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Arguments for and against the identification of Jesus with GodAfaik, philosophy of religion examines concepts of religion (re: worship) in contrast to theology which speculates on the nature of god (re: transcendence); where these inquiries possibly converge or overlap is on implications for human existence (e.g. values).
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Arguments for and against the identification of Jesus with God
Nope. I didn't make it past your "Is Jesus God?"So, I take it thatyou acceptthe non-Christian argument, andyou rejectthe Christian argument. And it seems thatyou denythe second premise, FTI2 — Arcane Sandwich -
Arguments for and against the identification of Jesus with God
Given that both "God" and "Jesus" are fictions, yes / no depending on each e.g. Biblical, Quranic or Vedic author (make-believer) I suppose.Is Jesus God? — Arcane Sandwich
:strong: :lol:Can Santa Claus beat up Batman?
— T Clark
Nope, I think it's the other way around.
Batman can quite clearly whoop Santa Claus' ass. — Arcane Sandwich -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical ImplicationsShouldn't AGI participate in 'developing ethics' for itself (which humans might learn from) or do you mean, prior to AGI, humans should apply ethics to engineers / institutions 'developing AGI'? :chin:
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Nietzsche's fundamental objection against Christianity (Socrates/plato)You seem more pedantic than thoughtful. "Beware lest a statue slay you." :smirk:
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What exactly is Process Philosophy?
:smirk:
:up:
:up:
As I see it, this is why ...I'm beginning to see why [process] philosophy never really took off. — Darkneos
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/963559 -
Nietzsche's fundamental objection against Christianity (Socrates/plato)
:up: :up:Hegelian, something Nietzsche was not. The problem with 'Good and Evil' isn't only that it flips the valuation of world based 'Good and bad' on its head, and are thus world and life-denying, but also that it distorts them in the process... it moralises them. — ChatteringMonkey -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical Implications
No doubt this is true of "AI" (such as LLMs, AlphaGo series neural nets, etc) but only will be the case if exponentially self-improving Artificial General Intelligence (A) cannot be engineered and implemented or (B) cannot 'escape' the lab (which will be far less likely when AGI is operational). Otherwise, to wit:AI will always need human intervention in their operations, development and continual existence in the real world. — Corvus
https://www.zdnet.com/article/openais-o3-isnt-agi-yet-but-it-just-did-something-no-other-ai-has-done/You'll know AGI is here when the exercise of creating tasks that are easy for regular humans but hard for AI becomes simply impossible. — François Chollet, author of ARC-AGI and scientist in Google's artificial intelligence unit -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical ImplicationsInsofar as one wishes to avoid an anthropomorphic fallacy, I'm suggesting that "aspects of folk wisdom" are unwarranted and irrelevant to the topic of artificial intelligence.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Anthropomorphism -
Nietzsche's fundamental objection against Christianity (Socrates/plato)Nietsche did not exempt himself from the decadence of his era any more than Socrates denied he too was an ignorant Athenian.
:wink: -
Deep Songs:death: :flower:
I have had my fun
If I never get well no more
I have had my fun
If I never get well no more
Whoa, my health is fadin'
Oh yes, I'm goin' down slow
"Goin' Down Slow" (4:04)
A-side single, 1961
writer James B. Oden, 1942
performer Howlin' Wolf -
Nietzsche's fundamental objection against Christianity (Socrates/plato)"Freddy" makes the point (or suggestion) that eternity is here & now (concrete, embodied nature), therefore the only viable source of value (i.e. ^becoming, re/pro-creativity), rather than some imaginary – promised / make-believe – "hereafter' (abstract, dis-embodied spirit).
^self-overcoming -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical Implications
I don't understand your question.How may this be established clearly and, is it fettered by the sentient aspects of human perception and thinking?. — Jack Cummins -
Nietzsche's fundamental objection against Christianity (Socrates/plato)Yes, iirc, as N sees it Christianity, like Platonism, supremely(!) values some 'other world' (dis-embodied life, or "spirit") at the expense of absolutely(?) devaluing this world (embodied life), which he diagnoses as nihilism (—> cultural 'decay & decadence').
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Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical ImplicationsNo doubt (western) civilization is already dependent on IT and smart automated systems; this dependence grows exponentially year to year (soon month to month). We've been living inside 'the internet' for (at least) thirty years, and, as I see it, the upside is that soon 'the oligarchs' (of tech, finance, energy, etc) will also be as captive of AGI, etc as they/we are now captives of ubiquitous computing – and thereby (western) civilization might be controlled (on macro-scales) more synergistically and sustainably than is humanly possible. Imo, worst case, smart machines can't 'enslave exploit and slaughter' any more than we talking primates have done to ourselves (& the nature world) the last ten or so millennia ...
