Amplification would have been an issue. Some of Bach’s piano works are pretty out there,

So it seems the discussion here also concerns among the rape issue. . . gender neutrality, equality, and equity. Your opinions on the matter only seem to support the notion that we are inherently not ready as a society for gender neutrality even though we are moving in that direction. — substantivalism

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Any actions that prevent anti social, coercive and violent behaviour are to be welcomed and encouraged. However, we have to deal with society we live in and its cultural norms. These norms can change dramatically very swiftly. 20th century was such a time.
Who we are is dependent upon many factors and I think social factors and the “village” are a dominant influence. I’m in UK and whilst it has changed a lot there are still some strong strands of thought and behaviour running through society.
In UK most people can say, do, dress how they like. It is wonderful. There are pockets where this may not be the case but on the whole we are an okay tolerant bunch. So men and women are free to pursue their lives as they wish.
However, there are some areas where women are at a disadvantage and there needs to be some measures put in place to allow women to live a full life.
Sport is obvious and I cannot see how anyone can object to women being allowed to compete exclusively with other women.
Also, places where woman are vulnerable and uncomfortable (in our culture) changing rooms, bathrooms, refuges, lesbian dating sites etc and men need excluding.
Society in uk is pretty good at allowing women to prosper and lead full lives (there are challenges) but society should still allow for personal choice. Most of my mates are blokes and I drink pints. My choice is not gender neutral. It is changing, the youngsters are much less rigid in friendships and that is great but until society has eradicated the problems women face they need certain parts of society to be male free.
I cannot see what is controversial or inconsistent with my stance.
A man can be a trans woman but they are still male. They can do anything a woman can because women can do anything they wish. However, they are men and should be excluded from women’s exclusive places for the reasons I’ve outlined.
We are living in a time where access to knowledge, comfort and a world of exciting possibilities but happiness seems to elude so many people. Philosophy should have the answers but no one wants to listen.

Given that some human has ovotesticular syndrome caused by 46,XX/46,XY chimerism, what is the biological feature that either makes them a male or makes them a female? Of particular relevance are those with bilateral ovotestis and/or streak gonads, as well as ambiguous genitalia. — Michael

Actually that was interesting to research. I will no longer state all individuals are either male or female. Some are mosaic 46,XX/46 XY

500 affected individuals have been reported to date.

Men with ovotesticular DSD have azoospermia and usually display a Sertoli-cell only pattern on histological examination of the testes. Therefore, fertility is very unlikely, even with assisted reproductive techniques. Leydig cell function tends to decrease over time, and testosterone suppletion is necessary in most adult men. Normal menstrual cycles, and possibly fertility, have been observed in some women with ovotesticular DSD and conserved ovarian tissue and a uterus; however, many women develop oligo- or amenorrhea and families should be counseled about the likelihood of infertility (Boucekkine et al., 1994; Verkauskas et al., 2007). Although historically most individuals with ovotesticular DSD have been raised as females, scarce data on psychosexual function suggest an equal or even better outcome in males (Verkauskas et al., 2007).

But they are either male or female. They aren’t both.

It’s an interesting subject.

It's not logically consistent to base a policy of disbarring people from women's spaces on women being disturbed by the physical presence of men and then base entry to those spaces not on physical characteristics defining such presence but ultimately on something that can be entirely unseen like chromosomes. — Baden

It would be based on physical characteristics in the vast vast majority of the time. It is obvious who is male and female unless a lot of money is spent on synthetic hormones and surgery. I would speculate it would be still possible to give the correct sex of the person.
If there are a few anomalies then so be it.

How (philosophically) does a male (if there is such a thing since it’s a spectrum) become a woman? It isn’t how they dress, what they do for a job, what they watch/consume etc. so what is it?

Have you details of a person who is both male and female?

Well, it's culturally dependent — Baden

100%. If there were no cultural issues then there would be no issues in men and women sharing spaces. However, there are issues.

How does a trans woman’s womanhood manifest itself?
This is something that I find puzzling. Can anyone explain?

There is no person ever that is a bit of both. Not one. Sex is binary.

Challenged on what basis? Physically, a trans man---who you must want to be in women's bathrooms because you claim they are women due to their biological sex---can easily look more like a man than a trans woman, so it can't be a physical basis because that would contradict your exclusive focus on biological sex. — Baden

I’m not bothered in the slightest where a trans man goes. Preferably the men’s room. Most of them will want to go to the men’s room. However, if a trans man wishes to use the female restroom they would be allowed as they are female.

