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  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    Is it reductionist metaphysics? — T Clark
    Instrumentalist? Neo-pragmatist? ...
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    metaphysical claims have no truth value. — T Clark
    :100:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    For me, metaphysics should be applied piecemeal. It's a tool to help with thinking and understanding - a tool box. When you're doing reductionist science, maybe pull out the materialism and realism. When it's math, pull out the idealism. When you're trying to see how it all fits together, you might need holism or even mysticism. — T Clark
    Interesting (I guess 'analytical') approach. :chin:

    The desire to reject metaphysics is itself what must manifest metaphysics as the “other” which has been placed at the greatest possible distance. — apokrisis
    No doubt true of cataphatic "anti-metaphysics".
  • Foundational Questions of Physics & Metaphysics
    In Existential Physics, Sabine Hossenfelder was asked : "are you just a bag of atoms?". She replied : "The relevant property of humans is not our constituents. It's the way the constituents are arranged ; it's the information you need to build a human, the information that tells you what it can do." — Gnomon
    Life and mind are dissipative structures organised by semiosis. We are structures of meaning or negentropy. — apokrisis
    :100: :up:

    ↪Agent Smith
    Spooky, ain't it? – when Gnomon, apokrisis & 180 Proof agree (more or less). :smirk:
  • All arguments in favour of Vegetarianism and contra
    ↪DingoJones
    You've misread what I've written.
  • All arguments in favour of Vegetarianism and contra
    ↪DingoJones
    Other than existential survival, to have "higher priorities" other than ethics (i.e. cultivating optimal agency/well-being via conduct and relationships) seems to me a performative contradition.
  • Is it possible to be morally wrong even if one is convinced to do the right thing?
    ↪javi2541997
    :up:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    Ontology and epistemology are not like ought and is... — Banno
    ... but more like (the study of) constants and functions, respectively.
  • All arguments in favour of Vegetarianism and contra
    ↪DingoJones
    (I guess) "illuminating!" or "insightful!"
  • What is the simplest example of entropy?
    ↪Nils Loc
    Process #1.
  • Is it possible to be morally wrong even if one is convinced to do the right thing?
    Our task could be understanding but not empathy. — javi2541997
    For sociopaths, no doubt.
  • Is there an objective/subjective spectrum?
    absolute knowledge — TiredThinker
    Define, please.
  • All arguments in favour of Vegetarianism and contra
    I do have a pet, and I would eat it to survive. I also have kids so they would get the dog burgers first, followed by dad burgers if it meant them surviving. Survival trumps morality for most people, for most things. — DingoJones
    :fire:

    I objected to the industrial slaughterhouses and the brutal system that eating meat en masse has generated. Not as concerned about a small community that raises animals and kills them as they need them — Tom Storm
    :up:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ... naive realism that dissolves into naive idealism without even being aware of it is not a sorted-out epistemology. It is 1950s plain speaking bullshit. — apokrisis
    :clap: :smirk:

    Better, the mooted distinction between epistemology and ontology is here misplaced. Always, already interpreted. — Banno
    What? :chin:
  • Foundational Questions of Physics & Metaphysics
    ↪Agent Smith
    We are "bags of chemistry" and much more due to the complexity of that chemistry. Enlightenment and post-Enlightenment decenterings
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/569450
    have scientifically (and philosophically) made explicit the degrees to which h. sapiens are embodied by and imbedded in the natural world.
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ↪T Clark
    :up:
  • Foundational Questions of Physics & Metaphysics
    ↪Agent Smith
    It's a science literacy bias (as well as a science numeracy bias), mi amigo. Without that, TPF would be nothing more than Twitter or Reddit. :mask: :point:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/743651
  • How Objective Morality Disproves An All-Good God
    ↪Agent Smith
    Wut :monkey:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ↪frank
    :ok:

    ↪Tom Storm
    Hey, I'm not an idealist/solipsist either so ... :sweat:
  • Is there an objective/subjective spectrum?
    Isn't the difference between objective and subjective just how well we can know anything absolutely? — TiredThinker
    No, because we cannot "know anything absolutely". What does "know ... absolutely" even mean? We're not absolute beings with the absolute perspective so it makes no sense to say "how well we can know anything absolutely". Unless, I suppose, by "know" you mean something other than cognition. :chin:

    Anyway, my rule of thumb as I discern things, "the difference" is this: dispositions are subjective and propositions are objective; evidence-free, emotion-dependent beliefs are subjective and knowledge (i.e. beliefs corroborated by public evidence) is objective; subject-variable interpretations are subjective and subject-invariant facts are objective ... and so on. The latter, no doubt, is always 'value-laden' (i.e. contextualized) by the former.
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ↪frank
    :roll:

    ↪Tom Storm
    Isn't that still solipsism? As I point out, whether god or my ego, only that "self" is real to itself.
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    Can you describe how idealism leads to solipsism? — Tom Storm
    Berkeley says "to be is to be perceived" and this seems to presuppose "self-perceived being" that cannot perceive other selves only ("ideas of") bodies, etc (i.e. as @Banno has said, IIRC, 'idealism implies that only what can be known (directly) is real and therefore solipsism – only oneself is real – because one only knows oneself as / to be a self'). Of course, subjective idealism is only one flavor ...

