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  • A way to put existential ethics
    ↪Merkwurdichliebe
    Incorrigibles always call what they can't grasp "bullshit".
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    ↪Agent Smith
    "Objectivity" is not an intentional agent, so "does not tolerate dissent" is an incoherent assumption on your part.
  • The Christian Trilemma
    Lewis's trilemma

    Jesus was either Liar, Lunatic or Lord!
    — Agent Smith
    False trichotomy. Jesus was also either misquoted or a fictional character. :halo:
  • A way to put existential ethics
    ↪Merkwurdichliebe
    Apparently, you don't get it.
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    ↪Agent Smith
    For objectivity, 'whether or not there is consensus' is N/A.
  • A way to put existential ethics
    ↪Merkwurdichliebe
    This does not follow

    What about when a person does the right thing because he thinks it serves his inte[re]sts? — Merkwurdichliebe
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/721614
  • A way to put existential ethics
    What kind of reasoning is it when an individual does something that serves his own ends because [non sequitur]. — Merkwurdichliebe
    Instrumental reasoning.
  • A way to put existential ethics
    And when it comes to moral reasons, they are a subset of normative reasons. A reason to do something because it serves one's own ends - so a reason generated by one's own interests rather than those of another - is called an 'instrumental' reason, not a moral reason. They are both from Reason. — Bartricks
    :100:
  • Agnosticism, sensu amplo
    ↪Gnomon :lol: — Agent Smith
    Self-delusion is a helluva drug. :smirk:
  • Gnosticism is a legitimate form of spirituality
    The gate to the Oracle at Delphi bore this inscription : "gnothi seauton" (know thyself). That kind of "direct" (introspective) gnosis is indeed necessary for wisdom. — Gnomon
    :up: In other words, as a disciple of Sunzi once said: "A man's got to know his limitations."

    (The gnosis of) Don't bullshit thyself. :fire:

    But, pretending to know something via indirect channels -- hidden from Reason & human eyes -- may be wise like a wiley serpent. The ancient Gnostics got a bad reputation for claiming to reveal occult esoteric spiritual truths that are necessary for salvation. And that tactic worked well on gullible people, who put their trust in con-men. But philosophical wisdom must be amenable to Reason, and not just taken on Faith.
    :100:

    ↪Bret Bernhoft
    I'm a (modern) Gnostic in the following sense:
    I don't want to believe. I want to know. — Carl Sagan
    I do not want to found anything on the incomprehensible. I want to know whether I can live with what I know and with that alone. — Albert Camus
    Deus, sive natura naturans. — Benedict Spinoza
    What I know, what is certain, what I cannot deny, what I cannot reject — this is what counts. I can negate everything of that part of me that lives on vague nostalgias, except this desire for unity, this longing to solve, this need for clarity and cohesion. I can refute everything in this world surrounding me that offends or enraptures me, except this chaos, this sovereign chance and this divine equivalence which springs from anarchy. I don’t know whether this world has a meaning that transcends it. But I know that I do not know that meaning and that it is impossible for me just now to know it. What can a meaning outside my condition mean to me? I can understand only in human terms. What I touch, what resists me — that is what I understand. And these two certainties — my appetite for the absolute and for unity and the impossibility of reducing this world to a rational and reasonable principle — I also know that I cannot reconcile them. What other truth can I admit without lying, without bringing in a hope I lack and which means nothing within the limits of my condition? — Albert Camus
    That which is [harmful] to you, do not do to anyone. — Hillel the Elder
  • Evolution, creationism, etc?
    ↪TiredThinker
    What "mutual goal"? IMO, they're not comparable in any non-trivial way.
  • Evolution, creationism, etc?
    ↪TiredThinker
    Okay. But since creationism (religious fiction) does not explain anything, it's in no way related / comparable to evolution (natural science).
  • Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/21/january-6-hearing-donald-trump-us-capitol-attack :fire:
    On January 6th Donald Trump was not the leader of the country, he was the leader of the coup. — Glenn Kirschner, fmr Federal Prosecutor, July 22, 2022
    :mask:
  • The Ultimate Question of Metaphysics
    My systems science approach is predicated on global constraints that produce local stability. [ ... ] So fixed points are important as the emergently stable invariances of a physical system. The symmetries that anchor the structure of the self-reconstituting whole.

    This is the guts of physical theory.
    — apokrisis
    :fire: :up:
  • Agnosticism, sensu amplo
    ↪Agent Smith
    :smirk: :up:

    The problem with a dogmatic mindset like Gnomon's is that questions & counter-examples are perceived as biased / malicious attacks and so, as a cursory search of 'our post history' makes clear, he responds with defensive evasions. What's Gnomon so scared of? It seems to me the only reason to post one's speculative thesis on a public discussion forum is to subject it to questioning and criticism rather than attempting to protect it by bloviating tedious sophistry as Gnomon reflexively does. No "ad hominems" on my part, Smith, just apt observations corroborated by 'our post history'.