Men don’t routinely go in women’s spaces and will be challenged by women if they do. Hopefully, then arrested and prosecuted. Thankfully, most men respect boundaries regarding toilets etc.

not something that can be objectively police — Baden

It won’t be policed. It will be fine like it has always been done.

Are we really concerned about where people relieve themselves? Or are we really discussing whether the process of transitioning actually changes a woman into a man? — frank

Both. Yes, people should be concerned about the erosion of women’s spaces and no, a man can never be a woman and vice versa.
I’m amazed any rational person thinks otherwise.

I think there is a bit of Handmaid’s Tale vibe from the dismissive attitude to exclusive women’s spaces.

I’ve said before, if someone passes then no one is any the wiser. They aren’t women though. There is more to being a woman than looking like one. Not that very many trans women “pass”

I'm pretty sure that science is against you, and that indeed human biology allows for what appears to range — tim wood

You are incorrect. There is no range.

I think you need to expand on what you mean here. — Christoffer

using or involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something

Mainly someone.

Depicting violence or recording violence can be art. I was thinking more of deliberate violence being part of a piece of work. Would it be deemed art? I’m no expert and I will defer to people who are.

Violence is a component of something else — Christoffer

But the violence would be part of the piece.

So what is a female? What is a male? — tim wood

Is this a trick question? Your father was a male your mother was a female. Your mother gave birth to you.

Why would you be so dismissive of difference? — tim wood

How am I being dismissive? All these people are either biologically male or female.

You cannot have violence as art, — Christoffer

Why not? Two men in a gallery intentionally have a violent fight. Performance could be art, the blood and sweat left could be art, a video installation of fight could be art. Why not?

What strikes me is that there are certain presumptions built into saying this or that is or isn't art, which are easy to miss, and which often include knowledge of the artist's intention, and the apprehension or misapprehension of the artwork's viewers, and the validity or lack thereof of particular institutions of art. When it comes down to it, for anything beyond the obvious, only the hypothetical cultural "person", society personified, can and does validly make the judgement. — Baden

I’m more and more open minded as I get older, which isn’t usually the way! I’m confident enough to not care if I don’t “get” it or think someone is bullshitting. I’m happy to say it is a piece of work that does nothing for me but don’t dismiss it. The most artistic thing Hirst did was amass millions. I was quite impressed.
As for violence as art. Why not?

The social construct was created as a means of distinguishing between the sexes in a society that covers their bodies with clothing. — Harry Hindu

Never understood where the leap came for gender to describe societal differences between the sexes to people wanting society to validate their right to pick a gender. Very dismissive of women and their status in society. Women fought long and hard to get the rights and respect they now have.

Damien Hurst's cow is art has nothing to do with whether you, I or Vera Mont like it or consider people who go to see it, gullible etc — Baden

I 100% agree. I used it as something that I thought was of little merit but needed the slaughter of an animal to complete. I stopped replying because there was little point

It doesn’t. The 2% figure includes people with syndromes that only males or females have. A tiny percentage of people are ambiguous but that is because of developmental issues. It is not a spectrum. Do you believe it is and if so why?

This is a genuine question to try and understand why it is important for all the various labels for the various phenomena to be not based on sex?
I am interested in why in 2025 that anyone even had to label themselves. I’m a bloke because I am but I also read Jane Austen, I love cooking and I love some other stuff that be seen as traditionally female. I have no issue with how anyone dresses, who they have relationships with etc etc. However, in the society we are in today certain activities and certain spaces should exclude men. Imho. For participation in sport and for times when women have to go to bathroom or get undressed. Why is this so controversial and hateful to some people?
I do say that a trans woman is a man. I am happy to address them as the name they wish to be called but cannot and will not see them as women. Why is that wrong? If people think I am wrong , why?
I find the subject fascinating because I see it as simple but people make it complicated.

Well, what was said in reference to post surgical trans women was: "A man with his penis removed doesn't have a vagina". — LuckyR

Which is factually correct.

The prevalence of molestation and violent inter-sex tendencies among the male population. — substantivalism

What do you want society to do about it? If you have answers i’m in full support.