    I think, in the Western tradition, idealism-solipsism goes back to, or starts with, Neoplatonism wherein only the One is real and all others are merely "emenations" (ideas) of One (nous) – in the Eastern tradition, Brahman-maya or Eternal Dao-ten thousand things or etc – the"ipse" is god ("the monad"), not an ego. Anyway, I gave 'solipsism presupposes idealism' a go here
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/724292

    I've not immersed myself in this world but would you know off hand just who are the candidates supposedly behind these notions of simulation? Is it generally some kind of organic programmer, or are we part of an endless recursion of IT simulations? — Tom Storm
    I haven't a clue but I've recently speculated about that on a thread discussing 2001: A Spece Odyssey.
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/741138

    I've said it before. I'll say it again. Questions about our reality are not science. — T Clark
    :fire:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    the notion of universal mind — Tom Storm
    Brains-in-vat / simulation hypothesis.
  • Antinatalism Arguments
    It's not technology which sustains life in the biological sense but air, food and water. Technology may sustain our lifestyles, but that is something else. — Janus
    :up:
  • Is it possible to be morally wrong even if one is convinced to do the right thing?
    Are there any absolute, indisputable standards of morality, or is morality relative to the place and time? — alan1000
    Suffering.

    Is it possible to be morally wrong even if one is convinced to do the right thing? — Matias
    Yes. One can be mistaken.

    Another related question could be: is it possible to be morally wrong retroactively?
    Yes. There's no such thing as moral statute of limitation.

    ... we are doing something that we think is normal and morally acceptable, but without knowing or suspecting that it is (objectively!) morally wrong and we are in fact morally depraved beings?
    I think it only means that we are morally fallible.
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ↪frank
    Reread my last post in which I quoted your hypocrisy.
  • Antinatalism Arguments
    However, although the misuse of technology may be one contributor to alienation within society, it is not the only cause, as alienation existed in societies pre-modern technology. — RussellA
    :up: Thus, the incoherent triviality of the OP.
  • How Objective Morality Disproves An All-Good God
    The cost of freedom is evil. — Agent Smith
    Freedom is beyond good and evil.
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    And science clearly is not unified. We have broken it down into a hierarchical list of different sciences depending on scale and principle of organization. There have been long discussions of that hierarchy here on the forum. I think the important message is that reductionism works - each higher level behaves consistently with the level below - but constructivism doesn't - you can't generally predict behavior at a higher level from principles of the lower level. Example - you can't predict the behavior of biology from chemistry. — T Clark
    :100: :fire:

    Here, look at me being helpful to you: — frank
    Now look who's talking down ... Projection is a hell of a drug. :roll:
  • How Objective Morality Disproves An All-Good God
    There are 613 commandments in the Hebrew Bible. — Tom Storm
    :up:

    To suffer is to cry-out for help to – solicit silently or not for – other sufferers to help stop or reduce the suffering. The moral fact. Like hunger: either feed a hungry child or ignore her. So what does a g/G have to do with it? :roll:

    Besides, since g/G is "mysterious" (i.e. inexplicable), to answer "Why do A and not do B?" with "because the Inexplicable (g/G) says so or commands it" only begs the question. When a priest, preacher, imam, rabbi, lay believer or politician says this, in effect, what they are saying is "This is such and such because I say so." :eyes:
  • What are you listening to right now?
    OTD 60 years ago, the Ringo-version of this song was released in the UK ...


    "Love Me Do" (2:22)
    A-side single, 5 October 1962
    writers Lennon-McCartney, 1958
    The Beatles

    ... and the rest is history. :victory: :cool:
  • Antinatalism Arguments
    With despair, true optimism begins: the optimism of the man who expects nothing, who knows he has no rights and nothing coming to him, who rejoices in counting on himself alone and in acting alone for the good of all. — Jean-Paul Sartre
    There are no whinging "pessimists" in foxholes.

    :death: :flower:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    The failure to recognize the difference between everyday or scientific reality and metaphysics is the biggest failure of most posters on the forum. — T Clark
    :100: :up:
  • Antinatalism Arguments
    ↪schopenhauer1 :roll: We do not even "understand" how we move our fingers and toes let alone what our brains are doing moment to moment or even why pessimists bother whinging on and on about "pessimism" ... Big whup. — 180 Proof
    Asshole and dickish comments are the norm if you disagree. Can't just argue the arguments here. Nope. — schopenhauer1
    And when you lack a non-trivial counterargument, more useless whinging. :yawn:
  • Antinatalist Trolleys: An Argument for Antinatalism
    ↪Agent Smith
    Again, you've lost me.
  • Antinatalist Trolleys: An Argument for Antinatalism
    ↪Agent Smith
    I think "the best = the least worst". How could it not? :yawn:
  • Antinatalism Arguments
    ↪schopenhauer1
    :sweat:
  • Antinatalism Arguments
    ↪schopenhauer1
    :roll: We do not even "understand" how we move our fingers and toes let alone what our brains are doing moment to moment or even why pessimists bother whinging on and on about "pessimism" ... Big whup. :yawn:

    ↪RussellA
    :up:

    ↪T Clark
    :clap:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ↪god must be atheist
    Whoops. :smirk:
  • Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    ↪Darkneos

    Does quantum physics say nothing is real?
    No.

    Drastically different physical principles apply to sandwiches and surfboards than apply to subatomic particles. The world works differently at different scales. Why would we think that wouldn't be true. Different metaphysical regimes apply at different scales. That's the thing about metaphysics - there's not just one appropriate view of reality. The philosophical lesson of QM is that what works at human scale doesn't work at all at nano-scale. — T Clark
    :clap: :party:
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