• A Case for Objective Epistemic Norms
    It seems like, and correct me if I am wrong, you ground rationality purely in ethics and not epistemology (and I do the opposite).Bob Ross
    On the contrary, I "ground" ethics and epistemology and ... "in rationality" (i.e. adaptive inferential-discourse). Maybe this divergence is why we're talking past each other.

    Moral facts are useless.
    To whom? For what? Like ecological or medical facts, the utility of "moral facts" is a function of context, Bob: that is, such facts oblige rational agents to posit hypothetical imperatives – normative practices – which are adaptive with respect to those facts as constraints.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    :clap: :rofl:
    Inmate No. P01135809 - RICO Suave!
  • What are you listening to right now?
    He hears the silence howling
    Catches angels as they fall
    And the all-time winner
    Has got him by the balls
    Oh, he picks up Gideons bible
    Open at page one ...

    "Locomotive Breath" (4:23)
    Aqualung, 1971
    writer Ian Anderson
    Jethro Tull


    "Cross-Eyed Mary" (4:06)
    Aqualung, 1971
    writer Ian Anderson
    Jethro Tull

    *


    "Got My Mojo Working" (2:50)
    A-side single, 1957
    writer P. Foster
    Muddy Waters
  • A Case for Objective Epistemic Norms
    To slightly paraphrase ...
    I think that, in light of this, “rationality”, in the sense of “acting in a manner that agrees with reality”, can be objectively grounded insofar as the hypothetical imperative (of reducing suffering (i.e. species defects)) is a presupposition of ethics (ecology, medicine) and thusly not within it; and so “rationality”, which in the sense defined (above) is deeply rooted in ethical (ecological, medicinal) principles, is grounded in the objective ethical (ecological, medicinal) norms.
    I assume, @Bob Ross, you will take issue with this paraphrase and so I look forward to you making explicit its problems or confusions.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    Yeah, well, as the link in my previous post indicates, I'd advocated Putin's Bitch's disqualification last June or thereabouts. I'm encouraged that the discussion in legal and political circles is gaining momentum. I think when Arizona, Wisconsin and/or Michigan also bring separate RICO / conspiracy indictments similiar to Georgia's indictment, the floodgates will burst open with lawsuits to bar Seditionist-Traitor-Rapist1 from various state ballots for President (or any federal office), the effect of which killing his "candidacy" in it's gaudy crib.

    update:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/
  • TPF Quote Cabinet
    I'm a failed poet. Maybe every novelist wants to write poetry first, finds he can't and then tries the short story which is the most demanding form after poetry. And failing at that, only then does he take up novel writing. — William Faulkner

    Only the questions are eternal. — Elie Wiesel
  • What can I know with 100% certainty?
    I am 100% certain that I am conscious but it is not possible for me to know with 100% certainty that my body, other humans, non-human organisms, the Earth and the rest of the Universe actually exist.Truth Seeker
    Except tautologically, how are you "100% certain" of anything at all?
  • What are you listening to right now?

    "True radical freedom is not to make a choice ... It's all of a sudden to experience 'this is my fate' ... True choice is unconscious, you experience it as your fate but you are still fully responsible for it."
  • Atheist Cosmology
    What do you think about the evidential value of these conjectural examples?ucarr
    IMO, your un/mis-informed "4 precepts" are incoherent or false (as I've pointed out), so their "evidential values" are negative (à la e.g. candy cotton mountains, five-sided triangles, disembodied minds, etc). Again, go inform yourself, ucarr, by reading the rigorous (popular) studies on natural selection, etc by Mayr, Dawkins, Gould, Wilson et al.
  • Atheist Cosmology
    Nonsense. :roll:

    1) Intelligence is motion organized;ucarr
    Clouds, waterfalls & digestion, for examples, are not "intelligent".

    2) Motion organized within sentients is adaptation;
    Primate digestion does not adapt and yet viruses do adapt.

    3) Adaptation is sentient control of environment;
    Again, viruses adapt.

    4) Sentient controlled environment selects for mutations that improve adaptation to environment
    This might be breeding but it is not natural selection. Read Ernst Mayr. Read Richard Dawkins. Read Stephen J. Gould. Read E.O. Wilson. Read Daniel Dennett. :shade: wtf
  • Atheist Cosmology
    Evidentially, metabolic self-replication does not entail metacognition, or life –/–> intelligent life (i.e. "intention & purpose").
  • Is Philosophy still Relevant?
    It really doesn't matter if we call it 'philosophy' or 'fundamental ontology' [or] 'big picture synthesizing talk.'plaque flag
    :up:
  • Socialism vs capitalism
    Yes, and that "good in (our) world" is – has always been, IMO – the chrysalis from which butterfly-AGIs might emerge ... before we scarcity-catepillars drive ourselves to extinction. I agree with Samwise that (only) that chrysalis is "worth fighting for". :fire:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    :cool: 4 out of 4 in 2023 ...