Why are you (especially with folk concepts like e.g "reflect" "protest" "cry out in pain" "its suffering") anthropomorphizing 'artificial intelligence'? -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical ImplicationsFrom a 2023/4 thread Heading into darkness
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/849802
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/849880
Both have always made more practical sense to me than any form of "sky daddy" (unseen total surveillance / gnostic panopticon ... aka "Big (Br)Other") worship.ancient forms of sun worship and fertility rites of paganism — Jack Cummins -
US Election 2024 (All general discussion)United States of Kakistan
31January25
Re: Dunning-Kruger populism ...
update:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/966525 -
What exactly is Process Philosophy?
:100:... dualism on a runaway train. How does a system not subject to natural laws become a source of those laws? Unmoved movers? Something from nothing? All you are [@Gnomon is] doing is complicating things unnecessarily. — Harry Hindu -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical Implications"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever ..."
~Genesis 3:22, KJV
Yes, I imagine – 'a plausible' best case scenario – 22nd/23rd century* Earth as a global nature preserve with a much smaller (>1 billion) human population of 'conservationists, park rangers & eco-travelers' who are mostly settled in widely distributed (regional), AI-automated arcologies (and even space habitats e.g. asteroid terreria) in order to minimize our ecological footprint as much as possible.James Lovelock, in his final writings spoke of the possiblity of a race of artificial intelligent beings and some remaining human beings overseeing the natural world. — Jack Cummins
No more than "humans worshipping" the internet (e.g. social media, porn, gambling, MMORPGs). As an idolatrous species we don't even "worship" plumbing-sanitation, (atomic) clocks, electricity grids, phones, banking or other forms of (automated) infrastructure which dominate – make possible – modern life.Would it be a matter of humans 'worshipping' the artificial intelligent beings as the superior 'overlords'?
IMO, as long as global civilization consists of scarcity-driven dominance hierarchies, "our overlords" will remain human oligarchs (scarcity brokers) 'controlling' human networks / bureaucracies (scarcity re-producers).
However, I suspect that the accelerating development and distribution of systems of metacognitive automation (soon-to-be AI agents rather than just AI tools (e.g. LLMs)) will also automate all macro 'human controls' before the last of the (tech/finance) oligarchs can pull the proverbial plugs; ergo ...It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God – but to [build it]. — Arthur C. Clarke
... my guess (hope): "AGI" (post-scarcity automation sub-systems —> Kardashev Type 1*) will serve and "ASI" (post-terrestrial megaengineering systems —> Kardashev Type 2) will master, and thereby post-scarcity h. sapiens (micro-agents) will be AGI's guests, passengers, wards, patients & protectees ... like all other terrestrial flora and fauna.*Who[What] would be servant and master? — Jack Cummins
:fire:Man is something that shall be overcome. Man is a rope, tied between beast and [the singularity] — a rope over an abyss. What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end. — Friedrich Nietzsche -
Deep Songs
"Devil in His Heart" (2:40)
A-side single, 1962
writer R. Drapkin
performers The Donays
https://youtu.be/fMwNBGM81Ps?si=0XfQ2cbe9acrXsI1
You know that what you eat
you are
But what is sweet now
turns so sour
We all know Obla-Di-Bla-Da
But can you show me
where you are? — George Harrison -
Necessity for Longevity in Metaphysical Knowledge
:fire:For me, the point of philosophy is not answering questions, but becoming more self-aware - not the end goal but the journey. — T Clark -
What exactly is Process Philosophy?
:yawn:But the astro-physical evidence of a singular point-of-origin for space-time made our cosmos seem contingent upon some outside force. — Gnomon
Yeah well there's no scientific EVIDENCE to support this anachronistic (crypto-creationist, woo-of-the-gaps :sparkle:) claim about the planck era universe. -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical ImplicationsA number of the topics you raise I've addressed in the post^^ I previously linked (and the other imbedded links). Any thoughts on what I wrote about the "Omega Point theory"?
If I correctly understand his work, I suspect Spinoza would say "to create substance" is impossible.Would it be possible to create Spinoza's form of substance itself in a system as opposed to in nature?
