Brian Wilson was on my list for a while. :sad: Bad vibrations.

LA protests — no protesters have shot or killed a cop. Just a “day of love,” I guess. But funny how the Trump cult suddenly thinks otherwise. How could it be? It’s almost as if they have no principles whatsoever beyond Neanderthal-like loyalty to a team. Post hoc justifications are a laugh though.

More attention being diverted as the country’s future is squandered in the service of the fossil fuel lobby and Wall Street — which owns Trump and the republican party. It’s a good strategy.

People somehow voted for this fascist asshole, so you reap what you sow. If most Americans don’t like it, as polling indicates, then show up in the streets and in the polling booth next time.

The immigration thing is especially funny. They ran on a problem that didn’t exist, continue to claim it’s the end of the world, and now use it to turn the US into a military dictatorship. And all you have to do is say “illegal alien” or immigrant. Reminds me of Israel — bomb a school or hospital? Hamas was there. Kill thousands of kids? Hamas. Turn Gaza to rubble? Hamas.

Send troops to “subdue” peaceful protests? Immigrants.

And no one seems to care. Oh well.

But it actuallly seems - gulp - a good idea. — Wayfarer

Which is why there’s no way it happens.

Trump said some things — Tzeentch

Yeah, I’m sure if Obama or Biden said 1/1000th of what Trump’s said, this too would be your reaction.

Believe it or not, when you’re president, words actually matter.

Great news from Australia. So 3 elections since Trump took office: Germany, Canada, and Australia. We can see a trend.

With Sheinbaum in Mexico, the US is now surrounded by governments that can’t stand Trump, and have alienated its overseas friends by interfering in the Germany election and slapping tariffs on everyone else. Not to mention pissing off the Danes with the unforced error of discussing annexing Greenland. You have a fairly weak but not friendly labor leader in the UK, and China willing to go to the mats (which apparently wasn’t considered) over trade.

All while two wars are still raging and prices are still high, despite promises of all that being solved on day one, or “very quickly.”

Amazing what can be destroyed in only 3 months! I admire the pace.

you skipped the q. :shrug: — jorndoe

No I didn’t. Since everything is defensive, the gravy train won’t stop. So the answer is no.

“Defense” lol

Yes, everything is defensive. So the gravy train will always be running.

As far as Ukraine goes, prolonging this conflict is awful. The US should fuck off.

Fingers crossed that Trump, in his idiocy, creates another unintended benefit and labor does well.

Why is it an idiotic decision? — Benkei

Because it’s an excuse to continue the war, to continue spending billions more lining the pockets of Lockheed Martin et al., and because it increases the chances of direct confrontation with Russia.

It’s one step closer to his Nobel Peace prize. — Punshhh

We’re all rooting for him to finally get it I’m sure.

Minerals deal signed. Another stupid and disastrous move by the clown train. But they sure do make idiotic decisions quickly. That counts for something.

Surely it is up to "us" to boycott the bullshit, to counter the propaganda, to vote out the liars and thieves. "They" are not going to do it — by definition. — unenlightened

Of course.

I was merely pointing out yet another reason this industry ought to be boycotted, sued, and destroyed as quickly as possible.

Might as well blame it on the boog — unenlightened

If I create a product that’s addictive, and I know is addictive, and that causes cancer (which I also know), then spend decades suppressing that knowledge (and my own research), billions of dollars on propaganda to convince people the blame lies on them, lobbying government for tax exemptions, subsidies, and deregulation— yeah, I think I’m mostly to blame.

To say nothing of the externalities, to medical costs and environmental damage. Hardly the free market of choice. Especially when readily available alternatives are systematically discouraged for years.

True. But it’s similar to cigarette smoking and tobacco companies. Sure, one perspective puts most of the responsibility on the consumer — no one is forcing you to smoke. But that ignores a lot as well.

The fact is that these “externalities” are never considered. If consumers knew the real risks and were charged the real cost, it would be a different story. There’s also monumental lies, propaganda, and covering up of research by this industry, as is now coming to light more and more.

Fossil fuel companies have caused roughly 28 trillion dollars in damages from 1991 to 2020.

In terms of consequences— the next 20 years will cause much more. Since the “free market” cult doesn’t account for externalities, and since the government never does anything right (according to same cult), there’s nothing we can do.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08751-3.epdf?sharing_token=H5u0C4WGGIkJGCgWbd9eJdRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PNVn5qNJQAINIGB8Dl-ZFRseL9v-xVGqFBTn1TeHE_3ueXbo3snVixx3hvsfWgmcaPCnna09SMvt9h8HRBx8EHJnhK9__dORtj8jDr9f7gV6pbSI3Rpd2nqWosrIBEQf_279y5d4WhGC7w6CE0eEdyt5N-ru0E9WwHqgsnL01OkGKaAt1Bk58IOl-dosZblNM%3D&tracking_referrer=www.cbsnews.com

Of course, if you actually believe cult claims like that, I have a used wig to sell you.

