Ukraine has been working towards implementing a modern, free, transparent democracy. — jorndoe

:lol:

Well he’s making it pretty easy for Kamala, who’s an awful actress.

God this is fucking embarrassing.

15 minutes in— She looks nervous, dry-mouthed, and is delivering memorized lines, ignoring the questions. She’s delivering them without stuttering and with coherence, but it looks fake and forced.

Trump is his usual rambling, incoherent buffoon self — repeating his rally lines reflexively. But he looks more natural doing it.

Man, it would have been nice to have Bernie up there with Trump just once.

Would you rather see it a Muslim state? — BitconnectCarlos

Nope.

Having 6 million Palestinians come to Israel brings "Israel as a Jewish state" into question. — BitconnectCarlos

As it should.

magnitudes more strife and difference. — BitconnectCarlos

I’d say the strife the last few decades has been pretty bad— so you better be sure. I don’t see it as a certainty. Maybe pockets of violence— maybe just issues at first but not in the long run, etc. Giving Likud and Hamas less power could be the ultimate result, which would be good.

You seem far too certain for such an important possibility.

different community with different values there can very well end up being strife as both groups — BitconnectCarlos

Isn’t there strife now?

This is convenient framing that you, like some other posters, like to proscribe for us. — Echarmion

It’s a framing because that’s what you, and others, are constantly doing. You just did it above, and you know it.

For example:

US as the great Satan and the Ukrainians as the hapless victims. — Echarmion

The US is not a great Satan and Ukrainians are not hapless victims, although most of the population is. Ditto Russia.

That framing is leading you to exclude the russian war dead — Echarmion

I feel for the Russian dead as well. But they’re the invading force, so yes I de-emphasize that. Doesn’t mean it’s right to kill innocent people — regardless of nationality.

This war is also a russian tragedy. How do you propose to understand it if you're not even seeing that side of the equation? — Echarmion

I think it’s an unfortunate move by Russia— even stupid in a political and strategic sense. But they do seem to be winning, and now have a lot of leverage. I don’t necessarily like that, but that seems to be the case so far.

So it’s tough to say it’s a “tragedy” for Putin. The Russian people on the other hand— yeah, maybe it is.

Hey Mikie, what do you think of the idea of a mosque being built next to your house? — BitconnectCarlos

Ohh cool, I love when people play Socrates!

I’d have no problem with a mosque next to my house! Muslims are kick-ass people, so far as my personal experiences go. And you are asking me, after all — so there you have it. You wouldn’t? Why?

They'll blast calls to prayer 5x daily including at like 3am (don't worry, the times will shift.) Excited? Great! Embrace diversity. — BitconnectCarlos

Being woken up at 3am would be annoying to me. I find Christian church bells irritating sometimes too, but they’re generally pleasant. 3am not so much.

Also, hope you're not a dog owner. — BitconnectCarlos

I am. But why do you ask? …

They don't have the best reputation in Islamic texts so be careful. — BitconnectCarlos

The Quran is anti-dog? Guess I should watch out for those Christians then too..some nasty stuff in that Bible.

Well that was fun. Now about that genocide…

“We can’t let people in — they’re vicious animals.”

“Some behave that way because they’ve been living in concentration camps.”

“Yes but we have no choice but to keep them there.”

“Why?”

“Because they’re vicious animals.”

And on and on we go.

You should explain why people's rights cannot be exercised. — Benkei

Because it’s “self evident.” Get with the program.

So you'd agree countries are not literally forced to start an offensive war? — Echarmion

“Forced”? Of course not — no one had a gun to Bush’s head to invade Afghanistan or Iraq, or Bibi’s head to start a genocide in Gaza. Or Putin’s head to invade Ukraine. In a certain sense, no wars are “forced.” In another, whenever you want to justify one, just say it was “defensive.”

I see 573 pages has done no good. We’re apparently still at “If you disagree with me you think Putin is good.” Pity.

war is inevitable. — Echarmion

Nope.

The genocide continues, thanks to Bibi. Another Hitler wannabe. How sadly ironic.

Kind of sad that Ukrainians have to suffer and die because they’re in between a proxy war instigated by the United States. I feel for them. Still hoping for a ceasefire.