    A. challenge
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/719664

    B. typical evasion
    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/720338

    ... "your honor, the prosecution witness' testimony contradicts the defense witness' testimony. Therefore, [ ... ] I rest my case" — Gnomon
    No no, sir, your "testimony" contradicts (i.e. defeats) itself – that is my testimony. :sweat:
  • Agnosticism, sensu amplo
    ↪Gnomon
    :rofl:
  • Trouble with Impositions
    ↪Benkei
    :up:
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    ↪Agent Smith
    "Something" is a subset of "everything", so your formulation of the "conundrum" makes no sense. Why is there anything at all? There is no why avoids begging that question. :fire:
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    ↪Agent Smith
    I don't think so. Nature's "filter" sifts the adapted from the maladapted and Reason's "filter" sifts the intelligible from the unintelligible, in/defeasible truths from fictions, signals from noise ... possible versions of actuality from 'mere possibilities' from impossibilities, etc.
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    M = set of mental objects and P = set of physical objects. — Agent Smith
    I agree "M > P" which, to me, implies that M – P = nothing but extrinsic, mere possibilities, which necessarily cannot be actualized – necessarily are not actual – à la Spinoza's first kind of knowledge.
  • Trouble with Impositions
    Procreating causes conditions for existing, not suffering (just as planting a sapling causes a tree to grow but does not cause the harm when that tree falls on someone). Insofar as an existing person maladaptively interprets / relates to her environment, she suffers.
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    ↪Agent Smith
    Suppose every possibility is only instrinsic to – only constitutive of – actuality (like e.g. the set of possible matches in chess; or set of possible maps of a/the territory; or set of possible system-states in phase/design-space), including "mental states", rather than extrinsic, mere 'alternatives to the actual'... :brow:

    https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/514081
  • If you were the only person left ....
    ↪Benj96
    Your scenario reminds me of the novel
    Wittgenstein's Mistress. Personally, I'd probably wind up like the character in that old Twilight Zone episode obsessively reading books (and, if possible, listening to music) for as long as I can.

    Why would assume I am the only one to survive? If I survived I am quite sure others have as well. — Athena
    :up:
  • Agnosticism, sensu amplo
    ↪Agent Smith
    Clearly, there's no point in questioning Gnomon's dogmas further, so I rest my case. :smirk:
  • Evolution, creationism, etc?
    I realize creationism is baseless, but its purpose is common somehow with evolution. — TiredThinker
    The object of both is life; however, the latter explains life's variations (re: descent via natural selection) whereas the former does not explain anything ("god did it").
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    ↪litewave
    You are mistaking the map (collection of) for the territory (an apple's atoms).
  • Agnosticism, sensu amplo
    ↪Agent Smith
    As you can see from Gnomon's reply, he cannot directly address criticisms of his pet dogma, I think, because, though well-documented, it's vacuous. :sweat:
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    ↪litewave
    Again: "no" – apples exist.
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    The question of objectivity is a difficult one because human life is comprised of different subjectivities. — Jack Cummins
    Objectivity does not negate or even threaten / undermine "subjectivies"; it simply refers to an epistemic status, so to speak, what I refer to as subject(ivity)-invariant (as well as pov / language / gauge —invariant), or a truth-value which does not vary with "different subjectivies" – truth-values which are the same for all "subjectivities". As I pointed out to Agent Smith
    e.g. A = A;
    you were not born before your parents;
    there are more real numbers than integers; etc...
    — 180 Proof
    are truths which are the same for every "subjectivity" (though, almost certainly, they mean different things to different subjects). I don't see what makes "the question of objectivity ... difficult."
  • The Ultimate Question of Metaphysics
    The map / territory distinction is not a fallacy — Tobias
    True. I should have written 'the map = territory fallacy" by which I mean idealists tendency for confusing – conflating – epistemology (i.e. what I/we know) & ontology (i.e. what there is), that is, there is not anything more than what I/we can 'experience'.

    it is just that there are maps all the way down. There is no territory.
    Always the Hegelian. That's the fallacy / incoherence of idealism I mean.
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    Sets are collections. An apple is a collection of atoms. So apples "subsist"? — litewave
    No. The concept "collection" subsists.
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    ↪litewave
    Non sequitur, IMO. "Sets" subsist, they do not "exist" (as per the OP).
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    ↪Agent Smith
    Disagreement is always possible, whether rational or irrational, with or without grounds. Just ask flat-earthers and godists.
  • The Ultimate Question of Metaphysics
    ↪jgill https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1420-9101.2009.01775.x — apokrisis
    :gasp:
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    All that said, since these questions are most likely unanswerable, it would seem to have no bearing on how we choose to live our lives and what values we choose to enact. — Janus
    :fire:
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    ↪Agent Smith
    Nope. Blame it on my twelve years of working-class, Roman Catholic education. By the time I'd opted out of mandatory religion classes for my first philosophy class during 12th grade, my instinct was that the alternative to dogmatism was definitely not relativism. :fire:
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    So my guess is that what you do matters, not what you believe — Tom Storm
    :up: More precisely: 'how you think and do what you think and do matters' ...
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    ↪Agent Smith
    Of course philosophy is "about truths", but that doesn't mean "truth is the goal" – truths are "attainable" means to philosophy's end. I'm (mostly) a(n anti-idealist, anti-essentialist, anti-supernaturalist) fallibilist freethinker for whom "relativism", like nihilism and deconstructionism, is self-refuting sophistry. :wink:
  • On whether what exists is determinate
    I guess what I’m asking is, do you think the difference between a philosophy that makes a place for the significance of life, and one that doesn’t, is significant? — Wayfarer
    Interesting. I can't think of a philosophy in which life is not significant in some way :chin:

    I'm interested in the possibility of a cosmic philosophy.
    How about ...
    • M-string theory?
    • Cosmicism?
    • Meillassoux's hyper-chaos?
    • Spinoza's (acosmist) natura naturans?
    • Democritean / Lucretian atomism?
    • Daojia
    • The Many-Worlds Interpretation of QM
    etc
  • What Are the Philosophical Implications of the Concept of "Uncertainty' in Life?
    ↪Agent Smith
    Truth was never the goal of philosophy. 'Love of wisdom', not love of truth, Smith. Stop kicking up sand and then complaining you can't see. :mask: Btw, there's no controversy about "finding truth" e.g. A = A; you were not born before your parents; there are more real numbers than integers; etc ...
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