So make it easier to come. Then people wouldn’t be “illegal.”

What’s funny about all this immigration talk is that everyone assumes there’s a problem. There isn’t.

We should be letting even more people in. The entire issue was invented by Republicans for political gain. Much like the national debt, trans in sports, voting fraud, etc.

If someone decided tomorrow that jaywalking was ruining the country, in six months half the country would be agreeing with it — and the other half reacting against it.

I am ready to get banned for misogyny and general bigotry now. I am tired of the general low quality of discussion on this forum, so I don't even really care anymore. — Brendan Golledge

Fingers crossed.

The left must clearly be in this category, because they talk about equality, and then discriminate against white men. — Brendan Golledge

I think MAGA is in the conventional stage of morality, which is concerned with law and order. — Brendan Golledge

All this is true— provided you swallow right-wing propaganda whole. In that Alternative Reality, all of this makes perfect sense.

It’s clear from President Donald Trump’s decision to pause the sweeping global tariffs that he said he would never back down from that the man is a formidable genius and arguably the greatest president in American history.

After seeing U.S. financial markets plummet and the threat of a recession grow exponentially, Trump decided on April 9 to lower his tariffs on most other countries to 10% for 90 days. Boldly getting nothing in return for negotiating against himself over the trade war he started.

[…]

Clearly the best president ever, folks. No U.S. leader has ever lost so much for no reason while regaining some of it and accomplishing nothing with such efficiency. 

https://apple.news/AdbjSJ7ijQ9S8SBvkbyN3SQ

That about sums up this past week, where the “great businessman” and grand negotiator managed to negotiate his way into trillions of lost dollars.

Reminds me of the “Alcohol is the cause of, and solution to, all of life’s problems” joke. In this case, the alcohol is Trump— maybe Trump Vodka, for example, which went belly up.

Anyway— as the casino-bankrupting Trump sinks the economy and once again reduces the United States to a laughingstock, while accomplishing nothing beyond more efficiently distributing wealth to the .001%, I wonder two things: (1) when will China be the world’s sole superpower? Looking more like a decade or two, tops.

And (2): given this was all totally predictable, just how stupid is the American electorate? Perhaps it’s a sign of resignation, a suicide wish. A degenerated culture. Can’t blamed them, I guess— they’ve been systematically reduced to slaves over the years. Still, it’s worth pondering…

So another climate thread degenerated into a argument about whether idiots should be allowed to spam and derail discussion.

I still applaud your effort @Moliere.

Fly never if it's at all avoidable, and for heaven's sake don't go on ocean cruises. — Vera Mont

:up:

Cruises are so awful for the environment, it’s insane.

And so on. Plenty of data, for those who take a look. — Banno

When you’re a climate denier, data and evidence don’t matter. Better to go with one’s feelings.

how can a lover of nature and humanity best assist the world through the coming disruption? — Moliere

Things that come to mind:

1. Focus on local issues: one’s workplace and town/city. Run for something, petition, vote, etc. Public utilities are a good place to start. Town councils. City councils. Boards of directors. Etc.

2. Electrify everything. Although much electricity generation comes from natural gas and there’s problems with transmission lines, electrification should continue as much as possible. It’s much easier to clean up the electric grid than it is to wait until it’s completely clean before going electric. Heat pumps are a great example — better to replace those old furnaces now.

3. Divest from anything that supports fossil fuels. Take your money out of banks and put them in credit unions. Invest in green companies and research. Make sure your retirement funds aren’t heavily skewed towards fossil fuel companies.

4. Buy local as much as possible. Big Ag is a major contributor to emissions. Eat less meat, especially red meat.

5. Take public transportation as much as possible.

Many more…

Though I find it difficult to argue for this and not also to prohibit climate change denial. — fdrake

Good point.

I think the Trump thread move is great. I’d like to see something similar with climate change. But I’ve argued that already in “New Thread?” to no avail, so I’ll leave it there.

The Trump/Musk backed judge in Wisconsin lost. First real test of voter sentiment.

Who knew the world is now ending because of…vandalism of cars. I thought it was wokeness or Hunter’s laptop or something. Glad to stay up on the latest media-driven obsessions of the clown show.

It’s a great move and I applaud it. :clap:

The waste! The fraud! The abuse! Oh my!

Oh wait— it’s just more exaggerated, delusional bullshit. How shocking.

Reality denial? — ssu

Changed. :up:

There goes the Donald Trump thread.

Yeah yeah yeah…Red Team does the same shit, if not worse, and we don’t care because Red Team Good.