James Earl Jones. :sad:

Russia and China want to influence the election as much as possible— of course they do. The US does it all the time. (The difference is that we’ll support a coup or invade.)

But the Russian influence is mostly social media. Why wouldn’t they do so? They’ll fund people who are already saying things they like, unleash a bunch of bots, etc. But what’s the actual impact? I doubt it’s very much. The claims are overblown. Just as they were in 2016. Hillary didn’t lose because of a Russian bot farm; she lost because she sucked.

It’s still interesting to see what they’re rooting for. In China’s case, mostly just chaos and division. For Russia, mostly undermining support for Ukraine. Not rocket science to see why this would be the case.

They'll deliver as little as they can get away with. — Tzeentch

Yeah.

Suppose they did nothing. Would you then vote Trump? — Tzeentch

If Trump were offering something better on other issues, yes. Nuclear weapons, healthcare, education, guns, anything. His stopping funding for Ukraine would be a bright spot, but for the wrong reasons — and it’s uncertain whether he would. On Israel he’s even more hawkish than Biden.

You think the establishment gives two shits about climate or pollution? :brow: — Tzeentch

I think they want to get elected, and the environmental vote is getting larger and more vocal.

You think Trump and the republicans give two shits about abortion? No. But they sure did scrap Roe v Wade. It’s not always lip service. Sometimes you have to deliver, even if it’s too little (IRA was biggest climate investment in history — and yet still too little; would have never happened under Trump.)

Summary so far:

(1) Trump was the worst president in history (or close), a traitor to the country, a degenerate con man, and pathological liar— on top of being an empty narcissist with no ideas other than personal branding. A climate denier and plutocrat lover, to boot.

(2) Trump is rightfully hated and extremely unpopular. Currently losing in the polling, which is no surprise.

(3) Harris is a boring, establishment candidate. And is now likely to win, given the choices.

What a shame the Republican Party and their slaves have no souls. It’s sad. But at least it makes it easier for them to lose, as they’ve been doing the last 8 years. Given that they’re the party of climate denial and pro-pollution, I’m at least happy about that.

Incidentally, it looks like North Carolina is now in play— which is interesting.

eating a shit sandwich and starving themselves — 180 Proof

Bad example. I think I’d rather starve than eat shit. :lol:

They should leave behind the notion that the least bad is the best choice for independents. Cause none can predict the future, and what you make the least bad right now, in the future it may turn into the worst choice. — Eros1982

This is really silly.

Trump withdrew US from the Paris Climate Treaty. But there are many moral dilemmas pertaining to the Democrats now that I think it — Eros1982

Trump is still absolutely terrible on the environment. If it’s something you truly care about, this issue alone is motive enough for keeping him from office. That happens to mean pushing a button for Harris— fine. But to claim one should throw away one’s vote (which is all that is) or not vote at all is literally insane, given the professed values.

And most of your claims amount BLM, etc., are straight from right-wing media. Worth analyzing.

In some of these articles you get the impression that all white and old men hate women — Eros1982

Well then your impression is wrong. I’m sure sexism exists, but this cartoon version won’t get you anywhere.

If that is the case, aren't there any moral dilemmas for people who will vote/support/sponsor a party that bets in divisions simply because it loves power? — Eros1982

So targeting different demographics is surprising to you? Have you been living on Mars?

“Bets in divisions.” Right— and it’s somehow the Democrats that should give us pause over this. Not the fact that Trump and his MAGA slaves have single-handedly polarized this country to levels not seen since the civil war, targeting young men, rural people, evangelicals, whites, and the elderly— along with the usual sexists, racists, homophobes, transphobes, and xenophobes that have become a fixture.

But yeah, targeting single women is the real problem.

Brazil Blocks X

Good. Fuck Elon Musk and his fake free speech absolutism. The same guy who caved to Modi and is now suing advertisers he once said could “go fuck themselves” and “Don’t advertise” to is now crying about not being allowed to manipulate an entire country with his right-wing propaganda.

All the brain-dead teenagers will be outraged I’m sure. Now they can pretend to care about free speech and be victims at the same time. Cool.

Many women will say that men hate Democrats only because they love equality more than Republicans — Eros1982

I’ve never heard one woman say that. Bullshit strawman.