    The timeline of MAGA Loser #1's legal reckoning for his 2016-2023 crime spree (excluding potentially ruinous civil lawsuits):

    1. NYC felony indictment
    31Mar23 :up:
    "34 counts of Business Documents Fraud Crealing and/or Covering-up Felonies", etc

    https://apnews.com/article/trump-indictment-full-document-640043319549?utm_source=homepage&utm_medium=RelatedStories&utm_campaign=position_02

    2. Miami, Federal indictment
    8Jun23 :up:
    re: 37 counts "Mishandling Documents, Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice, Violating Espionage Act, Making False Statements to Federal Authorities, Witness Tampering" etc

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/08/donald-trump-charged-retention-classified-documents

    9Jun23 Federal indictment unsealed ...
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/09/trump-indictment-unsealed-pdf-text-criminal-charges

    2.1 Miami, Federal Superceding Indictment (1)
    27Jul23 :up:
    +3 felony charges (+1 Espionage (32), +2 Obstruction), etc
    + new exhibit – "Iran war plan" documents (audio, July 2021)

    3. Washington, DC, Federal indictment
    1Aug23 :up:
    re: 4 counts
    • Conspiracy to Defraud the U.S.;
    • Conspiracy to Obstruct an Official Proceeding;
    • Obstruction of and attempt to Obstruct an Official Proceeding;
    • Conspiracy to Deprive Voting Rights


    1Aug23 Federal Indictment unsealed ...
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/01/trump-indictment-full-text-2020-election-jan-6
    — 180 Proof
    4. Fulton County, GA, felony indictment
    14Aug23 :up:
    re: 41 counts, 19 defendants (+ 30 unindicted co-conspirators*)

    *cooperating witnesses for the state :wink:

    In sum: RICO Defendent-1 is charged with Violation of Georgia RICO Act + 12 other felonies...

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/politics/read-trump-indictment-georgia-election/index.html

    LOCK HIM UP! :victory: :rofl:
  • Socialism vs capitalism
    I would ask simple questions:
    1. Why does one human wish to be more powerful and have more wealth than any other?
    universeness
    Probably because h. sapiens are about a chromosome and a half away from p. troglodytes (chimpanzees).

    Are such drives/motivations, 100% connected to our 'survival of the fittest, jungle rules, beginnings?'
    The history of h. sapiens' dominance hierarchies (i.e. civilizations, sovereigns / states, cults-communes) certainly suggests such a sociobiological "connection".

    If so, then what does the notion of 'civilisation,' really mean to humans?
    In practice – dynastic-oligarchical dominance hierarchy.

    2. Do you think 8 billion humans, fully co-operating, could achieve more than 8 billion humans competing under the control of an elite global few?
    No. Not under conditions (status quo) of political-economic scarcity.

    3. Can the human species find common cause, when we consider the scale of the universe and the resources available within it?
    We haven't yet in over half a century. It's certainly not in the interest of shareholders who profit from – dominate by – exploiting natural and/or man-made / strategic scarcities.

    4. Consider unfettered capitalism in permanent action, forever unchallenged, what would you predict,
    would be the main result of such a permanent global system, for our species?
    Eventually 'survival of the elitest' (millions, not billions) in scattered networks (sprawls) of AI-automated enclaves. Think: Ayn Randian dystopias à la Judge Dredd or Blade Runner (without Replicants).

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/787957

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/801029
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    :up:
    @Hanover @Maw

    Any guesses how much bail the judge will set for Seditionist-Traitor-Rapist1 in Fulton County, Georgia?
  • Thing-in-itself, Referent, Kant...Schopenhauer
    I've never read any of Schopenhauer's works, but [ ... ]Gnomon
    :smirk:
  • Southern pride?
    I was born and raised in NYC in 1960s-1970s. My father's family was from the Old South. I lived in Atlanta from 1996-2002 and again from 2016-2022, also spending long visits in the surrounding states and Virginia ("up south") as well. In the main, I suspect "Southern Pride" mostly comes from a regional legacy of feeling "undefeated" despite losing a catastrophic, futile (according even to Shelby Foote) secessionist-insurrectionist "civil war". The South has survived Lee's surrender at Appomattox in 1865; thus goes the mantra "The South will rise again" – fallen but not broken. No doubt an over-inflated sense of pride attempts to compensate for a very deep sense (conscious or not) of either shame or guilt for centuries of chattal slavery, apartheid-segregation and other forms of white-on-black terrorism. IMHO as a one-time "carpetbagger", for historical as well as many cultural reasons, I locate the American "heartland" (almost entirely) below the Mason-Dixon line and east of the muddy Mississippi River.
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    My guess is the "J6 trial" will be set for March '24 – the "Falsified Business Records trial" in Manhattan will be moved from March to ??? – and the defense will just have to suck it up. :sweat:
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    From a year-old post ...
    Btw, DJT will be stricken from some key state ballots due to provisions in US 14th Amendment, Sec. 3 because of the findings of J6 Committee and subsequent state & federal indictments, so the fat old orange fascist fuck won't be able to run again in '24 (though he'll still be a player / spoiler of some sort.)180 Proof
    News flash @NOS4A2 Anti-"Deep State" Federalist Society legal scholars argue that Seditionist-Traitor-Rapist1 is CONSTITUTIONALLY DISQUALIFIED from ever being POTUS again:

    https://www.law.uchicago.edu/news/william-baude-and-colleague-write-about-section-3-disqualification-trump-holding-office



    Thoughts?