There’s not even an attempt to cover the dogmatism. They display it with pride.

Endless hypocrisy cycle.

Trump and his loser nominees will inevitability screw up even more— only with the environment, the economy, foreign policy, healthcare, education, taxes, etc.

What’s funny is that his idiotic followers and spineless congress now have that part of the brain that accepts mistakes removed; thus we now have to endure endless speculation. This is all COMPLEX and NUANCED.

Lord how I miss the simple, straightforward days of Hillary’s emails…

:rofl:

Glad to see this devolve into exactly the kind of absurdity that inspired it. Nice job boys :clap:

The only true way to deal with science-denying morons. Satire and sarcasm.

:lol:

This is great. I can’t even see what you’re responding to, but I love it all the same.

Ever occur to you that maybe Trump himself had something to do with that? — tim wood

I think this is fair. Compare how Obama was treated in conservative media — he held a coffee while saluting! He wore a tan suit! He asked for dijon mustard! He’s a Muslim! He wants to make himself king! Not to mention endless references to Hitler. For years and years this happened. I couldn’t stand Obama, but it was almost never criticism of doing too LITTLE for working people, or for bailing out banks and the auto industry, or for betraying people on the public option, or for the drone wars. When he was criticized for this, it was minimal— largely because conservatives applaud much of it themselves.

“Liberal” media are also hysterical and largely unfair. The Russia stuff from the beginning was obviously ridiculous to anyone not wearing DNC blinders, the stuff about not disavowing David Duke was BS, the stuff about Charlottesville was BS, the pathetic worship of Robert Mueller, etc.

BUT — and this is where the “all politicians lie” and “both parties are the same” simplemindedness breaks down — Trump has beyond a doubt given them far more to work with. His lies are more numerous and more blatant, his corruption and lack of knowledge about the world, the economy, the military, the government, history, science, philosophy, art — everything except self-promotion— is unlike anything that’s come before. And he’s great at dog-whistling and implications, always making sure (probably thanks to years of being sued and dealing with lawyers) he has plausible deniability.

Imagine Obama likening his opposition to vermin and communists, or implying or explicitly advocating for jailing them. Or saying the election was stolen? What would the reaction on Fox News have been, when they blew a gasket over a condiment preference?

Trump is indeed different. You can’t whip your side into a frenzy and become ever-more extreme in your rhetoric and advocacy of violence and then be surprised when there’s an assassination attempt. I don’t like assassination attempts either — no one serious does — but once again the hypocrisy was so heavy afterwards it was nearly unbearable.

It’s an endless circle of calling out hypocrisy. Both sides are usually correct when they do so. That doesn’t make them equal. Republicans are simply more dangerous and bigger hypocrites. If saying that automatically makes one “biased,” fine. Then we need more bias— because it’s true.

The spin should be recognized for what it is, but simply dismissing it as 'business as usual, nothing to see here' whenever it's convenient (aka: when it's directed at one's political opponents) is the other side of the extreme — Tzeentch

Oh it’s definitely not business as usual. But I think we all know we’re well beyond that.

From my perspective, the Republicans put this train in motion, starting with Palin and the tea party (maybe even the Contract with America) and McConnell’s Senate shenanigans. Their media hasn’t helped; in their attempt to justify their unpopular agenda they’ve had to undermine truth and science and mathematics and reality far more than Dems.

The democrats are spineless corporatists and bureaucrats, but as similar as both parties really are I don’t see them as equal either— they’re not the ones that took us off the rails. So I’m certainly biased in that way — but I think I’m correct to be.

It does appear to me as downplaying - at least, when we consider the probable reaction if the opposite had happened. — Tzeentch

It’ll always appear as downplaying. Take a look at January 6th. What’s that, exactly? I myself don’t think it’s what the democrats make it out to be — but it’s also not what the republicans try to spin it as.

If Trump supporters were burning Teslas, I wouldn’t like it. I don’t like it now. But I would be pushing back against those that spin it. In this case I see much exaggeration. I don’t see that many people in power — or on philosophy forums — coming out in defense of it.

because Tesla is Musk’s sacred cow, and Musk has successfully bought himself a direct line to lawmakers and regulators, we must all now pretend that this is a crime of national consequence. — Benkei

Exactly. It’s just hilarious to watch. The spineless, principle-less, fact-free partisans are such fantastic hypocrites it’s quite incredible.

January 6th: patriots peacefully protesting.
Tesla cars destroyed: domestic terrorism.

I’m not in favor of destroying Teslas. I don’t like seeing it, and I don’t think it’s great strategy (although Tesla shares ARE plummeting). It’s the hypocrisy that I get a kick out of.

Two guys that shrug at January 6th and defend a genocide walk into a bar…