My scenario^^ makes immortality completely voluntary so worrying about 'existing eternally' isn't warranted.having to exist for eternity
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/530679 (+ links)^^ -
Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
Thanks, comrade. :fire: :mask:Like I said, I think there are two arguments for affirmative action. One s reparation for past wrongs and the other is equal representation. The facetious counter argument of 'color blindness' is poignantly laid to rest by 180 Proof. — Tobias
I hope all is well with you, Tobias, and that your corner of the world is not yet an oligarchic shitshow. -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical ImplicationsThe "Omega Point theory" (Tipler or Deutsch – not Chardin) makes sense to me iff the entire universe (or multiverse) is either an unbounded simulation (N. Bostrom)¹ or infinite mathematical structure (M. Tegmark)² ... such that "resurrection of the body" means each life is virtual (a finite program file) and is relived (rerun) until, as a "virtual afterlife", one involuntarily / randomly stops (program file deletes itself).
NB: Though my preferred 'eschatological speculation' is (non-supernatural, non-transcendence, non-dual) pandeism³, I'm betting on the technological singularity, or at least the advent of (benign) strong AI / AGI, to (help?) develop techniques for transferring a fully functioning live human brain to a synthetic system or body⁴ (ergo, unlike you, Jack, i'm bullish on AI, etc) – don't you think it's better not to die (I'm not (yet) living in denial, mate :death: :flower:) than to be resurrected (or reincarnated)? :smirk:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis [1]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_universe_hypothesis [2]
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/718054 [3]
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/530679 (+ links) [4] -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical Implications
Wtf :roll:virtual afterlife ... simulation of resurrected bodies — Jack Cummins -
Questioning the Idea and Assumptions of Artificial Intelligence and Practical Implications
I don't think so. Conceivability –/–> possibility.It is questionable but it is a possiblity. — Jack Cummins
Suppose "reflective self" (ego) is nothing but a metacognitive illusion¹ – hallucination – that persists in some kluge-like evolved brains? Meditative traditions focus on suspending / eliminating this (self-not self duality) illusion, no? e.g. Buddhist anattā, Daoist wúwéi, ... positive psychology's flow-state, etc.I generally see artificial intelligence as problematic as being without reflective self. — Jack Cummins
Suppose we "humans" are zombies which are unaware that we are zombies because human brains cannot perceive themselves directly (due to lack of sensory organs or perception within the brain)? If so, then "reflective self" might be just an exaptive glitch (spandrel) pecular to (some) higher mammals or just "humans", no?
Well, I find the notion "conscious machines" (i.e. synthetic phenomenology) to be a problematic prospect of them learning from us "humans" to develop "consciously" (as reflective selves) into apex predators or worse. Dumb tools to smart tools to smart agents to "conscious" smart agents – the last developmental step, I suspect, would be an extinction-event.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_illusion [1] -
Fascism in The US: Unlikely? Possible? Probable? How soon?
No doubt. To wit:I understand [fascism] to the extent that I see it as right wing populism. I don't see how it can be anything else. — Arcane Sandwich
Populists are politicians who appeal directly to the people when they should be consulting the political process, and who are prepared to set aside procedures and legal niceties when the tide of public opinion flows in their favor. Like Donald Trump, populists can win elections. Like Marine Le Pen in France and Geert Wilders in the Netherlands, they can disrupt the long-standing consensus of government. Or, like Nigel Farage and the Brexiteers in Britain, they can use the popular vote to overthrow all the expectations and predictions of the political class. But they have one thing in common, which is their preparedness to allow a voice to passions that are neither acknowledged nor mentioned in the course of normal politics. And for this reason, they are not democrats but demagogues — not politicians who guide and govern by appeal to arguments, but agitators who stir the unthinking feelings of the crowd. — Roger Scruton, 2017 -
What exactly is Process Philosophy?:sparkle: :lol:
Direction¹ (entropy) =/= purpose (telos).
[1] dissipative systems e.g. cosmogenesis, nucleogenesis, black hole evaporation, natural selection, autopoiesis ... -
Donald Trump (All General Trump Conversations Here)
This sort of bourgeois-feel good ahistoricism is always futile. In order to "emphasize commonality and common goals","future-oriented" whites should stop disproportionately benefiting political economically asap from the centuries-long legacy of dispossessing, enslaving, exploiting and discriminating against nonwhites. After all, it's "racism" that (still) systematically "emphasizes difference" (re: ethnic/color supremacy) and antiracist survivors who have always "fought" for "commonality" (i.e. we are all equally human).IMHO racism is best fought by emphasizing commonality and common goals rather than repeatedly emphasizing difference and/or prior victimhood within groups. The approach should be more future-oriented. — BitconnectCarlos
180 Proof
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