personal preference and culture" are grounded in – are expressions of – being natural creatures inseparable from non-human nature, no?Personal preference and culture seem to be the source of our ethics. — Tom Storm
Okay.I don't know if the science of descriptively moral behaviors (the Science of Morality) will help with ethics. — Mark S
You have not providedI fear that ethicists will not recognize its usefulness.
Of course not. Why assume morality requires any "foundation" at all?Does this science provide a foundation for morality? — Mark S
Ditto. :up:I regard this whole endeavor as a fruitless dead end. — Fooloso4
Unironically, however, you zionists are wanna-be Roman provincial occupiers entertaining yourselves with mass-crucifixions – "The only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian!" – your apparent raison d'etre since Auschwitz. :vomit:↪180 Proof Did you know that Jesus was a Palestinian? — Moses
:smirk:↪NOS4A2, the Clown isn't anti-state. Just pro-Clown-state. — jorndoe
If so, then how do you know that your "science of morality" can help anyone actually do ethics?I am not trying to do ethics. — Mark S
:cool: :up:For me, as a nihilist, I find the idea that there is no transcendent meaning rather joyous and exciting and one full of possibilities. I am unencumbered by dogma and doctrine and need not concern myself with following any preordained path. — Tom Storm
I don't know what that is.Do you have a conclusive argument justifying an imperative moral system? — Mark S
You have not proposed any moral prescriptions, so I'm not sure what you're asking. And I've previously stated my position with respect to your so-called "science of morality":If not, what moral guidance would you suggest as superior to what I propose here?
I didn't claim or imply that it did. You make it an empty phrase, Mark, by confessing you do not know what "our ultimate moral goals" are and yet propose that a "science of morality" can describe conditions whivh determine them. This kind of jugglery is of no use to moral philosophy.In no way does the science of morality (as the study of what is and has been descriptively moral) make our ultimate moral goals an empty phrase — Mark S
:roll: Tell that to the non-Ashkenazim of color (Mizrani Jews, Sephardic Jews, Ethopian Jews, Indian Jews) in Israel who are racially discriminated against and treated as second-class Israelis.Jews are one family. — BitconnectCarlos
How do you know this? (Of course you don't.) Sounds to me like the "happy slaves" trope of white supremacist propaganda. 'Uncle Toms' (e.g. Clarence Thomas) were/are not ever just "fine with their roles" ... But don't worry, Moses, I won't link you again to videos critical of Israeli oppression and atrocities – clearly, you're just fine with your role. :shade:Some blacks were fine with slavery & with their roles under the confederacy. — Moses
:fire:There is nothing threatening about opposing occupation and oppression. That is not antisemitism; you can agree with it or not. Even being anti-zionist is not antisemitic. There are hundreds of thousands, if not more, of ultra-orthodox Jews, including some who are in the Israeli government, who are anti-zionist but they are not antisemitic. They see themselves as the epitome of Jewishness and Jewish tradition.
So there is politics and there is prejudice, and if we don't make a distinction between the two, then what we are actually doing is enforcing a kind of silence over the policies that have been conducted by the Israeli government for a long time and that have ultimately culminated now in the utter destruction of Gaza. — Omer Bartov, Israeli-American Holocaust scholar
Your willful ignorance or disinformation is pathetic, BC, especially since many of the protestors are Jewish students. :shade:... There's been no strong response to these campuses protests which involve vandalism (and apparently now hostage taking) and protestors barring Jewish students from campusin scenes reminiscent of the 1930s in Europe. — BitconnectCarlos
It's never been a mystery to me – formerly a 7 year black resident of the "ruby red" deep south following 13 years in the once "bright red" gun-crazed, desert southwest US – that MAGA (MakeWhat I can't figure out is, what Trump voters think they're voting for. — Wayfarer
:smirk: :up:↪Echogem222 I didn't strawman you. You have this tendency to accuse others of making a strawman when they point out how your posts make zero sense. — Lionino
:up: :up:A paradox is a situation that results in something impossible or contradictory. This ain't one. — Lionino
What exactly are those "ultimate moral goals" and, since "moral science" is not prescriptive, what is the non-scientific basis for determining such "goals" and that they are "ours" (i.e. universal)?our ultimate moral goals. — Mark S
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gZM1WQKwpl0Hey you, Whitehouse
Ha, ha, charade you are
You house proud town mouse
Ha, ha, charade you are
You're trying to keep our feelings off the street
You're nearly a real treat
All tight lips and cold feet
And do you feel abused?
You got to stem the evil tide
And keep it all on the inside
Mary you're nearly a treat
Mary you're nearly a treat
But you're really a cry
I think ethics (re: moral agency) is concerned with the cultivation of human flourishing whereas politics (re: solidarity, legitimacy) is concerned with resolving conflicts in ways which to varying degrees arrange (or derange) the material-symbolic conditions for making the cultivation of human flourishing possible.What do you think about the relationship between ethics and politics? — Jack Cummins
"PC" is and always has been useless – "identity politics" shite – and, where it harms more than it helps, it's wrong. Don't be an Asshole or a Cunt! (billboards? PSAs?) – civility & (a little) empathy when in public almost always suffices. Fuck censors, prudes, fundies & other hypocritical, virtue signaling, "offended" twats! :strong: :mask:Also, what is 'right' or 'wrong' about political correctness, and how far should such correctness go in outlawing what may some may regard as being 'offensive'?
... on my short list for The Great American Novel.'Blood Meridian'
:fire:The quote matches the bleak, bereft setting of the book - circumstances where god seems to be missing. — Tom Storm
Certainly this – what you describe here – is mind-independent, no?... my brain generates a model of reality ... — Truth Seeker
From a 2022 thread Does nothingness exist? ...Imagine trying to define a hole. — Echogem222
We cannot** since only the dead are free from "all harm" or conflict; however, far more often than not, we can prevent greater harms from occuring and/or reduce harms that have been inflicted. Lack of perfection** is neither a rational nor a moral argument against doing good (i.e. negating worse) whenever possible. Nonviolent conflicts are usually resolved less harmfully than violent conflicts which almost always follow from either refusing to engage in and/or defecting from nonviolent conflict (e.g. dialectics, deliberations, dialogues). So again I ask, Seeker:How can we prevent all harm? — Truth Seeker
:chin:Absent this Sisyphusean agon (i.e. 'the unexamined life is not worth living'), how else can we – at least some small yet nontrivial fraction of the eight billion of us – thrive (flourish)? — 180 Proof