    @Ciceronianus @Hanover @Maw
  • If there is a god, is he more evil than not?
    And on and on and hosanna. That is to say apparently gaslighting seems to be the answer.schopenhauer1
    :up:
  • If there is a god, is he more evil than not?

    From an old thread "The Problem of Evil"...
    The only deity consistent with a world (it purportedly created and sustains) ravaged by natural afflictions (e.g. living creatures inexorably devour living creatures; congenital birth defects; etc), man-made catastrophes and self-inflicted interpersonal miseries is either a Sadist or a fiction – neither of which are worthy of worship.180 Proof
  • Rationalism's Flat Ontology
    rationality itself is godplaque flag
    :fire:
  • What are you listening to right now?
    Robbie Robertson - lyrics & guitar, d. 2023
  • Atheist Cosmology
    In this conversation, I want to examine whether or not positing evolution in place of a creator amounts, in the end, to the same thing as ...ucarr
    Evolution explains the development of life and not its origin like (so called) "creationism", so it's no more a substitute for an inexplicable (alleged)"creator" than astronomy is "posited in place of" astrology or modern medicine is "posited in place of" faith-healing. Evidence-based stories and evidence-free (faith-based) stories have incommensurable discursive functions and are not interchangeable, or substituteable one for the other.

    ... positing a creator in place of evolution.
    "A creator" is either "posited in place of" We Don't Know Yet – as a creator-of-the-gaps placeholder – or bullshitted denialism of modern evolutionary biology.
  • Dramaturgical Ontology (The Necessity of Existentialism)
    So there's an existential decision to live in a beautifully impersonal way, which I understand as maximally social.plaque flag
    ... or minimally egoic (e.g. Laozi's wu wei, Epicurus' aponia, Pyrrho's epochē, Spinoza's scientia intuitiva, Nietzsche's amor fati, Zapffe-Camus' absurd, Rosset's cruelty ...)

    I want to be us and not just me.
    How about you – second person plural – such as Buber's Ich-Du (or even Dao)?

    I want to strive heroically against my own petty finitude, toward the relative infinity of Feuerbach's species-essence.
    à la Meillassoux / Brassier! :fire:
  • Dramaturgical Ontology (The Necessity of Existentialism)
    Reality apart from human personality is a useful fiction.plaque flag
    This immanentist agrees. :up:
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    What is this reality ?plaque flag
    Whatever reality is, reality necessarily excludes – negates – unreality (i.e. ontological impossibles (e.g. un-condittionals, un-changeables, reified ideas ('ideals'), etc)).
  • Dramaturgical Ontology (The Necessity of Existentialism)
    Zapffe himself pointed out that his produced works were the product of sublimation.
    — Wiki

    Becker and others make the same point. Life has a horrible aspect, and we meet it with narratives and symbols that mitigate that horror. The first heroic task as a child is ceasing to shit one's pants. A 'spiritual' being is a cultural or sublimated being
    plaque flag
    :up: :up:

    What does the game of philosophy always presuppose ?plaque flag
    Flesh (facticity).

    The living breathing ontologist has a certain kind of personality. To what degree is philosophy a personal quest for honesty that leads toward a self-consciously critical and fallible conversation ?plaque flag
    I suppose to the degree one believes the path is not the destination.

    Does the true scientist (I include, controversially, a person like Husserl) take science personally ? How else could it be taken?
    IIRC, Husserl begins as a mathematician ... I imagine Spinoza, like Epicurus, would "take" thinking – reflective inquiry/practice – impersonally.

    I don't think it's an accident that we understand one another and ourselves as total characters, nor do I think literature is far from ontology.
    Maps are not "far from" models yet neither are equivalent to the territory as (sub)personal – existential – biases would have us believe (re: folk psychology). Btw, I'm with Beckett (even Cioran): I don't think we ever "understand" one another any more than we chew swallow digest & shit one another's shits. :smirk:

    I'm saying for my own self, not quoting scripture, that the ego is and must be flesh. No doubt a mystic can claim otherwiseplaque flag
    :point: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/827494
  • Hidden Dualism
    Maybe; but so what? It's not an inherent defect or entailment of "materialist conceptions".
  • The Worldly Foolishness of Philosophy
    What can the philosopher offer ?plaque flag
    Exemplary daily exorcisms of foolery (re: meta-ignorance (i.e. agnotologies (e.g. pseudo-discourses, sophistries)); expectations misaligned with reality (i.e. self-immiseration, alienation, dukkha); maladaptive habits of mind (e.g. mis/ab-uses of communication, judgment, knowledge), etc) aka "spiritual exercises".
  • Hidden Dualism
    Property dualism (i.e. dual-aspect monism), for instance, is not "hidden".
  • Emergence
    We probably have passed the point of no return in some ways ...universeness
    Apologies for continuing to flog this equine's carcass:
    https://www.dw.com/en/sea-surface-temperature-hotter-than-ever-before/a-66444694
  • What Are You Watching Right Now?
    ... towards 'apophatic enstasis' :fire:

    @javi2541997
    @Quixodian