Thanks for your agreement I'm sure those rape survivors appreciate your. . . desire to. . . eventually. . . maybe. . . possibly. . . address it.

Just not. . . now. — substantivalism

I’m with you all the way. But until you’ve fixed the world maybe just allow women to go for a pee without men in the bathrooms. Seems fair

I’m not sure what you are going on about. What problem are you trying to solve?

Do you have a problem with mixed sex spaces?

Eventually those people walk out of their cubicles. . . and see each other. . . in the same space. — substantivalism

Yes. I think women need certain exclusive places for certain activities.

As for the rest I doubt we will ever agree. I’m not even sure what you think needs to be done.

The reality is that we are stuck with mixed sex spaces. — substantivalism

I don’t have an issue with unisex spaces with individual cubicles.

Are you going to remove all mixed sex spaces in all aspects of society? I — substantivalism

What mixed sex spaces need removing?

Trans people are really women according to definition 56 — substantivalism

They aren’t according to United Kingdom law. How are they women? In your view? What makes a trans woman a woman?

As Michael continues to show through his own links there is the still prevalent risk trans-people have as regards using the bathroom according to their sex — substantivalism

Then it is up to the authorities to provide a space for these vulnerable men. Not foist them on women.

Well yes and mostly no. True a minority of trans women have "bottom surgery", but of those who do, which was the subject matter being discussed, almost noone has their penis removed without the creation of a vagina. Which was the claim I was addressing. — LuckyR

It isn’t a vagina.

.
the muscular tube leading from the external genitals to the cervix of the uterus in women and most female mammals.

nteresting. So noting you have little understanding of a surgical procedure is now an "insult". Okay, I guess I apologize for "insulting" you. While you're right that few trans folks get surgery, that doesn't address my opinion on the status of those who do. — LuckyR

I have a perfectly adequate understanding thanks very much. I think your opinion is feeble and based upon nothing. That cover it?

Your declaration of what "most" trans women look like inspires no confidence considering creation of a neo vagina is standard transition surgery so you're clearly out of your depth. — LuckyR

Most trans women don’t have their penises removed. I’m not sure having a penis removed would ensure a man looks like a woman. What is it with the insult?

Where does my concept of a chair come from? Perhaps over a period of time I see many different concrete and particular sets of shapes, but each time this set of shapes has been labelled a "chair". Eventually, because of the nature of the brain, I will begin to understand the concept of "chair". IE, it is impossible to understand a new concept by seeing just one particular and concrete instantiation of it. — RussellA

Your concept of chair and recognising a chair comes from many aspects of how we interpret the world. The detail of all the aspects of how you end up looking at a chair and recognising it is a chair would fill a library. However, a child doesn't need to know the detail to know what a chair is.
The detail is fascinating and great for discussion but is mainly irrelevant.
I like detail and I am fascinated by why we think and how we have amassed such incredible understanding of the world but it isn't necessary for living. How different people view the modern world is incredible to me.

Your argument makes no sense. Who is likely to disrupt a women's exclusive place more, a person with breasts and a vagina who happens to be XY or a short person with a beard and a deep voice who happens to be XX? — LuckyR

A man with his penis removed does not have a vagina. A woman with a beard and a deep voice is still a woman.

There will be no gender inspection at the entrance to toilets etc so if a man passes for a woman because they have had extensive work then no one will be any the wiser. Most trans women look like men. If a trans man wishes to use the men’s facilities no man will object. If they wish to use the women’s facilities they have every right to do as they are a woman.

It's either sex segregation or not. We either allow them to mix while aware of the risks involved or we allow the government as well as social strong handed individuals to intervene and restrict this mixing. — substantivalism

Do you wish to eradicate single sex spaces?

Why is it less safe?

Is it because there is a rape/molestation issue. . . having to do with one particular sex statistically speaking. . . should we then be talking about that because its the reason why its unsafe?

Should we be. . . proposing social/cultural solutions for this difficult mental health crisis that a mere legal band aid isn't going to fix?

Really weird we are just. . . avoiding that. — substantivalism

I agree with all of that and male violence should be addressed. Until then maybe keep males out of places where women are vulnerable. Once tgat has been overcome then ask women if they feel socially comfortable in toilets and changing rooms with men even when there is no threat of violence. I would hazard a guess many would prefer to keep men out.