Climate models have long predicted that a warming world would lead to higher humidity, because warmer air evaporates more water from Earth’s surface and can hold more moisture. The consequences of more humid heat include greater stress on the human body, increased odds of more extreme rainfall, warmer nights and higher cooling demand.
With only a few days left in meteorological summer, defined as June to August, this summer is on track to be the most humid in the United States in 85 years of recordkeeping based on observations of dew point — a measure of humidity — compiled by Hudson Valley meteorologist Ben Noll. It’s also likely to end up being the most humid summer globally, Alaska-based climate scientist Brian Brettschneider said in an email to The Washington Post.
If both trends hold, then five of the most humid summers in both the United States and worldwide will have occurred since 1998

—WaPo

Yeah, it always struck me as funny how Trump gets credit for his ad libs and general off-script remarks. The truth is he sucks at it; he’s an awful speaker. Mostly incoherent, and almost always the same lines, 99% of which are lies (“the country is going to hell, everything is being destroyed”). It’s easier to talk extemporaneously when you can make things up, unbound by reality.

In any case, I hope he continues doing it.

I see NOS is talking in circles again. Don’t look for consistency, folks— there’s no principles to discern. It’s pure political tribalism. When it’s something Trump does, they will find a way to make it fit into their worldview, no matter how contradictory.

So now Trump is pushing for being the “best on women’s reproductive rights”— :rofl: — because he’s losing in the polls and it’s generally an issue they’re being crushed on. If he had any principles or soul whatsoever (or any balls), he’d be calling for a national ban on the murdering of babies (which is what these nutjobs actually believe). But there’s no chance of that. Instead he’ll mumble some nonsense and his ass-kissing slaves like our resident Trumper and Ayn Rand devotee will endlessly defend it, pretending it all makes perfect sense.

Don’t waste too much time on it.

—

In other news: Harris has her first interview tomorrow. I think she should do several interviews, not just one big one. Too easy for Fox News to demonize if even the slightest phrasing is off.

“This will go down in history as #Beyoncegate“

:lol:

24 hours later: totally forgotten.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVtSjmMXkAAoYrC?format=jpg&name=medium

Just to quell any speculation, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will I join Donald Trump on an electoral ticket. Our positions on certain fundamental issues, our approaches to governance, and our philosophies of leadership
could not be further apart.

— The integrity and independence candidate.

a communist whose ideology has killed more people than all religions combined. — BitconnectCarlos

As compared to a capitalist, whose ideology has killed and enslaved about 10x as many.

Lost it when he said that his approach to climate change was to leave it to the free market. — Mr Bee

The free market. The deus ex machina of all crypto-plutocrats. That wonderful abstract bullshit reason given whenever you don’t want the government to regulate your pet industry.

The free market. Doesn’t exist, but the closer we get to it, the worse things become. Probably the stupidest concept there is— but so many people believe in it as if it were God. Another one of those indicators you can use to determine just he how big of an idiot you interlocutor is — as soon as they bust that one out, you know. That and “the climate is always changing” :lol:

Yeah. I at least applaud that he takes climate change as the existential threat that it is. Maybe that brings some sanity to the Republicans, if only at the margins. Otherwise he’s useless.

I suspect the Clint Eastwood spaghetti series might qualify. Just me. — jgill

I like some of those too, but I was looking for a year.

highly unlikely she is doing anything other than using the DNC as a free advertising platform for her book. — Baden

True— but money-grubbing conservatives existed during Romney and McCain’s and Bush and Reagan’s time too. Didn’t see them at the DNC. Then again, those guys weren’t (rightfully) demonized like Trump is.

I don’t pay much mind to the theatrics. The whole convention is ridiculous. And I have costal real estate to sell to anyone who gets teary-eyed over these speeches.

So RFK will drop out on Friday, and will endorse Trump. Big surprise.

Shows what a spineless weirdo he always has been, and now solidifies his place as having one of the worst judgments in history.

I don't think I have ever seen a UK Tory saying "I'm still a conservative, but please vote Labour this time, because our leader is a corrupt and destructive person." — unenlightened

It’s not typical to have your former press Secretary tell people to vote against you, no. Even in this country. Trump is just that awful.

First, Trump can only campaign on lies, insults and exaggerations, because they are his only weapons. Second, Biden’s economic record is better than the previous administration. — Wayfarer

True.